OK, where's the G? (large scale)

Joe, I thought you were looking for me:-)  G

I was Expecting a post about GG-1s!

From the News from LCT thread on the Tinplate Trains Forum:

"Later this Spring, M.T.H. will publish our 2013/2014 RailKing One Gauge product line."

 https://ogrforum.com/topic/news-from-lct

Rusty

Sorry G.

You ARE THE MAN!! G cubed though.

Just looking for G gauge. Maybe they named it after you??

I had been told the beginning of May, the third time.

What's your thoughts on delton, aristo and usa old stock..try searching the for sale forum?

 Thanks Bob. I have looked at many others. I bought a bunch of them. I then struggle to get them to run on my DCS RR. Some gearboxes aren't made very rugged. Most are crammed tight and don't allow for adding a flywheel. I would run a different control system with those, but I love my DCS!

 The precise speed control with the ability to hook up any engine anywhere in the consist is .........PRICELESS!!!

 I could go on and on about all the other benefits of MTH G gauge locos....Just looking for their newly announced diesel this year!!!

I would like to see some G too, Joe.  I only walked past the MTH display at York but I don't think I saw any G there.  Not much new from the other G mfgs either.  I asked Mr. Polk for a 1/29 Big Boy in ABS for around $1,200 - $1,500.  I think he thought I was nuts.  I also asked Charlie Ro for one too, he winked at me.  What's that mean????

Rick

 I bet USA gets requests for a cheaper Bigboy. Theirs is great from what I hear. I just couldn't buy one and run it outside. I drool over the brass Allegheny from AML and they released a Bigboy too.

 I think MTH steamers are the best value hands down.

Here's a video of a couple of my other brands of diesels running under DCS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhFzyUS7zyU

Nice clip Joe. I very much like the idea of running with DCS too, Am not knowledgeable of this aspect of the hobby yet but have acquired a few newer pieces recently...

why do people continue to refer to G gauge?  1:29 scale running on #1 gauge track is 33% larger than prototype while 1:32 equipment has an error in size of -1.04%.  why on earth would you want something so ridiculously out of scale?

i hope MTH remains true as one of the few manufacturers producing 1:32 scale.  this "it's bigger so it has to be better" philosophy is fine with standard gauge toy trains but frankly looks horrible with prototype equipment appearing to be running on a track gauge much too narrow for the scale.

When I started to buy G I didn't know anyone produced 1:32 trains.  Mth did not at that time.  So, 1:29 it was.  And I don't like mixing sizes.  Although I do have a couple of 1:32 box cars.

Rick

...easy, back in the day you had Delton, Aristo, Bachmann, Lionel, LGB, USA and any other fallen flag companies making "their" scale rendition of G scale. I think there were about 4 different scales going on. Hasn't changed all that much since then...I guess I don't understand the tude- Your never going to see everyone playing on the same scale field in G scale...or whatever you wish to call it...not trying to jab at you, it's just this was determined long ago by the makers and the buyers.

It's much like the 5 scales O has...tinplate, old 0-27, newer 0, 0 semi scale and 0 true scale.

N scale and HO scale seem to have it together keeping everything all one size.

Pretty much for the reasons Burlington Route noted above.  It kind of became the de facto designation for just about anything running on 45mm track, mostly thanks to LGB, which popularized Large Scale in the U.S.  With so many scales to choose from for the same track gauge, folks way back when simply found it easier and more convenient to just call it "G gauge."  I've always preferred the term "Large Scale," and that's what I use as the umbrella term for these trains.

i didn't think i've have to explain the difference between scale and gauge.  my question was regarding calling #1 gauge track (developed in the 1800's along with #0 now know simply as O gauge), G gauge.  go ahead and call those ambiguous scales, G scale, but the track is 45mm, #1 gauge.

even MTH has the number right in their large scale logo... Rail King One Gauge.

Yes, those of us who have been involved in that segment of the hobby for many years know the difference between scale and gauge perfectly well.  We also know that these trains all operate on 45mm (#1 gauge) track.  Further, we know that the popular scales for 1 gauge track (in the U.S.) are 1:20.3, 1:22.5, 1:24, 1:29, and 1:32.

But, as I noted earlier the term "G gauge"--wholly inaccurate, to be sure--was simply a convenient way to provide an umbrella that most could relate to, without being too specific and making things too difficult.  Most tended to use "scale" and "gauge" interchangeably, even though "G" was actually wrong for both.  Again, you can probably fault LGB for that "G" thing, but I sure don't fault them because they made thiose trains popular in this country, and the popularity has waned considerably since the original LGB went out of business (the brand is now owned by Marklin, and I'll be seeing how well the products are made today when a locomotive I have on pre-order arrives this summer).

In the world of Large Scale, I model 1:20.3 scale on #1 gauge track.  That is the scale/gauge combo for modeling a 3-foot narrow gauge prototype (the most common of the prototype gauges used in the U.S.).  My "supplemental scale" if you will is 1:22.5 because I have a lot of LGB equipment.  1:22.5 on #1 gauge track represents meter gauge on the prototype (most common in Europe).

