Petruzzo Collection Stout Auction

Good thoughts Ron.  I agree whole-heartdly.    Bob Severin

Well, so much for ideas of 1 SG, product in my house, especially, this style collection.

Based upon information from you very folks on the forum,  I kept moving on the information, and saw  a Youtube, presentation, and heard that (a 292) cant remember,

but it was black, and a steamer:  but I remember this >> 27 inches long,   O M Gr!!!!

anyway I am truely laughing at my -- fleeting thought of ownership.  THATS HUGE!!

I have never seen such interest in an Auction here on the OGR Forum.  It is encouraging , no matter the reason!

Different universes, Ron, and hardly the twain shall meet. As you say, it's all to the good.

I just checked out the 1/25/14 Stout auction,I guess the IVES Prosperity Special would be an investment grade collectable.Is there a way to get the total Hammer value of any of these auctions without tallying up everything piece by piece? just curious.

What would be the point.  You can go to liveauctioneers.com(archives) post-auction, and get individual results.  Before we get carried away, most items are within our collective price ranges.  Not every item is a State or Blue Comet Set!  And what is the big deal if Petruzzo bought duplicates to combine the best parts.  Who has never done that????  By definition, that is train collecting.  Some of you think way too much!

Ron, I mean to tell you . I enjoy the way you light things up . I just love the way you "slam-dunk". I agree totally with the two lines above...Way to go!!

God Bless,

"Pappy"

There are as many ways to collect as there are individuals.  In the video, Petruzzo was quite explicit in descibing his method and saying that "this is called the upgrading method of collecting" - recognizing that it is one method among many.  

Brasher is vintage purist to the extreme that if a bulb burns out on his layout, he doesn't put in a new bulb:  he has to find a vintage 1920's bulb that's still good, to use on the layout.  That's awesome!  And, it definitely wouldn't work for me!  

So you find the method of collecting that works for you, that gives you satisfaction, and you enjoy doing it that way.  And you listen to others describe the way they collect, and realize that their way gives them satisfaction too.

The other thing to realize is that your own method will undoubtedly change over time as you learn.  Over in another thread, someone just wrote a very clear post on why they aren't interested in old vintage stuff, the new reproductions are dependable, look great, and are less expensive.  I had to smile because that was exactly my position several years ago, and for the same reasons.  Now, a decade later, I'm surprised to find myself gradually replacing my MTH trains with vintage Ives, Dorfan, and Flyer; and MESG -  two areas of tinplate that excite me.  And the reasons - dependability, appearance, and price - are not at all as obvious as I thought back then.  Funny how that happens.

For something like the issue of "upgrading" by trading out parts of sets, and even parts of cars, to gradually upgrade your collection: you just have to decide whether that way of going about it will bring you satisfaction, or whether you'd rather do it a different way, and let someone else do the upgrading. Since that person is always buying and selling to upgrade, they might become a great source for things you're looking for, even though you don't have the same objective.   

A big collection coming up for auction is the result of one person's approach to collecting.  You don't have to agree completely with his method, to value and appreciate his collection and what he did.

  Very well said hojack! 

  I think this auction will tell us all a lot about the future and current state of our hobby. The collection is interesting in that Frank was truly a variation collector. There are many very rare and unusual variations that exist only in this collection. My fear is that many of the high roller collectors are so intensely focused only on condition that these pieces will go unappreciated because most are C6 or below. It really is kinda sad. As hojack said, to each his own.

  As far as the comments made about Stout's grading and "matched set" adjective....

I have had the pleasure to work closely with Gary for years. To catalog and lot a collection like this was a HUGE undertaking. He has obligations to the consignor, customers, and himself as a collector. We all know Frank liked to switch parts, and many of the sets did not come the way he had them displayed. With his passing, we have no way of knowing what he did. Gary did his best to match condition and patina in the sets to please everyone. The effort he and Katy put into this sale was just astonishing!

Well said Hojack. My collecting has changed thru the years, it's more refined now then it was 10 or 15 years ago. It is far more focused.

My only point regarding the mix-and-match theory to collecting comes from the historian standpoint. When someone is trying to figure out how things came from the factory, it makes it that much harder to decipher what is right. That's why trains coming from an original owner are cherished. This of course does not account for changes that may of occurred during that trains life, but it does limit the amount of tinkering from future generations. When we are talking about trains that are 80-90 years old, it is getting very hard to find them. A lot of what is coming from these diverse collections are just those types of trains.

I do think the many people collect the variations and that the ones in this collection will not go unnoticed. There are always people looking for variations. Condition trumps all, but some variations are not dependent on condition.

ARNO

Some of you don't read close enough!

I never said I had a problem with the way Petruzzo collected.  It

was his collection and he was certainly entitled to put it together any way he saw fit.  My problem is with how it is listed for auction.  I don't think the auction house should make claims that they can't prove.  I know the goal is to make as much as possible, I get it, it's a bussiness.  But don't say something that can't be proven and in fact is probably wrong, especially since many know of the collector and his method of collecting.  Dishonest may be a bit strong but I think misleading would be accurate in describing their descriptions.

John. 

John,

Frank Petruzzo was a purist in every sense of the word. The way he would exchange parts was and is an accepted practice even today. Frank Petruzzo always swapped parts from like sets and variations. The fact that he could do so without it being noticeable by other collectors is what made him famous.

You're correct when you said that that "dishonest" is a bit strong. Also, Stout Auctions is not making any attempt to be misleading in this auction. I've bought from them many times over the years. I've never been disappointed in any way. It makes me sad that I must sit this auction out.

"Pappy" 

Due to concerns above, this is not an auction for absentee bidders in some cases.  You got me wondering now if Frank "made" some things.  But to be honest, I am not in the running for ONE-OF-A-KIND trains.  If I have duplicate State Cars, and I have a better coupler on the poorer-condition one, I would be an idiot not to add this coupler to the car I am keeping.  Let's keep it real here!  There's one loco I want, but it looks way too good as it is far and away the best example I have seen in over 40 years!...I AM MAKING A PHONE CALL!

Ron,

YOU'RE NOT ALONE. Yes, this is an auction for "DEEP POCKETS". I've picked up many things at auctions like this. Each bid was rock bottom. People are afraid for some reason?  GOOD LUCK!!

"Pappy"

I hope you gentlemen get what you're after, unless it's something I'm bidding on.  Good luck.

John.

Well, the auction has just ended. For those of you interested, I ran a tally during the auction, the total hammer price was $576,210 with an average price per lot of $1859. High bid was $35,000 and 12 lots sold for less than $100.

Spreadsheets make this way too easy.

Hope everyone got what they were after.

ARNO

Thanks for post I assume the premiums add to this figure.

ARNO,

I was surprised to see the total so low. It just means that quite a few scored some, "bargains" in premium tinplate. (I know I did .)

God Bless,

"Pappy"

ARNO, thank you very much for those figures.

Any thoughts on what this collection would have sold for 20 years ago compared to today?