O Scale Locomotive Guide: Pacifics

These really look like a lot of work.  Great photos.

That's a lot of Pacifics!!!

I didn't see the Williams Pacifics mentioned.  The Samhongsa brass they imported is very nice also.  Here's one I repainted into ACL livery, it's fast becoming my favorite steamer:

Once again thank you Ted

Clem k

Thank you Ted for taking your time to post these informative and enjoyable post.

I'm sure many of us here on the forum as well as myself look forward to them.

One of the prettiest of them all:

K-Line Chicago & Alton

Ted, Thank you for posting these threads on different Steam Engines.  They are very enjoyable for all of us.  It shows that you have put a lot of work to gather all this information.  Great job!!

 I have 4 Pacifics in my collection and all Southern Crescent Limited.  Theses are my “Ladies of the South”…

1.  Lionel Legacy Southern Crescent Limited, Cab#1393

2. MTH Premier Southern Crescent Limited Proto Sounds 2, Cab#1395

3. MTH Premier Southern Queen Crescent Limited, Cab#6688

MTH Premier Queen Crescent Limited Double Headed with my MTH Premier Crescent Limited...

4. MTH RailKing Crescent Limited with Proto Sounds 1, Cab#1396

Great threads Ted - many thanks for posting them.

Don't have a Pacific at present having traded or sold our MTH Crescent & early Lionel K4 pictured here and a Legacy PRR.

Nice work compiling this,  and you have two of my all time favorites that I own from K-Line being a Florida guy and growing up next to the FEC mainline in Ft. Lauderdale:

ACL K-1431 Palmetto Limited set

FEC K-1433 Florida Limited Set

Sunset/3rd Rail also offered some beautiful Souther Pacific "P Class" Pacifics. 

Here is one you won't see very often:

A more common version of the same kit:

Same kit, but somehow it never gets finished:

Good stuff Bob!  What 's the kits maker(s)?

Here's a Seaboard streamlined Pacific I'd like to see done accurately:

Hey Everybody

Thanks for all the posts.  It is great to see so many pictures of O scale Pacifics on your layouts.

I'm glad that our native Floridian commented on the K-Line ACL and FEC USRA light Pacific models.  The light Pacific was the most produced USRA passenger locomotive.  ACL 1504 has been on display since retirement and was named a National Historic Mechanical Engineering Landmark by the American Society of Mechanical Engineers.

Many feel the engine was named Pacific for the Missouri Pacific.  I have a hard time understanding why one was never done.  I considered repainting the Southern version but never got to that.  I now wish MTH would do a 2 rail Missouri Pacific Lines 4-6-2.

While the MoPac cabs are distinctive, I think the PS-4 could easily be repainted to closely resemble that.

 I think the PS-4 could easily be repainted to closely resemble that.

I agree Bob.

A Pacific is on the list of must have steamers.  Tried to buy an MTH one last month but the bidding went out of control and I backed out.

I did see a few 3rd Rail Pacifics at that auction, very nice and they brought BIG money!

Thank you for all the hard work on the post.  A lot of great information here.

I did see a few 3rd Rail Pacifics at that auction, very nice and they brought BIG money!

86TA

Did you note which 3rd rail Pacifics were at that auction?  They have done quite a few but I have never seen a list.

Ted-

A SP P-10: $1,900

I linked it for you.  Though, there isn't much to see: it's in the original wrapper.

The other Pacific I was thinking about wasn't one-It was a Mountain.  There was so much 3rd Rail stuff I mixed it up-good problem to have!

I finally snagged a Lionel Legacy scale Pennsy K4 #3667 so my stretched version will probably go into the Bay. I wish Lionel or MTH would make a K5.

My favorite was the Northern Pacific Class Q-4 though Q-6 locomotives.

Nice feature Ted--Thanks.

One of my five SRR Pacifics that I favor is Weaver's model of the Southern Ps-4 #1380:  

"The Tennessean" [streanlined at Spencer Shops ]

The Weaver 49er (picture taken from a JDS Video of my upgraded engine).

Thanks.   Potentially very useful.  Certainly fun to look through.  I had the K-Line B&O long ago.  It was an okay loco - never one of my favorites, but bery good looking.  

