NYC, PRR & B&O: Where did they meet?

I don't know of any places where they shared general roundhouses.   I think all the RRs that served Cincinnati used a common roundhouse for servicing the passenger locos.   These 3 did  use Cinci Union Terminal along with a bunch of other mostly southern RRs.  

NYC and PRR shared a train from Elmira NY I think to a power plant.   Pennsy ran it for a week, and then NYC ran it for a week I think.   This is described in the book "Pennsy Elmira Branch"

From Pittsburgh to Rochester PA, PRR ran on the north side of the Ohio River, and P&LE (NYC Subsidiary) ran on the South side of the river.    B&O has some trackage rights on the P&LE and used if for Freight.

It is much easier to find places where they interchanged or crossed.

@prrjim posted:

It is much easier to find places where they interchanged or crossed.

Interesting. Where were these areas located?

I believe the short answer is that the NYC, PRR and B&O all served Cleveland, Ohio.

MELGAR

Of course, St. Louis and Chicago were common terminal cities of those 3 railroads featuring scheduled passenger service thereto/from.   In Chicago they did not share a common station, however.

Ohio was a 'pinch point' for those three railroads in their principal route structure serving the northern east coast cities to midwest gateways, like STL and CHI. 

And the PRR, B&O and NYC also were there the class 1 roads that served the steel town only second to Pittsburgh in steel production of Youngstown, Ohio.

Ron

All three served Buffalo and Rochester, NY at one time.  AFAIK they didn’t share anything in Rochester as all had their own passenger stations. Not sure about Buffalo, maybe some trackage.

Pete

Just about any major city in the northeast was served by at least two of them.    Look at the some of the older USGS maps available on line for areas you are interested in.   

Connellsville PA is a smaller town with some interchange.    It was dominated by B&O with a big yard but Pennsy came through and interchanged on a line called the PRR "Southwest Branch" which was part of the monongehela Division.    Branch is misleading.    this line was a major coal producer and had many branches all over the area.    It also had a major yard in Youngwood PA.

The Union RR in the Pittsburgh area served a number of the Steel mills around the area and down the Monongehela valley.    I think it interchanged with the P&LE (NYC), PRR, and B&O who all came through the area.    B&O also had a lot of presence in the areas south of Pittsburgh and then with purchase of the BR&P, the area up through New Castle and then over to Buffalo and Rochester.

For perhaps a really close concentration, steel mill areas are places where you will see major roads very close together.  The following blueprint shows the Carnegie Steel (now U.S. Steel), Edgar Thomson  Works in Braddock, just outside Pittsburgh.  If you look closely, the PRR runs across the top, the B&O straight through the middle of the mill site, and the Pittsburgh McKeesport & Youghiogheny (as subsidiary of the P&LE, so a subsidiary of a subsidiary of the NYC) towards the bottom, and you can also see the Union RR in there for good measure.

Andy

New York City was also served by all three. For a period from WWI to 1926, B&O passenger trains shared Penn Station with PRR. This was an earlier "transition era:" from wood to steel, and saturated to super-heated steam

Paging through my 1948 RR atlas, looking for a smaller burg, more feasible to model than a big city. North Vernon, Indiana, was served by all 3. B&O Louisville sleepers were switched in and out of St. Louis trains there. Sandusky, Ohio, was also served by all 3. Columbus, Ohio, had those three plus C&O and N&W. Possibly Dayton, Ohio, as well. Can't tell if one unlabeled line is NYC.

@Andy Hummell posted:

For perhaps a really close concentration, steel mill areas are places where you will see major roads very close together.  The following blueprint shows the Carnegie Steel (now U.S. Steel), Edgar Thomson  Works in Braddock, just outside Pittsburgh.  If you look closely, the PRR runs across the top, the B&O straight through the middle of the mill site, and the Pittsburgh McKeesport & Youghiogheny (as subsidiary of the P&LE, so a subsidiary of a subsidiary of the NYC) towards the bottom, and you can also see the Union RR in there for good measure.

Andy

Hi Andy, Youngstown was the western terminus of the P&LE.  I seem to recall seeing their A2a Berk on the Eastside in the early 50's.  After the PC merger the P&LE seek its independence and in April 1970 got it's first victory when it was excluded from the Conrail system.  Then in Feb. 79 the PC announced the sale of the P&LE Railroad to the " Pittsburgh and Lake Erie Company" again becoming completely independent.

We also had the Erie>

Ron

Lots of great information here. Andy, I especially appreciate the blueprint photos. Thank you.

Ken, I saw you mentioned Columbus, OH. During my research I came across a site called "Columbus Railroads", seems like it goes in-depth about the railroads that served this city plus some info about its interurban lines. I'll link it here:

http://www.columbusrailroads.com

Keep the responses coming, I think this thread could be a great resource for other modelers.

Add to the list the Center Street Crossing on the East side of Youngstown near Struthers, Ohio. This is where the B&O crossed the PRR and the NYC and P&LE joined end-to-end , along with the Erie RR, alongside Republic Steel's huge complex which also had its own locomotives. I was told that N&W also had trackage rights here. Just east of the crossing was P&LE's huge Gateway hump yard and also PRR's Hazelton Yard.

