Vision Big Boy returned from Lionel - report 03 Feb > Part 2 - Best News Yet:

Smoke was on but low. And I find the smoke takes a little time to ramp up. After 5 minutes I'm chocking. 

Rudy,

 

I really appreciate your response. I never had the opportunity to see or hear a real Big Boy when they were still in operation, so I based my original comment on a recording I have and which I have attached. I have heard other recordings, in videos, where the whistle sound appeared to vary more than the one I have included here.

 

My new Big Boy, although it has very a slight quillable effect, it is not close to what I hear on the recordings. But then again, it may be a matter of perception 

 

Notwithstanding all of the above, I am glad I bought the VL Big Boy, and I can hardly wait for the day (very soon, I am sure) when it will run smoothly.

 

Thanks to all who have chimed in!

 

Alex

Thanks Marty for the video. I didn't hear a lot of varience in the pitch/tone. Were you sliding the whistle lever on your legacy remote slowly? As stated by Rudy...not as noticeable on this locomotive as other Lionel releases.

As slowly as I could. There are 3 variances. Again not real noticeable but definitely there. 

Admittedly, when listening to Marty's video and my recording (which I included again, shorter and more to the point) Lionel achieved the perfect tone and pitch of the whistle!

 

Alex

Marty,

 

That whistle is definitely a cut below what's in my Lionmaster Challenger, as far as quilling is concerned. If I had invested close to $2,000.00 in a Legacy engine, I'd be very disappointed in the quilling effect, no matter how prototypical it might be.

 

Regardless, thanks for sharing the video!

Funny I love it I think it's perfect .. The whistle 

My Vision Line 4004 Hooter suits me. I've also got a 4006 Lionmaster BB on the tracks. It's pretty cool too but nothing like the Vision Big Boy.

Me too. I love the deep sound of it.

I must agree that Lionel Smoke Units can be a pain,you have to be at the top of your game to keep them problem free. MTH smoke units I believe are a better unit but I would think that Lionel is aware of all problems that the BB may have and advice on how to repair it.

I'm also having some trouble with the blow-down effect: it works but does not produce anywhere near the amount of smoke as I have seen in some videos.

 

The center red LED light on the back of my tender is also not functioning anymore.  It worked fine for the first day or so, then all of a sudden ceased to operate properly.  It occasionally illuminates and flickers, but there certainly appears to be an issue.  It should remain constantly lit as do the other two red LED classification lights on the rear of the tender.

 

I'm hoping this is a simple fix, perhaps a loose wire and/or connection?  Any thoughts on the possible culprit, guys?

 

I'm heading to my LHS tomorrow to have the technician inspect, I certainly hope I do not have to send back to Lionel. 

Owing to the fact that there are a multitude of features within this locomotive and tender, during shipping it is possible things can come lose. Sounds like that is the case here, but obviously this is speculation.

 

Hope you can fix her up.

It just goes to show. Some want it pro typical and will complain because it quills too much. Some like it just the way it is because it is prototypical. I spent my money well and I am very happy with my purchase.


       

Alex just for kicks watch Bill Yates video, he briefly talks about the blowdown and how he gets it working at the 4:25 mark. Maybe a method to try if you have not.

 

http://youtu.be/Ond7dnvD3Es

 

after listening to Alex's recording I think that the quilling whistle is acceptable. In a world where we all, most of us anyways, want a product that is as realistic as possible, why would you want the whistle to not match the prototype. watching Marty's video, it sounds like the model quills just as much as the real thing did.

Don't forget that this loco is top of the line and lists at a very high price. So,let the discussions continue.

 

Bob C.

Something that maybe missed within the scope of whether these types of threads should be posted or not is, as a Lionel dealer, if my customer reports an issue with a new product it is nice to know if what they are reporting is a common problem or not. This information only helps me advise them on the next course of action. More communication is always better than less. So really in my opinion as long as these threads don't get nasty they really do need to be around.

Why is that?

 From one that purchased one, I would like to know of any problems that may exist, and if it crops up, it may not be "me" and how I operated it.

 

 

 

As far as the erratic running goes, I assume you have given it a good lubrication and then run it in for a while (assuming the locomotive doesn't appear to be damaging itself, if you know what I mean).  Sometimes I have had locomotives, from all the manufacturers, that are tight when they are new and they need to be run-in to loosen up, and sometimes re-lubed a touch even then.  Most recently this happened with a CSX diesel I bought for my son (MTH).  It would hesitate in reverse.  A little more lubricant and some slow steady running and it loosened up after about 15 minutes.  I would let it run for a while at a moderate speed before thinking that there is an issue. As to the blowdown smoke, do the gentle puff thing up the tube.  Typically I can't imagine this thing has separate smoke unit(s) for blow down.  It's probably a bubble.