One thing I find very interesting is the big difference in size between the Lionel Blue Comet and Southern Crescent: both Pacifics but quite a difference in size.  I understand that, even so, the Lionel model is a tiny bit smaller than the prototype, too.  I like both locos a lot.

Thanks, Ted, for another great picture / data summary and reference posting - this time for Pacifics.  Your effort to assemble and share this information with the Forum is much appreciated.

The first locomotive I purchased

Mike CT.

Like Wow • Great thread with excellent photography.

This is what the Forum is all about.

Model Railroaders, sharing their skills, with members.

So much to learn...........

Cheers from The Detroit & Mackinac Railway

Gary

I hope you don't mind Sam, I borrowed your photo.

John

why manufacturers continually favor the blue repaint of the B&O P7's over the original green livery has always been a mystery to me...

still waiting...gary

My favorite Reading & Northern 425.

Dewey and Allan

Thanks for the photos of the Weaver streamlined Pacifics.

Mike

Is that the Lionel 6-38025?

For those interested in the scale fidelity of the various models of the PRR K4 Wikepedia has a dimensioned drawing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_K4s

If anyone has links to dimensioned scale drawings of other Pacific type locomotives please feel free to post them here.

My favorite was the Northern Pacific Class Q-4 though Q-6 locomotives.

J Daddy

The Northern Pacific was one of the first railroads to adopt the Pacific as its premier passenger locomotive.  The Q through Q4 classes were delivered between 1903 and 1910.  They were of similar dimensions with 69 inch drivers and light axle loads. Several Q-3s were donated to NP towns at the end of steam.  The 2152 from Auburn awaits restoration in Toppenish.

The Q-5 and Q-6 Pacifics were much larger locomotives delivered in 1920-22.  The MTH Heavy Pacific would make a good starting point for modeling a NP Q-5 or Q-6.  Jim Fredrickson chose this shot of 2261 and her crack crew for the cover of Railroad Shutterbug.

Ted, Thanks for posting. One question and use the photo below a s a reference is why did the K4's boiler  narrow somewhat in the front, Aerodynamics?

Steve

aside from a few one-off designs (eg: UP 49er, B&O Cincinnatian, etc), aerodynamics didn't seem to be a very high priority in US steam locomotive design.

tapered boilers are usually designed to accommodate a larger firebox/ grate area or in essence the front isn't narrowed so much as the rear is widened.

cheers...gary

Note that Pennsy, and others, used a Belpaire design fire box.   Most noted is the honched corners ahead of the cab.  

There are probably more than 2000 stay bolts holding the fire box together. The Belpaire design was an attempt at using a standard size and length of stay bolt. Keep in mind these boilers/fireboxes were rebuilt often.

Thanks Ted for the insight on the Q class pacifics. I have spent countless hours studying the pictures of Mcgee and Nixon...

I was in Livingston Montana and there was still piles of pictures that have not been documented from Mcgee at the Yellowstone Gate Way Museum  in Livingston. They Have tons of Northern Pacific documentation in the basement that is still available to look at by the public.

Reading this book by Richard Green lead me on a "Spiritual Trip" to Montana...

Livingston is trapped in time... and has not changed in 50 years.

Ted:  Thanx for the treatise on model Pacifics.  They were certainly "universal" engines in that they worked on nearly every railroad you can think of.  I look forward to reading another examination of another class of engine;  Perhaps the lowly Mikado would be a good subject.

Looking at my roster I do have a couple of engines that did not get mentioned.  First, back at least 15 years ago, K-Line offered a slightly underscale Pacific that was painted in several liveries.  I chose one in Milwaukee Road's "Hiawatha colors", although it was a conventional engine.  The Milwaukee's own, shop-built Pacifics seemed to be pretty close to the overall dimensions of this engine, so place next to scale engines, including my Weaver Milwaukee F6a. it looks about right.  I changed out the trailing truck to the inside frame "Devoe" trailing truck, installed TMCC with speed control and it's one of my favorite engines, although assigned to 2nd class type passenger trains.  The Milwaukee operated about five or six of these dressed-up Pacifics, before they actually applied streamlined shrouding to six of them.

Another neat engine was Weaver's streamlined C&NW Pacific, often called a "Yellow Jacket"  This engine, too, was used on less than the top name trains on the C&NW.  Weaver's model in brass was a very good reproduction of the engine and it gets regular use on my railroad.