In times past, this crossing was a manual affair and a man would come out of a shanty with a flag (a light at night) of a specific color for each railroad to proceed over the crossing in turn. This area was very complex.

In modern times, Republic Steel is gone and the junction has been totally rebuilt and is now automated with signals and improved trackage. Even the Center Street bridge over the junction has been replaced.

But it was great place to railfan carefully and still has some appeal, although the neighborhood is pretty dicey.

Sorry but I have no photos but I'm sure they can be searched.   Don Francis

@prrjim posted:

Just about any major city in the northeast was served by at least two of them.    Look at the some of the older USGS maps available on line for areas you are interested in. 

Connellsville PA is a smaller town with some interchange.    It was dominated by B&O with a big yard but Pennsy came through and interchanged on a line called the PRR "Southwest Branch" which was part of the monongehela Division.    Branch is misleading.    this line was a major coal producer and had many branches all over the area.    It also had a major yard in Youngwood PA.

The Union RR in the Pittsburgh area served a number of the Steel mills around the area and down the Monongehela valley.    I think it interchanged with the P&LE (NYC), PRR, and B&O who all came through the area.    B&O also had a lot of presence in the areas south of Pittsburgh and then with purchase of the BR&P, the area up through New Castle and then over to Buffalo and Rochester.

Growing up in Connellsville as a young lad during the early Fifties, it was easy to learn your train alphabet (B&O, WM, P&LE, P&WV, PRR).

WT Co. ? I think all 3 were there at some point. I think?

@das boot posted:

Growing up in Connellsville as a young lad during the early Fifties, it was easy to learn your train alphabet (B&O, WM, P&LE, P&WV, PA).

By PA do you mean Ma and Pa, or PRR?  Did the Ma and Pa go that far west?

Mike

The MA&PA did not go anywhere near Connellsville - they stayed on the East side of the mountains.    I assume he means PRR.  

@prrjim posted:

The MA&PA did not go anywhere near Connellsville - they stayed on the East side of the mountains.    I assume he means PRR. 

You are correct, I did a PRR edit on my above post, thanks.

There was the Monongahela Railway in Brownsville, PA.  It was owned by PRR, B&O and P&LE (NYC Subsidiary).  Interchanged traffic with all three.

Farther south, Vincennes, Indiana is a small town served by all three, plus the L&N! For the big cities, there is Louisville, KY (during the transition era, NYC reached Louisville via trackage rights on the B&O, switching to the PRR in 1966, ahead of the merger). And East St. Louis, IL, with passenger trains continuing to St. Louis, MO.

I'm with @Don Francis and @PRRronbh. Gotta go with Youngstown, OH on this one. The B&O, PRR, and Erie stations still stand in Youngstown. The P&LE Gateway Yard Tower still stands in Struthers. There are also round tables in Struthers and Youngstown (Briar Hill) that are abandoned but still there. The busiest intersection in the country was there for a bit near the Center Street bridge. There's also some railroad related structures over there down near Federal Street but it's not easily accessible so I haven't done much investigating yet.

I've read many responses mentioning the P&LE. As an additional question, what types of motive power could be seen on this line, aside from the A-2 Berks and H-10 Mikados? As I understand it, the P&LE was a subsidiary of the NYC throughout the 40s - 50s; did Niagaras, Hudsons, or Mohawks make regular trips along this stretch of railroad?

@Don Francis posted:

Add to the list the Center Street Crossing on the East side of Youngstown near Struthers, Ohio. This is where the B&O crossed the PRR and the NYC and P&LE joined end-to-end , along with the Erie RR, alongside Republic Steel's huge complex which also had its own locomotives. I was told that N&W also had trackage rights here. Just east of the crossing was P&LE's huge Gateway hump yard and also PRR's Hazelton Yard.

Don are you from the Youngstown Ohio area??

Ron

Yes, Youngstown had all of them there including Erie Lackawanna and C&O, along with NYC/P&:E, B&O, and PRR.

@PRRronbh, I'm not from Youngstown, but once visited a relative in Mineral Ridge, which is a suburb of Youngstown.

My  main interest in the area was in railfanning. I live in western Pennsylvania near Franklin and always have an interest in history and old maps.
I also worked in the track department of the Erie Lackawanna in the mid-1970's, on the 2nd district which bypassed Youngstown to the north. Since Youngstown was not in my district I had no knowledge of it in any tangible way except reading and railfanning.

I also spent the night once in Gateway Yard legally in the midst of a special move. Nothing was going on there in the mid-eighties due to the decline of the steel industry.

Later on I was asked by my  then shortline employer to walk some other trackage around Youngstown to evaluate it for a potential bid to operate it, but the bid was not successful. It was an interesting exploration though.

So the short story would be that although I was not intimately connected with area I had more than a passing interest in it.     Don Francis

Dayton, Ohio was certainly a meeting point for all three at Dayton Union Station. When I went to school there in the early 80's, I remember remnants of all three - bridges, structures, etc. still showing heralds and some sort of markings. Near UD there was a bridge that still was marked for the B&O, where the B&O interchanged with NCR, near Stewart and I think Patterson, that really stood out.

They all came into Cleveland, Ohio.