NYO&W Layout - Utica Division

Hi Chris, I'm Peter and I'm and O&W fan, too.  There are about 6-8 of us who regularly post here, too. I'm sure they'll chime in when they see this.

I like your plan.  The O&W had a great story and great scenery to model. Are you going to model the main Middletown station?

You did the right thing, you got O&W equipment when it was available. I have the F3 and the NW-2.

These pics were taken at our modular display this past December.

Welcome to the OGR Forum!

Peter

Another O&W fan here...please keep us updated regarding your progress. I'm currently in the midst of reading Bob Mohowski's fine book about the O&W's milk business:

Bob

I'm a fan as well

That's an interesting theme for a layout. I just wondered if you might want to consider something like this instead of the double-wyes junction. Possibly a bit more railroady-style, it maintains all your multiple routing possibilities, easier to operate a double-oval or dogbone route, and eliminates some S-curves. I haven't determined if it fits your space exactly, it probably needs tweaking or possibly simplifying.  

Peter - Very nice pictures!!! I will not be modeling middletown, but have not picked a particular station yet. The Munnsville station, from Branchline Trains, has peaked my interest, but I will most likely pick one of the rural stations along the line from Middletown to Cadosia.

The only model I bought when it was available, was the Camelback. The Mohawk is courtesy of my Dad who doesn't have the space for a layout, but is an avid O&W fan. The NW2 came from the Old and Weary Car shop, and the F3 was an ebay purchase. I've been lucky in finding them after fact as I was in college when most of them came out and couldn't afford it.

Bob - I will certainly keep you guys posted on my progress! I have that same book, along with Martin Robert Karig III's "Hard Coal and Coal Cars" of my nightstand. I've been alternating between those for reading material and ideas.

Dennis - Always nice to know another fan!

marker - Ah yes, the flying diesel corps.... one of my favorite O&W stories.

Thats an interesting idea Ace...

I'll have to give that on try with the spacing and see how it works. Thanks for the input!

Chris,

Another O&W fan here. I'm originally from upstate NY. I grew up about 25 miles from "The Great Chocolate Wreck", but it happened when I was way too young to remember, let alone get some chocolate!

Do keep us posted on your progress. It sounds like you have things well thought out. Do be careful with the wide radii curves, They look fantastic, but have a nasty habit of chewing up a great deal of real estate, especially in a small room.

Just to wet your whistle, here's a recent shot from my modular layout.

Chris

LVHR

Chris,

I have been torn with that exact thought... i'm lost between operational capability and picturesque curves along the river and mountains. 

My own background... I grew up in Fishkill, NY with my parents, and their families, both from Binghamton, NY. My family owns a mile of the old roadbed in North Norwich/Smyrna at a camp ground.

Very nice picture!!! I can't wait to be posting my own!

I myself am getting ready to build a NYO&W layout myself sure wish I could find the MTH diesels.  My garage boarders the right of way in Lakewood on the Scranton division.  Please keep sharing your progress and ideas this is my first stab at this so any help will be appreciated

Chris.....here's a video on an O&W work train.....that I made up from various MTH offerings

Peter

Nyo&w fan - glad to be making to first step with a partner in crime. I'll be keeping pics and progress updated. It's going to be a few months before any real progress is made, I have a concrete basement that needs some painting and outlets and such moved... paint needs to wait until temps come up unfortunately.

Peter - You're killing me... I have the bobber caboose and box car... never got the derrick and accompanying car. Nice NYC rolling by.

Chris,

Ah yes, I see you are more than a little familiar with Chenango County. The county seat is Norwich, site of the last bastion of steam on the O&W. My parents rented a house about 3 properties (~75'?) from the old roadbed for a year. I remember the work train coming through and pulling the rails. Sad day, although I did not understand at the time. Too young.

You can probably get away with O72 as your biggest curves, and use slightly tighter stuff in the yards, say O54. MTH Passenger trains (Premier) would be the biggest cars you would have. Most O&W stuff is in the 40' range, so tighter curves won't look too bad.

Chris

LVHR

Chris,

I'm slightly jealous of the fact you even got to witness it... I'm only 27 and learning all of this second hand. I actually have that premier passenger set, and an extra B unit for the ABA , to run as the longest train on my road. I'll have some tinkering time and will definitely try scaling the turns down to see how it looks on paper.

I look forward to corresponding with all you guys as the project progresses!

Well, here is my first revision based off comments. I need to connect a few straight sections, and put easements in, but reducing my turns down to 72's does save quite a bit of benchwork, and using Ace's input, I really like to wye turn a lot better.

There's one unique piece of O&W equipment that will only be made if one makes it himself.....heater cars.

The O&W had no AC for their summer passenger trains.....open the windows! Therefore, the FTs and F3s could head summer passenger consists.  The F3s did not have steam generators, but had the controls to run them.  The O&W re-built 2 of the 4-8-2 Mountain tenders as heater cars.  The F3s would head winter passenger consists. The FTs, without the controls, could not.