These are the only Pacifics regularly used on my layout.

Paul Fischer

I only have three Pacifics - a K-Line semi-scale Milwaukee Road engine like the one Paul describes in the above post, a K-Line semi-scale Pennsylvania Torpedo that I bought to pull my Rail Chief tinplate set, and the Weaver brass John Wilkes in the photo below. This  was built in the 90's in coordination with MTH - Weaver built the locomotive and MTH sold a matching set of passenger cars. It was built with the original QSI version of Proto-Sound, but I converted it to Proto-2 several years ago. I didn't replace the Seuthe smoke unit, as you can see from the stream of smoke. The John Wilkes is similar to the Black Diamond, but differs in several details.

Steve asked

One question and use the photo below a s a reference is why did the K4's boiler  narrow somewhat in the front, Aerodynamics?

Gary answered

tapered boilers are usually designed to accommodate a larger firebox/ grate area or in essence the front isn't narrowed so much as the rear is widened.

Steve

To expand on the response from Gary, many locomotives had tapered boilers.  New locomotive types from the first decade of the 20th century like the Pacific and Mikado had a trailing truck to support a wide fire box below and behind the last set of drivers.  From the tube sheet in front of the fire box the boiler tubes and superheater flues carried the combustion gasses forward to the front tube sheet and the smoke box.  The hottest gas temperatures were at the fire box and the most water space surrounded the fire box and the rear end of the tubes to absorb the most heat and provide for the circulation of water.  There is less vigorous boiling toward the front of the tubes and flues as the gas temperature drops and less water circulation in needed.  Tapering the boiler also reduces weight over the heavy cylinder casting and helps to keep a locomotive balanced.

J Daddy

There are a bunch of good sources of reference material on the NP. Thanks for posting the photo and info from Livingston.

I hope you have the second volume, The Pacific Northwest Railroads of McGee and Nixon.  It has more on the NP as well as the GN, Milwaukee, UP, SP&S and Spokane International.  A good variety of Pacific type locomotives is to be found in its pages.

The Northern Pacific was an important early adopter of the Pacific type and more photos and diagrams are becoming available on line.  This is a classic James Turner shot of a Q-6 Pacific departing Seattle with the Smith Tower, the King County Courthouse and King Street Station in the background.  See the NPRHA web site for much, much more.

http://www.nprha.org/Pages/Research-Sources.aspx

back at least 15 years ago, K-Line offered a slightly underscale Pacific that was painted in several liveries.  I chose one in Milwaukee Road's "Hiawatha colors", although it was a conventional engine.  The Milwaukee's own, shop-built Pacifics seemed to be pretty close to the overall dimensions of this engine, so place next to scale engines, including my Weaver Milwaukee F6a. it looks about right.  I changed out the trailing truck to the inside frame "Devoe" trailing truck, installed TMCC with speed control and it's one of my favorite engines, although assigned to 2nd class type passenger trains.

Paul

I stuck with just Scale locomotives to limit the scope of these articles.  However, the smallest O scale pacific in diecast is the USRA light 4-6-2 and many locomotives, like the Milwaukee and early NP pacifics were smaller than that.  Where did you get the inside bearing trailing truck?  That is a great way to backdate the look of a light Pacific or Mikado.

Another neat engine was Weaver's streamlined C&NW Pacific, often called a "Yellow Jacket"  This engine, too, was used on less than the top name trains on the C&NW.  Weaver's model in brass was a very good reproduction of the engine and it gets regular use on my railroad.

Brass locomotives make the less common types of locomotives available to modeler railroaders.  But with numerous small production runs documenting them all is quite a task!  If you get the chance, any photos of your K-line or Weaver brass Pacifics would be much appreciated. 

I look forward to reading another examination of another class of engine;  Perhaps the lowly Mikado would be a good subject.

In this series 14 wheeled locomotives came first with 2-8-4 Berkshires, 4-8-2 Mountains and 4-6-4 Hudsons.  With 12 wheeled 4-6-2 Pacifics done covering 2-8-2 Mikados next would be logical.  Mikado's might have been common but I would hardly call them lowly.  They were the backbone of almost every major railroad's freight operations.

The John Wilkes is similar to the Black Diamond, but differs in several details.

Southwest Hiawatha

Thanks for adding another locomotive to our list.