The scale that MTH (and Marklin) use for most of their Large Scale models is 1:32, which is the correct scale/gauge combination for modeling a U.S. standard gauge prototype.

Fortunately, the world of garden railroading, where Large Scale dominates, is primarily comprised of folks who are just having fun and who are not terribly finicky about the sizes of the equipment they run and who are even less concerned with counting rivets.  Thank goodness there are still folks like that around!

I could end this post like Barry B. does his DCS posts and note...

All this and more is in "Getting Started in Garden Railroading" by Allan W. Miller and published by Krause Publications

...but that book is now long out of print. 

 There was a long winded discussion over correct scale and preferred 1/29 choices on another forum. It got so bad, several people left the forum over stupidity. I hope this discussion does not get that ridiculous here.

Don't worry...I won't let it.  Probably ought to just close it now and let it disappear altogether since this isn't a Large Scale forum and the only somewhat tenuous connection is with the MTH involvement in 1:32 scale.

If I may 'squeak in' befor the door slams shut here - I though the G referred to 'Garden' RR with the obvious LGB connection.

If I could start all over I'd lean towards MTH's American prototype trains that I have in O gauge and run it all on Gargraves  Number 1 gauge track.

See how much better (IMHO) proportioned this equipment looks on the lower GG rail..

Now Allen.....

Honestly, I'm the last one to try and step on anyone's toes about what to call the gauge...it's "G" in its simplest form, but as we all know it's far broader than that. 

I bought what was cool when it came out no matter what the scale was and to add to that when I scratch built I only did so in 3/8" scale simply because I only had one of those drafters rulers with 3/8" on it...it worked. I had many a conversation, while working at Depot G, about what the correct scale was...and quickly out for myself that said scale was what "that" person was into, either via product favorites or size{or both}...I was the oddball then because most folks bought LGB while I went with nearly everything else.

Anyway, all this talk about "garden scale"...{how's that}...has gotten my Aristo U-25 out and my not so micro micro scale G decals out...time to finish the CB&Q u-boat...though I still have to find all the dang cab glass that I somehow lost...

Actually, around 1978 or so when I first got involved in that scale, most kind of assumed the "G" came from the German "Gross", meaning "Large"--a part of the E. P. Lehmann and "Lehmann Gross Bahn" corporate and brand names.

I came in around '85...not too far from you Allan.

Ok, you should remember this one then.....who was it that made the little plastic switcher that everyone loved to kitbash...they did the lil bobber caboose and a few boxcars - wasn't that MDC/Roundhouse?...I cut my teeth on those - as well as gears{not as bad as bachmann though, and "no", we never over pulled their limits! }

I have two of those MDC/Roundhouse switchers--both purchased many years ago and both still in their original boxes.  Never got around to doing anything with them, but they may still have a future ahead of them.  I have a small Large Scale layout in my garage, and a good number of building kits--also still in their boxes--awaiting my attention.  One of these days I hope to turn that layout into a nicely done mining/logging line.

 Come on Sam. You're as bad as Matt is over on the 2 rail post with the beautiful warbonnets. If you keep showing this, I'm either going to have to bribe it from you, or go get my own!! (to go in this train)

Good, I was right about that. I used to hang with the guys from palos hills- I met them at the lhs there- and we'd tour all their backyard layouts. I was "the kid from Aurora"...and surprised them occasionaly with my kitbashes...guess no-one ever thought to take an LGB stainz and bash it into a forney{before LGB did}, take two Arsito boxcars and make a 50' double door box or to make a bachmann 10 wheeler into a camelback{totally wrong tender but it was fun anyway}...even made a high nose for my U-25 which was correct since it was a WP{now nearly CB&Q livery- no high nose anymore}. Lots of memories there, but I met what was to be my future wife and found "other" things to spend my time and hands on...eons later I now have plenty of time- lol.

Spend some time on that layout..plant some dwarf shurbs and things and do what I never did and take a USA rotary and make a balanced brass blade to really clear snow in the winter....I don't trust that plastic impellor to crusty snow. I have way too many critters around here to try a layout...raccoons, rabbits and "stunks", as the boy calls them.  

the GG site has very little dimensional information.  what is the rail height of their #1 gauge track (above the ties)?  i believe 110 lb rail should work out to be about 0.2" in 1:32 scale.  i imagine most track made for narrow gauge (1:20.3; Fn3) garden railroads might be slightly larger based on the larger scale despite the fact that rail should probably be lighter.

Not just slightly larger, but a whole lot larger.  The most commonly used track for outdoor Large Scale layouts is Code 332 (brass, nickel silver, stainless steel, and aluminum)--way oversize for most standard gauge let alone narrow gauge prototypes.  But it holds up well to the elements and to being stepped on occasionally.  Indoors, I prefer Marklin's much smaller nickel silver rail (Code 250 or thereabouts, as I recall, and expensive), but the problem there becomes wheel flange clearance with many other makes of trains.  Code 250 rails are 1/4" in height and many makes of locomotives and rolling stock have wheel flanges too deep for those rails.

