On30 rough dimensions

Look for info on narrow gauge sights.

I think what you are trying to do is the devil's folly.  On30 is O scale equipment (not HO scale) that basically runs on HO "gauge" track.  I will admit that On30 scale equipment runs on the smaller side (for the most part), but even custom built HO scale equipment running on HO gauge track will never look like an On30 model.  You might be better off completely scratch-building the equipment you want to run.

My $.02.

Chuck

Hi There ! 

Ogr  does have on30 articles !  I wish they had more .   

But Try this Magazine  https://ngslgazette.com/

I do have  on30 trains myself .    I buy mostly  Bachman trains that already made . 

The key is to remember that, though the gauge is narrow, the rest of the world is still 1/48 in proportion.   EVERYTHING else but the gauge/wheels and a very few related parts is bigger than HO:  cabs, cars, buildings, trees, autos, bridges (for the most part), loads, hills, water features. . . .  On30 gets you some nice, tight curves and smallish rolling stock, but it still is going to essentially dwarf HO.

Here's a pic from the upper (On30) level of our layout.  (Please ignore the loose roof on the tower!)  The tracks you see at the bottom and the right are On30.  The rolling stock is standard Bachmann stuff.   The buildings, trees, wagon are all 1/48 scale.  The orange ore train in the left center on top of the tram trestle is On16--N gauge track--and you can see the motorman towering over his motor and dump cars.

Thanks for the help guys. So basically just take an HO locomotive and make some body modifications like wider walkways a bigger cab and a taller stack and it would look ok?

@Matt Bollinger posted:

Thanks for the help guys. So basically just take an HO locomotive and make some body modifications like wider walkways a bigger cab and a taller stack and it would look ok?

not that simple!   Make your life easy and pick up a nice used Bachmann set or engine and a few cars in On30 , you will see its not HO

@Matt Bollinger posted:

Thanks for the help guys. So basically just take an HO locomotive and make some body modifications like wider walkways a bigger cab and a taller stack and it would look ok?

Many, Many On30 engines have been built just that way!

But follow Dave Koehler's advice and pick up a set so that you can get a feel for what you're doing.  Set a few pieces between HO and O equivalents so that you can get a sense of the relationships.

@Matt Bollinger posted:

Thanks for the help guys. So basically just take an HO locomotive and make some body modifications like wider walkways a bigger cab and a taller stack and it would look ok?

If you are looking to get in O gauge narrow on the cheap, it really doesn't look to terrible. It will never be scale but, if you're satisfied with somewhere in between OK, after all, they are your trains.

Ray

I think it all depends on whether you are satisfied with an interesting "critter' based on your imagination rather than a specific prototype.

Here are two I created from a Bachmann 44 ton diesel and the SP switcher shown in a before and after photo.

By the way, the track in the photos is regular HO code 100 flex with every other tie removed (something more difficult than I expected! )

If you have access to the OGR digital library, check Run 231 for more photos and a description of the On30 branch line I incorporated into my 3 rail layout.

Jim

@palallin posted:

Many, Many On30 engines have been built just that way!

But follow Dave Koehler's advice and pick up a set so that you can get a feel for what you're doing.  Set a few pieces between HO and O equivalents so that you can get a sense of the relationships.

I will also add , that S scale cars can easily be converted. as well as some  American Flyer car bodies.

Search around for a set of plans or drawings for a real narrow gauge loco, probable a small 3 ft gauge one.   You could use those to get dimensions for a new cab and other stuff.

Here are side-by-side pics of similar billboard reefers in HO, On30, and O.

On a recent tour of the East Broad Top, it was mentioned that the EBT cars are about 3/4 the size of standard gauge cars.  Note that the EBT was 3-foot gauge, not 30", but I think that's because they couldn't buy HO track when it was being built.

If you work out the numbers, HO gauge track is about 32 inch gauge in O scale.    O gauge track is actually 5 ft in O scale  4 ft 8 1/2 inches for prototype.     So the 32 inch HO gauge is about 4 inches off 36 inch which was the most used common carrier gauge in the USA.    O gauge track is about 3 1/2 inches off scale for O scale.

The Bachman models are based on smaller 3 ft gauge prototypes in many cases.

While the HO track is too small, it is not much farther off than the O gauge track most of use.

So I think you can use HO track gauge to represent a believable narrow gauge common carrier.    But you probably want to change the tie size and spacing.   You want to use Narrow gauge O scale trucks, not HO trucks.   You want to put O scale details on the locos you convert.  