Peter

Peter,

You are quite right: Those were very unique. I've given some thought to scratch building a heater car, just to see if I could do it.

And while we are on the subject of O&W passenger trains, The MTH versions, while impressive, are not quite correct. The NYO&W had no money to spring for AC in any of their passenger cars. So all the cars you see that have the clearstory missing on one side of the car are wrong. (The cover hides the AC ducting.) They also had a large fleet of wooden passenger cars with 4 wheel trucks. They did have some 6 wheel trucks under some passenger cars, but not very many.

Chris

LVHR

Chris

LVHR

Peter,

Ah yes, the heater car. I project I wouldn't mind tackling once I have things up an running. There are a couple HO versions floating around on ebay right now.

Chris,

I thought the roofs looked off, but couldn't put my finger on it. I knew about the A/C, don't know why it didn't cross my mind. I'm hoping to do some model tuning/rebuilding once I've got the tracks down to get things a little more correct. I won't complain about some slightly incorrect production models though... with the exception of the "Mountaineer" knock off mth did a few years ago.

Yeah, that Mountaineer Hudson just looked too weird! That was one big reason for passing on the set.

Suggestion for you: Not exactly sure what you have in mind, but how about the Lyon Brook Trestle on the curve in the upper right corner? You would need to compress things quite abit, but it might work. Of course, just about everything is compressed on our models.

Chris

LVHR

Chris:

Do you have the Mohowski O&W diesel book? It provides great insight into the motive power strategy of the railroad:

Bob

I would like to remind all NYO&W fans that Weaver is thinking of building The Mountaineer please let them know if you are interested in it . The more the better chance we got of them making it!

Bob - I do have that book! It's a great read and an excellent reference! My O&W library consists of:

NYO&W in the Diesel Age by Robert Mohowski

Hard Coal and Coal Cars by Martin Robert Karig III

NYO&W Milk Cans, Mixed Trains, and Motor Cars by Robert Mohowski

The NYO&W Postcard History Series by Joe Bux and NYO&WRHS

The NYO&W Northern Division by John Taibi

O&W, The Long Life and Slow Death of the NYO&W by William F. Helmer

The Final Years: NYO&W by John Krause and Ed Crist

NYO&W in Color by Paul Lubliner

and a small collection of printed material from the NYO&WRHS of various structures and an FT or F3, I can't remember which, plan and material I received with a print.

Working on the reference library, so if anyone has anything else to suggest, please chime in!

Chris,

I was planning on a trestle for my outer line across the liftout (maybe put some hinges on it and make it a swing out?) and debating extending it a little further in to the benchwork. The O&W had enough trestles I definitely want to include one. And after looking at some pictures of it and given it's location, Lyon Brook would be appropriate.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions!

Thanks for the heads up! Is there any email address inparticular I'd need to respond too or just the general Weaver e-mail?

Attention NYO&W FANS!!

I found the link!!!!!!

Thanks Dave,

e-mail away!

Chris,

I'm going to presume since you mentioned a chimney and waterheater, that this is to be a basement layout. Let me give you some things to ponder on before you jump off the cliff and start building.

Do you have any water issues in the basement?

Are there any pipes overhead? If so, how ill you access them if there is a problem?

Access to the furnace and waterheater?

What about heating or cooling?

Are the walls finished? The ceiling?

How is the electrical supply to the area?

I would try to address these items before installing any benchwork.

Not trying to put a damper on things, far from it. Just seeing if you thought about dodging a few bullets before putting the trains up.

One more thing: How about a backdrop? Or at least painting the walls? Doing as much of that as possible beforehand makes life a whole lot easier later.

Chris

LVHR

Not a damper at all! I wasn't planning to begin construction for a few months, so I could complete several of the projects you've listed and give me time to iron out the design and seek outside input.

Basement is dry. It is poured concrete walls and floor. The property is very well drained. It's painted a disgusting blue right now, so white waterproof paint is going up on the walls and gray epoxy on the floors to brighten things up.

No piping is located over any of the layout.

The water heater is on the left side of the chimney and wye runs around it. The Furnace is about 2 ft below the chimney and the track runs between it and furnace. I've kept the benchwork and track minimal through there so it can be removed in the event of maintenance.

The basements stays mild both during the winter and summer... I don't foresee any issues regarding temperature. 

I'm planning on keep the basement relatively unfinished, just some fresh paint as mentioned above.  The other side of the basements is slightly larger and is used mainly for storage shelving, laundry, and wood storage for the fireplace upstairs.

There is plenty of electrical access and capacity, and the ability to move outlets where needed.

A backdrop will definitely be needed, and i'll be hunting through scenic backdrops of the catskills.

