Onboard camera systems

That's a nice layout, very well done and it's nice to see that you let the kids get involved, very important theses days!

I noticed that you are using a Dell computer monitor that I assume has a direct composite input, so you don't need any type of converter. How does the system react with with other displays? The reason I ask is at one time I used an HP computer monitor with a direct composite input on it and as soon as the signal blipped the monitor would exaggerate the signal interference and seemed to take longer for it to recover than my 32" CRT TV. Not that you want to carry a 90 pound TV to each show!

Now when I used my composite to VGA converter with that same HP monitor it worked flawlessly.

I use a Composite to VGA adapter as well.

Well, I found a live HD FPV camera system that is "somewhat" affordable. You get 720p at 60 FPS and 1ms of latency.  The downside is obviously cost, the system will set you back just over $400. I'm sure that time will eventually bring that cost down.

Check it out here: Connex Prosight

H1000 posted:

Well, I found a live HD FPV camera system that is "somewhat" affordable. You get 720p at 60 FPS and 1ms of latency.  The downside is obviously cost, the system will set you back just over $400. I'm sure that time will eventually bring that cost down.

Check it out here: Connex Prosight

Yes, that. There are some sites that have it under 300$.

These are still classified under normal 5.8GHz equipment and still require HAM Technician class license (Because you have the potential to transmit copyrighted material). Several websites refuse to sell to me as I live in the US.

So digging around, I have found the FCC's filed "Notice of Violation" with distributors. I can at least give the link.

https://docs.fcc.gov/public/at...ents/FCC-18-71A1.pdf

An interesting read in honesty, but its a shame this had to happen.

For those who want the nitty-gritty, you will want to scroll down to Appendix A and verify that your transmitters are NOT on that list.

I see both my 25mW and 650mW are on this list... Thankfully I just need to not operate them in the bands specified.

In my on ongoing quest to build an HD quality FPV camera car that will output to any TV with an HDMI input has yielded a new project.

The Goals in this project were:

1) HD 720p or 1080p output
2) No image delay (Zero latency)
3) Eliminate static interference found in analog wireless cameras
4) Wireless range of 50 feet or better
5) Conceal the entire project in a dummy locomotive and camouflage the camera as best as possible
6) Keep the operation and connection as simple as possible

This is the end result:

Everything in the dummy is battery powered but I do plan to add a track powered charging system for the battery system. Mounted to the frame is the Camera and Wireless transmitter. In the Shell is a 3000 mAh battery back with 12 Volt and 5 volt outputs. To separate the shell the from the frame two power connectors (12v barrel & 5v mini USB) need to be unplugged. There are three warm LED lights for forward lighting that turn on when all components are powered up with a slide switch mounted on the side of the shell for easy access. There is also a charging port on the back of the shell so that the batteries can be charged externally.

Lastly there is the external receiver.

Between the bright LEDs and the very dark opening on the front of the shell, the camera is very hard to see:

Now the major component Build list with MSRP prices:

Camera: AIDA HD100a (https://aidaimaging.com/hd-100a/) -- $280
Wireless Tranmitter / Reciever : NYRIUS ARIES Pro (https://www.nyrius.com/aries-p...transmitter-receiver) -- $250
Battery: TalentCell Rechargeable 12V 3000mAh Lithium ion Battery Pack -- $25
Dummy: MTH F40PH dummy --$80 (estimated)
MISC. Supplies -- $10

This thing has handily exceeded my expectations! The rated range of the Wireless HDMI ARIES Pro is 100 feet with line of sight. I have tested it to work reliably at 70 feet through scenery, tunnels and one interior wall. There was absolutely no latency and no loss in image quality at that 70 foot range. The camera is performed very well in low light (with night mode & color enabled) and it has many ways for your to customize the the output of the image. It handles the transition from dark to bright situations very well. The battery pack can easily run the whole system for 4 hours and my last test yielded 4.5 hours before the battery shutdown. It takes about 6 to 7 hours to fully recharge the battery pack with the included charger.

It checks all of the right boxes except price. I listed MSRP prices above but the NYRIUS ARIES Pro was bought used for $150 and there are cheaper versions available with less range for $200 (MSRP).  I have already researched alternatives for the camera and one stand out item was the Hawkeye Firefly Split camera (Hawkeye FPV Camera) for $77. It's much smaller than the AIDA, has onboard recording to an SD card and has a Micro HDMI output port which could be adapted to work with the NYRIUS. With this camera and the lower cost NYRIUS systems, it may be possible to build this into something smaller and reduce the cost considerably.