 

That being said, as others have indicated, my experience with Lionel is that they are reputable folks.  You're not going to get hurt here, maybe just delayed a bit in using your new locomotive.  Good luck and use it in good health!

 

 

Yep the whistle is awesome.  What you don't get from the video is the speaker interaction between the boiler speaker and the tender speakers.  In person this creates a really cool effect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

yes,Lionel will make goog.I once sent them an h-8 Allegheny for repair which had a broken cab window piece as well. They sent me a brand new loco instead.

 

Bob C.

OK...looks like Rich did a little cleaning up of the debate between a couple of individuals.  Keep the discussion like it is and be nice to each other guys....thanks!

 

Alan

 

That is actually quite an interesting way of getting the unit started - don't put the "lid" back on until you see that the unit is producing smoke rather than just sealing it up and expecting it to work. Must try that myself.

Zett,

I tried what Bill Yates recommends (leave the cover off until the unit starts to smoke well from the fill hole and from the blowdown pipes) and it does work. However, in my case, as soon as I replaced the cover, the blowdown from the pipes stop. Hopefully, Lionel will look at this as well. Thanks for the hint!

 

RAL,

Yes, I oiled every axle and every joint with Labelle 107 oil prior to putting on the track, as has been my practice for countless years with every engine and every car.

 

Lionel Contact,

I just got off the phone with Angela (Lionel CSR), she had me run a couple more tests (w/ and w/o Odyssey) and we established that the engine is not running properly. She will be emailing me a call tag later today.

 

As has been my experience in the past three years or so with Lionel Customer Service, they are to be commended for their superb efforts. Not only have all been very pleasant on the phone, but in each instance (I believe three prior instances with other engines) they have responded promptly and solved or fixed the problems entirely satisfactorily.

 

Alex

Alex,

That's been my experience also.  They always treat me professionally and quickly resolve the issue.

 

When you get it back, let's see a video of it on your wonderful layout!  I bet it'll spank a reefer train!

 

My VL BB isn't here yet, it's killing me.... 

I have only had one call to Lionel customer service and it was also a very pleasant experience. They gave excellent assistance and the problem was resolved with only the one call. If you have to get something that has a problem, having it be a Lionel item is definitely a plus as far as we as customers are concerned.

Alex and Marty - thanks for posting the recordings.   I hear a lot of difference between the prototype and the model.   Clearly our hearing sensitivity varies from person to person.  The prototype audio recording blows me away.    Still, the model's whistle is great.

 

Regarding comments about Lionel smoke issues - all of mine are strong smokers and very reliable, and have not needed maintenance or tweeking yet.   FWIW.   -Ken

I spoke with them today, wonderful lady assisted me.  Professional and courteous, can't ask for much more.

 

That being said, it looks like I'll most likely have to return my Vision Big Boy to customer service in order for them to troubleshoot the tender classification light issue I am having. 

 

Here is what I don't understand, perhaps you guys could opine as I am not an LED/electronics guru:

 

-Upon start-up, the middle red tender light does not illuminate (it should) whilst the two red classification lights illuminate.

 

-After about 10-15 minutes of run-time, the non-functioning light begins to illuminate very slowly...until finally, it just illuminates as if it were normal.  It stays on, emitting a vibrant red glow for as long as I keep the Big Boy running.  Where it becomes interesting is when I shut down the Big Boy and kill track power: if I immediately re-initiate track power and address the Big Boy via Legacy, the red light comes on as normal (keep in mind, track power is off not more than a few seconds).  On the contrary, if I leave the layout alone for an hour or so (perhaps to run some errands), come back and decide to run some trains...the light does not illuminate upon start-up, and I'll have to wait the 10-15 minutes before the LED functions (as described above).

 

Obviously, there is power getting to the bulb, so I don't think this is a connection issue, as it eventually comes on.  Do you guys think there is a potential circuit board/more serious problem based on the aforementioned symptoms?

 

I know Lionel pays for shipping both ways on the Vision product, but would you guys send back for such a small/minor issue?  Obviously, the appearance and principle annoy me (at 2K, it should function properly), but its not as if it inhibits me from enjoying the Big Boy (all other functions perform flawlessly).

 

Any thoughts/advice? 

 

Best,

Michael

 

-

 

Yesterday I received my Big Boy back from Lionel. It now runs fine at all speeds, and everything else I could think of is OK. The blowdown is light, but sometimes it is clearly visible.

 

The repair report states “put capacitor on the motor sensor to quiet noise”. It does not specify whether the capacitor was missing and hence replaced, or if the new one is an added capacitor. Whichever the case, the problem was solved.

 

The report also states, “Added Lionel Premium Smoke Fluid.” I had JT’s Mega Steam before, and although it was fine, I think the Lionel PSF may actually result in more visible ‘steam’.