 I think what happens in G scale to a lot of people, is that they become aware of major problems just trying to run some trains. It seems like every brand uses different coupler heights, different flange sizes, etc. I even had to take my switches, and router the frogs deeper to keep cars and engines from hopping. The scale problem isn't the only one. It is also very expensive. Guys here gripe over having to change couplers alone. Imagine having to modify every piece of equipment and everything about each piece to make them compatible and reliable, after paying a premium price just to get it.

 When I looked at O gauge, it become super attractive because of available modern equipment, a more level standard among manufacturers, and a good balance between detail, ruggedness, and cost.

 My heart stayed in G gauge as it is a great hobby of it's own. I have to laugh because some days it's tough to get some trains to make a single loop around the layout without something going wrong. A large train will find the weak points real fast. Tied with the expense, I could see why many guys bail. I'm afraid that most leave the hobby totally.

 I think all this history could help manufacturers plan for the future. Realistic, reliable equipment at a reasonable cost, will help the hobby. I believe that's why so many stay with 3 rail O. It's what makes MTH One gauge so attractive to me. It brings that level to G gauge at a great price.

I must admit, when I saw the pictured of the MTH One Gauge Big Boy, I said "I gotta get one of those."

Now I look at the budget and think, "what was I smoking?"

I'd still love one, but I have no where to run it and I can buy a lot more in Imperial Railking for the money.

Of course, since they shipped in 2004 /2005 they are long gone.

Enginear-Joe, The MTH DCS and the details they bring to "G" is why I also got into this Guage. Will be landscaping my back yard just for the setup.

Dan

 I finally ran some trains outback last year after ten years!! Now, it's getting revamped and taking over the whole yard! Can't wait to see them run again. Good luck to you!!

 All this is so the O scale can take over the basement. It was tough to attempt scenery around the two scales running side by side. Next year, there should be an attempt for a big O gauge change for me.

The confusion between "gauge" and "scale" is endemic - it just comes with the territory - and probably always will.  It's nice to learn enough to distinguish between the two, but probably not worth getting worked up over.  And to some extent in casual usage they are interchangeable - everybody here knows what Joe is talking about.

Just look at ebay's categories under Model Railroads and Trains (itself a misnomer): to the point of absurdity, all are referred to by "scale" : "O Scale", "Standard Scale", "G Scale", etc... (Standard scale, are you kidding, what the heck is that?)

American garden railroad "G Scale" shares a track gauge with One Gauge, but any resemblance to the original European Gauge One is so remote as to make that term as applied to G actually misleading.  But who cares, really?  IMO, It's all fun and games, and it all keeps evolving and changing and growing like crazy, so the terms have to adapt too.  Use any term you want, and if I have to ask you to explain yourself, that's okay too.

Right here's a new MTH RailKing One-Gauge offering..Pre-Order only but it's still a new PS3 engine 

http://mthtrains.shptron.com/p...proto-sound-3-0?pp=8

Although the same gauge I associate #1 with the old and "G" with the new. Im just starting in "G" for the outdoor aspect and will stick mostly to bashing the real cheap stuff, and converting the better things to also run on batteries in box cars and tenders. Ill also strip some for the radio controls. There's no way Id take a chance at forgetting my post war O outside to be rained on, or stolen. G, done on the cheap, puts these fears to rest. If stolen or wrecked, by weather its a small loss. Plus gives me reason to "emerge from the basement".   

hey MTH... how about something we need in 1:32 scale... ROLLING STOCK!!  no MTH purple cars, no fantasy roadnames or paint schemes, you know... the stuff that isn't on the dealer shelves.  50 or 70 ton hoppers, 8k or 10k gallon tank cars, PS1 boxcars, stock cars, etc... all in 6 or 12 packs with different numbers.

Accucraft came out with 1:32 scale reefers in a number of roadnames with multiple numbers.  within a year you couldn't find any for sale.  why is this so puzzling to manufacturers?  i could see if 1:32 scale freight cars were a problem to sell, but this has never been the case with anything ever manufactured.

get it?

...gary

Huh guys I think we gonna need a bigger pump!

Allen, Rich,

Any chance of ever including a forum section for "G"? We have S already, closer to O, but not O. Is there already a G forum directly related to OGF but not linked? I know more people into G than S.(although they tend to run the cheaper G stuff too)

At the Strasburg show occasionally some "G" shows up.  RY models owner Rich Yoder who puts the show on is into importing 1:20.3 and has some fantastic models.

Give him a call if you have an interest in getting into it.

Call between 6:00 PM and 9:00 PM EST

610-678-2834

www.richyodermodels.com

I will have a new USA trains 1:29 ten car SS Budd Congressional set available also.

When I was in Large Scale I ran on code 215 and 250 with US style ties, the Bulky large track just distracted too much from the models IMO.  tt