The operation and setup of this system is so simple. Plug in the NYRIUS receiver and connect it to a TV with an HDMI cable, next slide the switch on the "camera engine" to power up all of the components inside. In about 10 seconds or less, the Wireless Transmitter & Receiver will find each other and the live image is displayed on the TV at 1080p 30FPS

I'll get some video of this posted soon, it been outstanding to see how clear the image is and the reception quality it absolutely amazing!

That's quite an impressive project. Also take a look at the HD picture quality of the $20 Wyze V3 WiFi Camera that can be powered off the tracks with basically a bridge rectifier, resistor, 5.1V zener (or voltage regulator), and supercap. Picture below. The Wyze is a bit large to fit in an engine unless you can hack the case. It also has a very wide field of view but very good close-up focus.  Curious how it would compare to the AIDA camera with ARIES transmitter.

@Bruce Brown

Hi Bruce, I looked up the specs on the Wyze and it appears to be more of a home security solution rather than a real time zero latency live video feed provider.  The 20 FPS is the real hurt with that unit and then on top of that it had the overhead using WiFi protocols which only adds more latency, error correction and the occasional "skip & jump" in the video feed. I looked 24 FPS solutions on a real time feed but wasn't really impressed. For fluid responsive video it got be 30. I checked out a couple of YouTube reviews of the device and while it is sound home security solution I just don't think it will make leap into the quality level I'm looking for. With the Wyze, is there a way to broadcast the image on a TV? I'd be curious to see what a live image on TV or live stream on the internet would look like.

The NYRUS nor the AIDA camera have any video recording or still image capture abilities. The AIDA does offer interchangeable lenses to allow a wider or narrower focus. I have ordered an HDMI pass-thru capture device to allow me to directly record the video output from the receiver directly to my laptop and will post some better footage when that arrives.

For now I did record some beta test footage on my phone captured from another screen. Keep in mind you are watching a recording of another screen so the image quality will suffer considerably especially as my phone compensates for changes in lighting. The idea is to demonstrate the smooth video and the lack of video artifacts cause by signal interference.

(Be sure to change the player settings to 1080P for best visual results)

This layout is in a very "blue" room and the camera does it's best to compensate. It also doesn't help that the room is lit with 3000K lighting. This is a beta test video and I am still tweaking the camera setting to get better performance.

WoW!  That truly is fabulous video. Very clear, smooth and no flaws!!

Here is the video using the Wyze V3 powered by 3 Alkaline AAA batteries. Obviously much more choppy with the lower frame rate but just represents a $25 total investment. (I forgot to turn off the camera audio.)

@Bruce Brown posted:

Here is the video using the Wyze V3 powered by 3 Alkaline AAA batteries. Obviously much more choppy with the lower frame rate but just represents a $25 total investment. (I forgot to turn off the camera audio.)

For $25 that's pretty dang good! Most of the stuff I tested in that price range wasn't nearly as nice. That camera did an excellent job of showing a clear image in dark areas and transitioning to bright situations! Do you have a way to broadcast that image on a large flat screen or is the live image available on an app/device only?

@H1000 posted:

For $25 that's pretty dang good! Most of the stuff I tested in that price range wasn't nearly as nice. That camera did an excellent job of showing a clear image in dark areas and transitioning to bright situations! Do you have a way to broadcast that image on a large flat screen or is the live image available on an app/device only?

There is no easy method to put the Wyze picture on a Mac or PC screen. It can be put on a TV but you typically need to employ an additional hardware device like a Firestick or Apple TV box to mirror off your smart phone, ipad or Galaxy. If you search "put Wyze on a TV screen" you'll get tons of advice! The price of the V3 camera (indoor/outdoor use) has just gone up in price to $23.99. It includes the AC power supply.

This is good looking stuff guys. Been curious what to throw the stimulus check at!

I havent touched my system in a while and frankly I think its time for a refresh. Truth be told, I think isolated power is the smarter (and cleaner) choice. This eliminates any interference that any system could potentially add.

The Lionel camera caboose:

• Is decent for what it is
  • Compared to my 900TVL analog system, the quality was decent
    • Very little chop
  • Higher quality settings requires clearer line-of-sight and more bandwidth
  • Medium quality is going to be what it is for now
  • You can turn the lights off/on
  • Okay picture
    • Built in night vision (Manual control only)
• It struggles to keep connections in a conventional environment 
  • Instructions say it was intended for command operation only
  • There are no buffer caps for any kind of direction changes or brief stops
  • I'd have happily paid an extra 20$ for that to have been built in Lionel... Shame!
• The amount of time it takes to connect can be up to five minutes!
• Have to reset the caboose back to defaults after an hour or two of continuous operation
  • This has been a reccurring problem for me as it will just stop transmitting. To boot you have to reset it from scratch, so all of the stuff it requires you to setup the first time, you have to do it again.
• The app is prone to freezing. There have been few updates and its more so intended to be paired directly with your phone via Ad-Hoc Wi-Fi.