 

New issue:

When my Lionel Vision Big Boy runs over one of my Atlas turnouts (have not tried all such turnouts yet) the loco sounds go off for a second or less, and then come back. However, when the sounds come back, the volume is lower; I would guess about 2/3 as loud as before they go off. I tried the volume control, but that had no effect. To reinstate the proper volume, I have to shut down the locomotive and then restart it. No need to remove power from the track, though.

 

None of my other locomotives, diesel or steam, Lionel or MTH, do this. The Lionel locomotives have an optional 9v battery that bridges over these ‘dead’ gaps, and have installed all of them. Unfortunately, the Vision Big Boy is not designed to accept a 9v battery.

 

Has anyone else experienced this brief sound shut off, and subsequent lower volume when restored, with their new Vision Big Boys?

 

BTW, I contacted Lionel already, but there was no immediate action suggested, and I prefer not to return it to them again if at all possible.

 

Thx!

 

Alex

 

 

The dead spots are more an issue of the Atlas turnouts than of the loco. There are numerous threads on Atlas turnout deadspots and also threads on ways to fix them.

 

Why not solder jumpers to the dead rails on the turnouts?

 

Otherwise, some have posted rotating one of the tender rollers on articulateds 180 degrees changes the spacing and eliminates the problem.

 

RickO: I have already jumpered several of the dead rails on the Atlas turnouts after the factory jumpers failed, and this turnout is 100% OK. (I have 46 Atlas turnouts.)

 

RickO, HW: Agree with turning around the pickups, and will give it a try. Most definitely has to be a problem with the pickup spacing being just right (or wrong) to coincide with the as-designed dead spots.

 

HW: Yes, that was the response - ". . . works fine with Lionel turnouts."

 

Thx a lot!

 

Alex

 

My Legacy Cab Forward started doing this for awhile and a reset is the only thing that fixed it. We have Ross switches, and every switch it hit, the sound cut out, and then came back at a much lower volume.

 

Then all of a sudden, it was fine after a reset. Hasn't done it since. I have no idea what caused it to do this, or why it suddenly stopped after 1 reset, when several resets before didn't fix it.  

Make sure the track is clean .. It happens from time to time all of a sudden it will start doing it ..

Alex,

 

Same exact issue with my VL 4014.  The only difference, I am using Lionel's Fastrack system. 

 

Whenever my Big Boy runs over an O-72 turnout, the sound in the tender just goes silent for a second or so (the classification lights will occasionally turn off as well).  

 

It is most evident when you have the labor chuff intensity set to maximum (using the EFX keys).  The sound cut-off is quite noticeable in this scenario. 

 

I would like to add that this only occurs (at least in my situation) when the Big Boy is rolling through the switch at very low speeds, let us call it: less than speed step 25. Anything greater than that, the cut-off does not occur. 

 

Guess I have to chalk this one up to a dead spot in the switch....

 

Michael

 

My own opinion is, when it involves a scale model and a premium one at that, err on prototypical.

 

With the traditionally-sized and more whimsical stuff, sky's the limit.

Well, I did it, I sent my VL BB To JOJO on Our OGR Forum for what I call, a Tweaking of the Systems, and Guess What, This was accomplished in 6 Days, and It smokes like a Dragster, The Whistle Steam Effect is Sensational, and Wow, The Blow Down is like the Lionel Video....All systems ahead and Guess What, ITS WELL WORTH THE MONEY SPENT.

I hope Lionel does some more neat things with the VisionLine Features. I can hear a moderate Quilling, not quite as distinct as the VL Challenger, But, The Echo Effect is very much there. The Whistle is really great whether its the Real Deal, or Not the Real Deal....I would never know.  Now, back to playing with the Big Boy. Happy Railroading.

 

 

 

 

 

 You've identified what's happening. When the tender loses track power, the next chuff will wake it back up and turn the sound system back on. However, it will restart at a nominal labor/effort level. Because heavy labor causes both tonal and volume changes to the chuffing, an abrupt labor change would be perceived as a drop in volume, although the actual railsounds master and background/blend volume settings are not changing. To restore the previous labor setting, get the CAB2 remote to send an updated labor command. Next time it happens, wiggle the train brake slider and see if that restores your previous labor value without having to stop the locomotive.

 

Rudy Trubitt

Director of Audio

Lionel, LLC

I love this kind of support from Lionel and other manufacturers who would get on the forum and help us to understand their products.

I have an "Ahh so..." moment just about every day.

Rudy,

 

I appreciate the insights here!!  Typically, what I have been doing to combat the sound cut-off, is to simply depress the EFX down button (one notch).  This restores the labor setting, albeit one notch lower than the previous setting prior to cut-off.  I will attempt your recommendation by toggling the train brake slider as well. 

 

Out of curiosity, is this a known issue?  I am in fact using Lionel's Fastrack system, so was a bit surprised as to the sound cut-off (this only occurs as the Big Boy rolls over a switch at slow speeds). 

 

Best,

Michael