Odd difference between Atlas 80 and MTH Z1000 with IR

For voltages down at 7-8 volts, you need to run the LED's in parallel, the strips assume 12 volts.  The only way to use the strips is with a voltage doubler.

 

I happen to have a few voltage doubler modules that would boost that power enough to power the LED strips, never thought of that.

 

You have my info, I'd love a bill for 2 of em. I just cranked the Atlas 80 (holding the drive wheels off the track, it about an 8 ft drop, from the track). They light at higher V. 

 

I'd still like to understand the difference between the 2 controllers. There was a thread a few years ago about modulating vs chopping AC?

Marty, I just dragged out a voltage double module and the passenger car lighting module and hooked them up.  At 6V AC input I get full brightness on the 12V strip.  So, if you add this little module to the passenger car lighting supply and use the 12V LED strips, that's a solution.

 

 

 

Is one of the controllers a pure sine wave transformer and the other a triac controlled voltage that has the same RMS voltage, but has peaks greater than the pure sine wave.

The peaks would light the LEDs where the pure sine wave won't.

Z1000 with IR remote is a chopped sinewave.  For the same effective motor voltage (that which makes your trolley run at the same speed), the chopped sinewave has a higher peak track voltage.  GRJ's board has a capacitor which "captures" these peak voltages thereby allowing the LEDs to light up.

Can your LED boards safely handle 2x AC at full track voltage?  Obviously the trolley would never run at full track voltage so this would be just a precaution - for example with what appear to be relatively small caps on your doubler, an inexpensive  bidirectional voltage suppressor could safely dissipate excessive peak doubler pulses.

John,
I'm leaving for CT around 2. I'm in central NJ, so I don't think you want to come play now... Failing that, looking forward to a purchase

I'm assuming no more than around 12-13 volts for using the doubler.  As you so correctly assume, the lighting module would get very unhappy if the voltage exceeds 35 volts peak as that's the rating for the capacitor.  I cranked it up to 13V RMS on the input and the output of the doubler was 34 volts.

 

Perhaps a 1500W TVS like we use for track voltage would be a good move.

 

I don't know about "small" for the caps, they're 220uf at 50V.  I'll have to stick a TVS across it and see how it reacts.  It appears to do a good job, but the only ones I have are 36V, so it tops out at around 38V with the TVS on the output, 16V RMS in.  Without the TVS, it's around 45 volts output open-circuit.  The TVS does get noticeably warm at full bore, but never nearly too hot to touch.  It's working, that's for sure!

 

I'd think a 30V TVS would be a good choice to protect the lighting module if there was any chance of more than around 12VAC on the inputs.

The Atlas 80W is pure sine wave .

The saga continues. Good thing I enjoy this and I really appreciate the input.

So, I'm using the Atlas 80 for 2 reasons

1) I have it and it was expensive.

2) I think it powes the trolleys much more smoothly.

 

so.. I get the voltage doubler wired. Thank you John! But, as all customers do, I lie! Turns out, I'm runing the trolleys at 4.8 to 5.3V... with the pure sine wave, as advertised, I get no spikes, but I notice, the doubler output is DC!, The voltage is high enough to light the LEDs if I dont use the lighting kit, but of course! I have a strobe light, because of the AC. SO I continue to think, look etc.

I find this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-D...;hash=item5417bfe7fe

It purports to have a steady DC out, over a range of DC in. DO you think I could use it on the output side of the lighting kit (so it has a steady supply), or on the input side, so it doesn't stress the lighting module.

 

If you use that module, you can then power the LED's directly, adjust the output voltage carefully from zero until you get the right intensity.

 

You'll need a bridge rectifier and probably a filter cap on the input side, though you might get away with just the bridge.

 

Thanks

Should be no problem.  Here's documentation on how I used a similar eBay step-down/step-up module to drive the LED strip for low-voltage conventional AC operation.  Added bridge and capacitor - and if you're mucking around in the electronics anyway, minds as well include the DCS inductor.

 

http://www.jcstudiosinc.com/Co...-Using-12V-LED-Strip

 

 

I actually found and bought, what I think is the same board you used. Thanks. Since this is for bump and go trolleys, I will probably skip the inductor, but on the freight cars sitting on the DCS loops, you betcha. However, for the full passenger cars, I will probably continue to use Johns units for convenience, I just need to play with some different colors, to mimic incandescent. I think the White LED looks fine in a car with silloettes, an aquarium car,or probably a spotlight car But I don't like it in the cars with interiors.

Staring at the rest of your post on jc studios, do  the warm whites do a good job on cars with interiors?

You can get yellow LED strips if you want more "yellow" in the cars.

I'm gonna try both, my good man. I was just wondering if Stans pics were a photography affect (sometimes colors look a little different in pics), or if they accurately depicted, what the cars looked like, to his eyes

I ordered a roll of the yellow LED's, I'm curious how they'll look in a car.

 

Note that Stan's link to the project shows a much less white light, which is more like what I typically get with the warm white LED's.

 

I've noticed that the warm-white LEDs appear colder in digital photos than they do to the naked eye.  Perhaps you've tried this already but a few years back before warm-whites were readily available, a tint of clear-orange paint over the white LED lens would warm it up.  I haven't tried tinting (since the warm-whites look fine to me) a warm-white - or maybe put a sheet of clear colored cellophane over the strip to see if that helps. 

 

Here's a re-cycled photo from a thread from years ago - it shows the color of regular-white vs. warm-white and the idea of using orange/yellow tinting to "move" the color rightward to get a warmer glow.  I used Tamiya X-24 yellow or X-26 orange clear acrylic paint available at any hobby shop.

 

Marty,  When you used the Atlas did you uses the IR device also?  If so, I am not sure how there can be a difference.  The Z-1000 power pack is also pure sine wave, and if the atlas was fed through the IR receiver it would be chopped too.  The only difference would be if the Atlas had a higher full power voltage than the z-1000 pack.  G

Where are the golden whites on that chart Stan.  That seems to be the name used now with PS-3 and even some Lionel.  The golden LED seem to be a little more expensive than white.  Some times I also see them called warm white.  G

George
I did not use the IR with the Atlas 80. The Atlas 80 runs the living room trolleys. The IR is on the Christmas layout.

Got it Marty.  G