So give it a try.

Micro Engineering has On30 track with more or less accurate spacing and tie size.

,,,and Matt;

You can take an old athearn ho scale "blue box" sw-7 switcher,remove the shell, and place an On30 shell from Shapeways and have a very passable On30 "Critter"

...for a lot less cost

There are some "Critters" made from Athearn HO Scale motors/frames and  Shapeways castings that are fun and loaded by the builders with detail. They overhang the track and roadbed realistically..

With Bachmann steamers; I tend to remove most of the detail and re-detail them with 1:48 scale wiseman parts, again improving the believability. This is an easy way to get a much more realistic steamer

Lately I have been occupied with stripping plastic detail off of On30 Bachmann locos and replacing with more true- to-scale brass fittings. Much happier with the appearance

@C.M McMahon posted:

Lately I have been occupied with stripping plastic detail off of On30 Bachmann locos and replacing with more true- to-scale brass fittings. Much happier with the appearance

Pictures?

What HO gauge (.650" / 16.5mm) works out to in O scale depends on which "O scale" you use. As noted in the earlier post, if you use American O scale (1:48 scale, 1/4" = 1 foot) then it does work out to just about 32" (31.2"). If you use European O scale (1:43.55 scale, or 7mm = 1 foot) then it's 28.2". If you use the correct O scale (1:45, or 17/64" = 1 foot) it's 29.3".

Bachmann has changed a bit over time. Originally, they produced On30 equipment based on 3'-gauge equipment but adjusted to run on 30" track. In recent years, they seem to have gone more to taking prototype equipment for Maine 2'-gauge railroads and adjusting them up to fit the 30" track.

A problem is, although there were some 30"-gauge railroads in the US, it was far less common than 3' gauge (and even rarer than 2'-gauge) in terms of miles of track laid. So there isn't a lot of prototype 30"-gauge equipment to model.

I have never heard of a 30 inch gauge common carrier.

What defines the correct O scale?   Since WWII or the 1950s, "correct" o scale in the USA has been considered 1:48.    The problem is that the track gauge is wrong for that.     However, available "scale" equipment is built to 1:48 scale I think.

an easy way to do this is to order an On30 body on Shapeways and mount it to an old athearn blue box sw-7,

Detail to your heart's content....I have three of these

A bit of a long shot. But keep an eye out for Boulder Valley Models kits. They are On30 cab conversions that fit onto HO scale models. They're out of business, but kits can be found once in a while. An online search will also give you images for possible scratch building ideas to convert your own.

@Jim Policastro posted:

If you have access to the OGR digital library, check Run 231 for more photos and a description of the On30 branch line I incorporated into my 3 rail layout.

Jim

I have Run OGR 131, Another of your great articals.

I am still confused, Some say On30 is just O scale with HO trucks to run on HO gauge Track. and scale would be 1:43.

yet it appears to me the actual bodies are somewhere between  O & HO scale sort of like maybe S or the American flyer .

I am trying to understand the difference between On3 vs On30.

Interested in making a narrow gauge logging layout but still not sure what i want On30 or On3 or something else,  what is the most standard.

Thanks

Jim Teeple

Jim Teeple,

As mentioned above 3 ft gauge was most common in the USA for common carrier RRs and logging RRs.    24 inch gauge, and 30 inch gauge appeared some what in industrial applications and of course the Maine "2-footers".

So if you want to follow one of the more well known logging prototypes, select ON3.    However, if you do this  you will do more building and you will have to search a little harder to find equipment.    But that is part of the fun for most people.

On the other hand, if you use ON30, you can track down Bachman's T-boiler Shay, Climax, and I think also a heisler.     Wiseman I think makes a body to modernize the shay.    T-boilers are very old prototypes.

As for the difference - to be technical -between ON3 and ON30 - it is only the track gauge.    They are both O Scale and both represent prototypes to 1:48 scale.    the cars and equipment appear smaller because the prototypes were smaller - much smaller in many cases.     They are narrow gauge running on track about 3/4 as wide as standard.    Most Narrow gauge freight cars did not exceed 30 feet long, which would be 7 1/2 inches.     The cars will and should look wider sitting on the HO size track.    Narrow gauge stuff tends to have a noticable overhang compared to standard gauge.