I'm really in the research and refinement mode right now.

Thanks for the suggestions and thoughts Chris!

Very nice concept, the O&W is a very interesting railroad, rare to get a lot of info and pictures of them in the Scranton area.  They were the first of the anthracite railroads to go under, in the early 50's I believe.  Please show more of your work!

Chris,

Excellent! Since you have a decent idea of where the layout is going, you may want to get any wiring you need for additional lighting roughed in. If you are not comfortable and knowledgable, hire an electrician!

I'm going to presume the ceiling is unfinished. Consider painting the entire ceiling flat black! It does an absolutely wonderful job of hiding all the distractions while keeping them in plain view. The emphasis will be on the layout, not what's above it.

I'm not a fan of painting directly on concrete walls, but to each his own. It's your railroad! Consider painting the walls Colbalt Blue. I know it sounds crazy, but it really works. Once you have the darker blue, you can fade in the lighter shades as you get closer to the horizon. See the pictures below for what I did with my room. Click on the picture for a larger image. BTW, you can get LOTS of excellent advice over on the scenery section of this Forum.

Chris

LVHR

Chris.....here's another of my O&W videos.......I call this the "Mountainer meets a New York Central express milk & mail train.

Peter

Passenger service ceased in '53 and unfortunately the entire road was done in '57.

Bob

Peter

Those were two way cool consists. I could see them lugging through the mountains in my minds eye. The O&W was on my short list to model before I began my current one if I were to go hi-rail but I despaired of ever finding enough equipment appropriately decorated for the road. You proved me wrong. To my way of thinking, this road was the premier East Coast mountain railroad with the Western Maryland a close second.

Chris

I hope we are all posted on the progress of the layout plans. 

First it was the Harper's Ferry layout and now this. It must be a conspiracy to have me tear up what I just finished.

Chris,

I am not a fan of painted concrete either, but seeing as one of the prior owners decided to, I'm limited to sanding the whole basement down or painting over it. And yes, the ceiling is unfinished.

That turned out great! I really like that idea for the sky.

I had to make a trip to NYC and the Hudson Valley Thurs.Fri and made a trip to the Old and Weary Car Shop in Tappan while I was driving through. I picked up two O&W refrigerator cars while I was there and talked to Al. He said they have plans to do two Waddell Coal car numbers, two other coal hopper numbers, and possibly 8300 series cabooses this year. Just an fyi for anyone looking to add cars to their fleets. I also emailed Weaver, and they got back to me saying they are leaning towards producing the Mountaineer, but are still gauging interest.

Peter,

Very nice! My jealousy continues, can't wait to get building.

While not painted in O&W colors, I have always thought the RMT BEEF B unit was the right length for a heater car kitbash. The B unit is scale width and height and with the right paint job could be an easy makeover ala O&W. And the steam generator exhaust stacks are already there too!

You can take out the motors and have it freewheeling.

Thanks.

Walter M. Matuch

Or you could take out the motor and sell it as a dummy 

Walt,

I like the way you think!

Chris,

One more consideration: How likely are you to move? What happens to the layout in that circumstance? There is a thread over on the main forum that is discussing this now. You may want to read what has happened with other people.Read about it here

Chris

For those of you who are still trying to acquire the MTH RailKing freight set from several years ago, there is one on da Bay now. Search under MTH NYO&W. I don't know the seller. I'm just pointing it out.

Chris

LVHR

I just read the whole post, but didn't see the way in and out of the layout. What method are you using to get inside?

I'm building a long-term project that was an HO article in Kalmbach's Building and Structures book. It's NYO&W classic Victorian station that was scratch built entirely in styrene. I scaled it up in the computer and am building it also in styrene. It's 3/4 done, but has been sitting on the shelf while I build the actual layout on which it will be placed.

It's going to be the main train station for the layout. There will also be some smaller "whistle-stop" stations other places on the line, but this one's going to be front and center, and right in everyone's face near the control panel.

Once the railroad running, I'm going to finish this up. There's a large, standing-seamed roof covering a passenger area on both sides, and I'm going to install floors and some interior details. The painting is going to take hours since the Tudor design has different colors on the exposed framing than on the siding that fills the gaps. I also have to glaze all those windows...

Good luck on your design. I'm using 100% Ross track and switches and really like it. It's scale looking, but forgiving.

Chris,

I had not taken that into consideration... some redesigning may be in the works. Thanks for the link! I checked out that thread, lot of stuff to think about in there. 

Trainman,

That is a beautiful structure! You'll have to post some pictures when it is finished.

In the layouts current state, entry into the will be courtesy of liftouts on the right hand side of the layout.

Moving is definitely a major factor here and would hate to have to destroy something I'll be putting that much effort in to. I'll be offshore for the next month, so I'll have to play around with the design in my off time to make it "moving friendly". New plans forthcoming...