H1000, the ARIES Pro looks like the ticket for a solid picture. I think I will get one of those to dissect.

Some of the goPro's have Micro HDMI's you can connect and view live.

Many of the more professional train-perspective videos use the GoPro. The problem I had with the Lionel Caboose camera was the distorted thick lens in the cupola. They used a similar type WiFi camera in the UP 21" Fox River inspection car which performed better because it peered through a thin clear plastic sheet.

@Bruce Brown posted:

Many of the more professional train-perspective videos use the GoPro. The problem I had with the Lionel Caboose camera was the distorted thick lens in the cupola. They used a similar type WiFi camera in the UP 21" Fox River inspection car which performed better because it peered through a thin clear plastic sheet.

I agree with the Lionel Caboose Cam. I had high hopes but it was a real let down. The thick plastic windows distorted the image so bad on mine that I returned it for a refund. I know it's possible to remove the window but that is delicate process and I wasn't willing to void warranty on a product that wasn't right from the factory. Overall the Lionel camera was a mediocre performer and I think the Wyze is a much better value.

A while back I borrowed a Go Pro 7 to test for a potential live FPV camera and it was great for recording video to an SD card but really fell short when it came to broadcasting a live image to device and TV.

The hard part has always been getting a device that can transmit HD video without latency all the while keeping it simple and affordable. The Nyrius shines in this department and I think that if the cheaper Hawkeye Firefly split camera pans out, the cost of a system like this can also be much more reasonable.

Thanks Bruce for your input!!

@Stone Rhino posted:

This is good looking stuff guys. Been curious what to throw the stimulus check at!

I havent touched my system in a while and frankly I think its time for a refresh. Truth be told, I think isolated power is the smarter (and cleaner) choice. This eliminates any interference that any system could potentially add.

The Lionel camera caboose:

• Is decent for what it is
  • Compared to my 900TVL analog system, the quality was decent
    • Very little chop
  • Higher quality settings requires clearer line-of-sight and more bandwidth
  • Medium quality is going to be what it is for now
  • You can turn the lights off/on
  • Okay picture
    • Built in night vision (Manual control only)
• It struggles to keep connections in a conventional environment 
  • Instructions say it was intended for command operation only
  • There are no buffer caps for any kind of direction changes or brief stops
  • I'd have happily paid an extra 20$ for that to have been built in Lionel... Shame!
• The amount of time it takes to connect can be up to five minutes!
• Have to reset the caboose back to defaults after an hour or two of continuous operation
  • This has been a reccurring problem for me as it will just stop transmitting. To boot you have to reset it from scratch, so all of the stuff it requires you to setup the first time, you have to do it again.
• The app is prone to freezing. There have been few updates and its more so intended to be paired directly with your phone via Ad-Hoc Wi-Fi.

H1000, the ARIES Pro looks like the ticket for a solid picture. I think I will get one of those to dissect.

Some of the goPro's have Micro HDMI's you can connect and view live.

Something I found out about the Lionel Camera app was that it is a canned app provided by someone else. For better performance, I used the BVCAM app, it works with Lionel camera systems and app is much more reliable. I agree with the isolated power source. There is absolutely no chance for power interference and no chance of voltage surge damaging expensive equipment.

I will have to revisit the GO Pro for the HDMI output as a possible candidate. Thanks for the input!

@Bruce Brown

Well buyers remorse hits after doing some more research. I just found an HD camera with an HDMI port for $109. It has great reviews, looks to be of good build quality and much more affordable than the AIDA...

MOKOSE HDMI Camera:
https://www.mokose.com/collect...riant=32132980047927

@H1000 posted:

@Bruce Brown

Well buyers remorse hits after doing some more research. I just found an HD camera with an HDMI port for $109. It has great reviews, looks to be of good build quality and much more affordable than the AIDA...

MOKOSE HDMI Camera:
https://www.mokose.com/collect...riant=32132980047927

The thing I am going for is looking out the window which gives you that "I'm in the driver's seat". Would prefer not to punch holes in the nose. You have no idea how long it takes people to figure out where it is.

I'll check out that cam later today and see.

@Stone Rhino posted:

The thing I am going for is looking out the window which gives you that "I'm in the driver's seat". Would prefer not to punch holes in the nose. You have no idea how long it takes people to figure out where it is.

I'll check out that cam later today and see.