And to properly model in ON30, you should not use HO track.    the track gauge is right, and the stuff will run fine, but the appearance is all wrong.    The TIES on HO track are made to look like ties on standard gauge while the ties on ON30 (or ON3) need to be O Scale size timbers - ie much larger.   And then narrow gauge track was not built to such heavy standards, so the ties need to be spaced farther apart.

There are modelers who buy bachman ON30 equupment and switch the trucks and/or wheelsets to ON3.

As for space, both ON30 and ON3 would probably  require the same space for the same equipment.    ON30 is just a compromise because Bachmann originally wanted to market something for Christmas Tree villages and have access to track easily.

By the way there were many standard gauge logging RRs too.  

Thanks Jim

Appreciate your time in helping me to understand,

What Mfg of track(s) do you suggest

Make the new year the best ever.

Jim Teeple

The photos below show the difference in size between O scale and On3/On30 cars.

All are 1:48

The only difference between On3 and On30 is the width of the track (36" vs 30"). On3 locos/cars tend to be longer and larger than Bachmann On30 due to the RRs that Bachmann chose to model.  If you look at older real train cars you will find the same; some are longer, some wider, and some taller.

All the cars in the photos below are 1:48.  Some of the narrow gauge cars had On3 trucks, some On30;  all now have On30 trucks and run on On30 track.  The O scale white reefer is on Atlas O scale two rail track.

I use Micro Engineering flex On30 track and switches. Works well and has prototypical tie spacing and width.

O scale size 3 rail loco and a On30 loco:

The same narrow gauge loco (#463) with smaller ng locos, all running on On30 track. Narrow gauge RRs used locos of various size's just like the real RRs depending on their needs.

Pete

Thank you for the information and wonderful photos,

Very helpfull i think i am getting the hang of the concept.

Micro Engineering list Flex On30 track  in weathered and non weathered and Code 100, 83 & 70 ?

Jim Teeple

@Mallard4468 posted:

Here are side-by-side pics of similar billboard reefers in HO, On30, and O.

On a recent tour of the East Broad Top, it was mentioned that the EBT cars are about 3/4 the size of standard gauge cars.  Note that the EBT was 3-foot gauge, not 30", but I think that's because they couldn't buy HO track when it was being built.

For size comparison, here's a re-post of some of my earlier photos - the largest car is an MTH Premier billboard reefer, the orange car (in the middle in both pics) is a Bachmann On30 reefer, and the smallest car is an HO model.  You'll notice that the On30 car is only a bit larger than the HO car, despite the fact that it is indeed O scale.

Thank you Mallard very helpfull

@wbg pete posted:

The photos below show the difference in size between O scale and On3/On30 cars.

All are 1:48

The only difference between On3 and On30 is the width of the track (36" vs 30"). On3 locos/cars tend to be longer and larger than Bachmann On30 due to the RRs that Bachmann chose to model.  If you look at older real train cars you will find the same; some are longer, some wider, and some taller.

All the cars in the photos below are 1:48.  Some of the narrow gauge cars had On3 trucks, some On30;  all now have On30 trucks and run on On30 track.  The O scale white reefer is on Atlas O scale two rail track.

I use Micro Engineering flex On30 track and switches. Works well and has prototypical tie spacing and width.

I hope you can post more pictures!

I haven’t said very much about this topic because I haven’t had much to add. I would ask you if you’re planning to use DCC or go conventional.  Most of Bachmann’s On30 locomotive line has DCC, although many of Bachmann’s On30 2-6-0s don’t, particularly the ones sold as Hawthorne Village sets. If you do choose to go the DCC route, you may have to refit the HO diesel and steam donor mechanisms.

one thing I would definitely do is plan for clearances. Measuring the width of a borrowed On30 or On3 freight or passenger car is a good idea: even converted American Flyer S gauge cars are narrower than On30.   Planning vertical clearances is also a good idea, especially for highway overpasses and tunnel portals.  An NMRA On30 standards gauge is a good investment, but perhaps adding an inch or so of additional vertical clearance might be wise, even if you aren’t planning to run scratchbuilt D&RGW K-37 2-8-2s on your layout.

case in point: I belonged to a now-defunct South Texas On30 club and remember what happened when a member built a highway embankment and bridge as a view block for a scenery module. Bachmann’s 2-6-0 and out-of-production outside-frame 2-8-0 could duck under the bridge just fine, but Bachmann’s later 4-6-0 kept whacking the bridge.  I hate to think what would have happened if those. 2-6-0s had aftermarket Colorado and Southern “bear trap” smokestacks.  It would not have been pretty.