Pennsylvania E 6 Atlantic

I have the Lionel I really like it although it's the older TMCC one. Eventually I will have it upgraded to PS3. I'm sure the MTH (with PS3) is very nice. In your case I'd recommend the MTH one since they come in 2 rail. 

Sunset E6, three rail, with an ERR  electronics upgrade.  

The Sunset E6 is very accurate, 2 rail, and a smooth runner.  The best detailed E6 in O scale.

Both Max Grey and US Hobbies did the E6.   I have a Max Grey I like very well.   It pulls better than my K4 and looks right to me.   The Max Grey models are not as detailed as the later US Hobbies but generally have nice proportions.

"I would like to know which of the Lionel or MTH is the better model .  Not its running ability but its detail and scale proportions. My intent is to 2 rail whichever one I buy."

Of the two, there is no question that the Lionel is the better model.  The MTH is actually pretty bad.  In order to fit the smoke unit, the smokebox and whole front of the locomotive was severely stretched.

Here's the MTH.  Note the distance between the sand dome and the stack.  Also note the relatively small wheels on the pilot truck.

Here is the Lionel.  Again note the distance between the sand dome and the stack.  The pilot wheels are larger than the MTH.

Here's the real thing.

Like Ed Rappe said above, the Sunset/3rd Rail model is by far the best of the bunch.  Finding one of these in 2-rail is (in my opinion) a better option than converting a Lionel or MTH.

I really like the Saginaw - but the Lionel looks pretty good from the photo.  If this thread hangs around for a while, I will post a photo of my cobbled together version and a Saginaw.

Note - Saginaws are only for the very small doorstop community.  There is some indication that the community may exceed ten in the near future - there are converts!

Makes no sense to buy 3 rail when it is available in 2 rail.

The Sunset E6 runs and looks very good; I happened to have the 3-rail version, so the 2-rail looks even better:

Regards

Fred

The sunset model is well detailed.   I think the slope of the firebox in front of the cab is a little too pronounced.   

If you go to a 2-rail O scale show, the chances are very high  you will find an E6 on on one of the tables.   

In my opinion I would avoid any of the versions made for 3 rail including Williams.     All of the 3 rail ones, even when delivered with scale wheels have the pilot deck and lead truck extended too long.    This is done so the lead truck can clear the cylinders on sharp curves.    Then they have to extend the pilot deck out front for the longer truck.   However, it looks funny when you compare the model to photos of prototype.    Also many of these models made for both types of track have lead truck wheels that are very undersized.    That also looks funny to me.   

MTH also made a 460 

Here are mine.  We did 2-rail a Williams or Weaver, and it turned out quite nicely.  The first one below is an H-10 boiler, lengthened, with a Saginaw frame, sprung, and Lobaugh drivers.  The second is a bone-stock 1939 Saginaw.

I guess I should note: the first tender is scratchbuilt;  the Saginaw is sand cast brass.  Dolphin tender trucks are sort of rare these days in O Scale; I had my friend Allan Wehrle cast some up in brass in his back yard foundry.

So much for doorstops; back to the imports!

Frank, I owned two of the Sunset E6s engines. Both first and second run. I ultimately sold them and modified a Williams three rail E6s to 2 rail (with help from Joe F.) A new pilot truck was fabricated and detailed, along with shortening the pilot deck.

Yes, the Williams boiler is about 12"-16" scale inches too long, and the drivers are set a bit too close together (compared to the Sunset). But it is a really reliable running engine, and after all the detailing I added to it, am pleased how it looks, and runs.

I'll put up some photos later.

These are beautifully proportioned locomotives.  Just beautiful machines. 

OK, I'll play.

I have an old MTH PRR Atlantic. The tender board had blown. I have a spare PRR long haul tender from an articulated Q2. So to see what would happened, I connected them.

Edit: I made a special harness for the wiring to do this!

Maybe I can call mine something else than an Atlantic!

I think mine was an experimental PRR that had a special boiler......?

Joe you got lucky!  MTH Protosound 2.0 tenders are not interchangeable, you can definitely blow or scramble boards that way!!

Ted S posted:

Joe you got lucky!  MTH Protosound 2.0 tenders are not interchangeable, you can definitely blow or scramble boards that way!!

You are right about one and wrong about another. I would not just plug and play anything together. This tender has a wireless drawbar. The engine had a wired 5 volt tether. So I built a special connection for this set-up out of a spare. It bypasses the tender connection.

 So I do agree that they aren't always interchangeable. Good thing I have experience installing PS systems in so many engines.

SO KIDS! DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME!!! 

Well here's my Sunset it was three rail but I converted it, to two rail, and machined new leading truck wheels. Cylinders need lowering.        cTr.....( Choose the Right )

Bob thank you for posting the Saginaw E 6 ..... it gets my vote for best E6 .....at least till a Icken surfaces .     A Saginaw E 6 is a rare bird ..........lots of Saginaw H10  Consolidations in the world ..... but all the Atlantic's must have scraped like the prototype.

Here is an ad for an Icken- Barker from 1930 ....

Cheers Carey

IMO the Sunset 3rd Rail E6s is the best starting point for creating a smooth running scale dimensioned 2 rail model of a PRR E6s Atlantic.  As mentioned by Stephen the biggest issue with the model was that it's boiler rides too high - the cylinders needed to be lowered in the frame so that the center line of the pistons are at the same height as the driver centers.   Note that the Sunset 3rd Rail E6s is a much different model than the early 1980's vintage Sunset E6s.  The later model had  an incorrect straight boiler vice a conical (tapered) course behind the smokebox.   I model the PRR in the  early 1950's time frame so some of the changes I made include:

• postwar style marker lights
• whistle steam deflector 
• Cab roof smoke deflector
• "close mount" PRR bell
• hinged deck plate  
• wide space P E N N S Y L V A N I A tender lettering
• additional weight in boiler
• Tsunami2 TSU4400 DCC sound decoder
• speaker in the smokebox
• 

The pictures show some nasty dust.  It reminds me that to really look "right" the engine needs to be properly weathered.

How big are the pilot wheels?

Edit: Looks like they're 36"

The 4 wheel pilot trucks on Pennsy E6 (and K4s) locomotives were equipped with 36" in diameter wheels.  A number of 2 and 3 rail models of these prototypes were built with undersized wheels to clear the cylinders when operated on tight radius curves.  The Sunset 3rd rail 2 rail E6  has no issues on a 50" radius branch line curve.

Ted S posted:

Joe you got lucky!  MTH Protosound 2.0 tenders are not interchangeable, you can definitely blow or scramble boards that way!!

I can attest to that.   

Nice work, Ed!  The 'as produced' bell sticks out like a sore thumb.  So much better now.  A new one on me is the whistle steam deflector.  I was aware of them on K4s's but hadn't seen them on an E6 until now.

Bruce

Bob posted:

 

Here's the real thing.

Like Ed Rappe said above, the Sunset/3rd Rail model is by far the best of the bunch.  Finding one of these in 2-rail is (in my opinion) a better option than converting a Lionel or MTH.

" I model the PRR in the  early 1950's time frame".......   

Yes of course you guys are right. I look up to you both.

I'm only playing around here.

I model the "what I got my hands on" and "run what you got RR".

Hmmm ....Wigmho & Rwyg RR.

Almost catchy???

I'll keep working on it.