I agree completely, it's a lot of fun watching everyone and guessing where it is! I always thought if one could get a camera small enough that it could be mounted to (or replace) the front coupler, it would at least turn with the truck and the image would follow the rail pretty closely around curves.

The camera's you suggested are 12vDC. That is a bit harsh to match in a conventional control layout. I can easily get a boost/buck to maintain 5-9vDC. My super cap array will is already maxed out and running at its maximum safe voltage of 9.5vDC. Would be nice if the requirement was lower. Are you track powering your's H1000?

I have LiPoly batteries that average 11.2v (3S 1.5C class) and shut off at 10.5v. While at 2200mAh, this usually would last an entire day event, if not the whole convention weekend. But as you know, most people turn their nose up at the LiPoly gel packs due to their frail nature and strict charging requirements. LiFePoly's seem to be the ticket (The venerable 18650's for example). Larger than an AA, but still require special charging systems.

Regarding the BVCAM app comments...I'd like to see an open source solution that would allow me to integrate the Lionel IP Camera videos into my layout controller.  I do know these cameras allow for a basic mp4 stream over http but I haven't figured out how to send the auxiliary commands to increase resolution etc...

@H1000 posted:

I agree completely, it's a lot of fun watching everyone and guessing where it is! I always thought if one could get a camera small enough that it could be mounted to (or replace) the front coupler, it would at least turn with the truck and the image would follow the rail pretty closely around curves.

Very kewl H1000, Thats the same configuration I use for FPV  on my R/C Drones and planes. Nice install. <s>

Some time ago I wanted to do a couple of video clips of the carpet empire to share with family.   My first attempt was using what was available,..   added some weight and rubber banded my cell phone to the back of a passenger car.   The results were good since cell phones have really nice cameras.  Only problem was it couldn't fit through the bridges and tunnels due to height.      My next was using a small handheld video camera with a mount made to sit on a flat car,..  this could be pushed by the train and fit through the tunnels but I like a view where I can see the train.     My daughter gave me a 90degree periscope adapter for the cell phone (cheap) but still a bridge clearance problem.     

My final solution came at a RC hobby shop where they have high quality video cameras in very small packages.   Look at some of the FPV used for racing and flying, there are many types that come in component levels.   A tiny camera lens unit (or several) can be placed anywhere and wired to the a control unit that records, broadcasts, takes still shots, etc,..    For my purposes I just obtained a RunCam2 4k version which is fully self contained and only 3/4 inch high.    Using their app I can live stream the view to my phone.   I paid $100 for the camera which I could have obtained for 70 or 80 online, but anytime I can I fully support the local shops. 

@Miggy posted:

Very kewl H1000, Thats the same configuration I use for FPV  on my R/C Drones and planes. Nice install. <s>

Thanks! I have a complete write up on the forum here: https://ogrforum.com/...35#72805549098596735

@Stone Rhino posted:

The camera's you suggested are 12vDC. That is a bit harsh to match in a conventional control layout. I can easily get a boost/buck to maintain 5-9vDC. My super cap array will is already maxed out and running at its maximum safe voltage of 9.5vDC. Would be nice if the requirement was lower. Are you track powering your's H1000?

I have LiPoly batteries that average 11.2v (3S 1.5C class) and shut off at 10.5v. While at 2200mAh, this usually would last an entire day event, if not the whole convention weekend. But as you know, most people turn their nose up at the LiPoly gel packs due to their frail nature and strict charging requirements. LiFePoly's seem to be the ticket (The venerable 18650's for example). Larger than an AA, but still require special charging systems.

So yes the Camera does state 12v but the operating manual for the AIDA camera does indicate a voltage range from 9 to 15 volts. I did test my camera down to 9 volts and worked just fine.

My camera vehicles are not track powered but I am looking into using track power to recharge the batteries on my latest build.  The battery pack (link to product) I dissected for this latest project does use 3 of the "venerable" 18650 batteries that have a charging and over current protection circuit built in.  The pack also included a separate board the has the 5 volt regulated output, 12v direct from battery output, 5 led battery level indicator, and an ON/OFF switch.

My battery pack will shut down when the system drops to 9.5 volts and the entire camera system in the dummy engine will draw about 525ma @ 10 volts. The pack is rated for 3000mAh so I predict I should get 4 to 5 hours of constant usage.

Some of my first trials with cheap FPV cameras running on track power yielded poor results due to interference from track power, command signals, chopped sine waves and other unknown variables. I notice improved quality and less frustration when I went solely to battery power, but I do want to revisit a track power solution.

FWIW, I had to go to some lengths in my sound boards to isolate the RF receivers from the noise of track power and of the high current audio power supply current variations that were feeding back and causing communication issues.