Could you guys and girls recommend a good book(s) about P&LE steam? Also what year did the primary tender lettering change from Pittsburgh and Lake Erie to New York Central with the smaller P&LE?
With both Lionel and MTH bringing out engines lettered for NYC/P&LE I am wondering how close either is and if they lend themselves to modifications to make them more accurate.
Pete
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Here's a link to the Pittsburgh and Lake Erie historical society website where you can find lots of info on the P&LE.
Thanks for the link Penn. One of the few steam pics on the website is of the H-9 Heavy USRA Mikado which Lionel is doing and appears to be pretty close to the one pictured.
Pete
I have and recommend the book Pittsburgh and Lake Erie by Harold McLean. A good history, lots of maps and photos.
Thanks Mark. I just ordered a copy.
Pete
How many of the P&LE steam engines just said New York Central System with no small P&LE?
Dave
How many of the P&LE steam engines just said New York Central System with no small P&LE?
Dave
That is certainly a good question, Dave.
Mark,
There is very little info on the P&LE steam out there. I would love to have more on my layout!
Dave
MTH doing a 2-8-0 lettered for NYC/P&LE is what really prompted this thread. I know its a Western Maryland prototype but assumed it was close to a P&LE engine for them to letter it that way. NYC had some that were similar save the large tender. I am hoping Mr McLean's book can shed some light on it.
Pete
MTH doing a 2-8-0 lettered for NYC/P&LE is what really prompted this thread. I know its a Western Maryland prototype but assumed it was close to a P&LE engine for them to letter it that way. NYC had some that were similar save the large tender. I am hoping Mr McLean's book can shed some light on it.
Pete
Pete,
I would volunteer to look that up for you tonight, but all my railroad books are packed away in boxes under the basement steps in our split foyer house from our move 3 years ago. Emptying the closet is out, because our older daughter is packing boxes to move, and the basement area near the closet is too full to pull everything out. Hopefully she will be getting the job and move, because it would free up space that is crying out for an O-Gauge layout.
Dave,
I have some NYC/P&LE equipment, but don't know off hand how authentic to the prototype they are. At one point in my life, that would bother me, but I guess I am mellowing.
Morning Sun Books did two volumes on the P&LE but virtually no steam. Kahndog Publications, Inc. did a whole book on the P&LE's Berkshires the A2a that never should have been built.
MTH made the A2a and the GP7 that took its place.
Ron
Mark, I appreciate the offer. I should have my copy within the week.
Ron, why did you refer to the A2s as the engines that shouldn't have been built? Too late for a steam engine?
Pete
Ron, why did you refer to the A2s as the engines that shouldn't have been built? Too late for a steam engine?
Pete
Just going from memory, the New York Central was "helping out" ALCO by throwing them some business, thus the A2 Berks were ordered essentially for drag service. Yes, they were ordered & built very "late in the game", plus had pretty small drive wheels (well under 69 inch diameter). It was so lets in the game for ALCO, I think the tenders were constructed by Lima Locomotive Works.
Ron, why did you refer to the A2s as the engines that shouldn't have been built? Too late for a steam engine?
Pete
Just going from memory, the New York Central was "helping out" ALCO by throwing them some business, thus the A2 Berks were ordered essentially for drag service. Yes, they were ordered & built very "late in the game", plus had pretty small drive wheels (well under 69 inch diameter). It was so lets in the game for ALCO, I think the tenders were constructed by Lima Locomotive Works.
Pete as Hot Water stated but one other major point, the A2s was built WITHOUT roller bearing. Now they could pull but limited in speed. But of course the "Little Giant" was known for tonnage not speed.
Ron
Pete as Hot Water stated but one other major point, the A2s was built WITHOUT roller bearing. Now they could pull but limited in speed. But of course the "Little Giant" was known for tonnage not speed.
Ron
Why would they have "limited in speed" just because they didn't have roller bearings? There were sure lots of steam locomotives capable of 90+ MPH speeds on plain bearings, long be for roller bearing came into existence.
Hi Pete,
If you do a web search on this site: historic Pittsburgh image collections digital research library univ of Pittsburgh, once on the website, type in Pittsburgh & lake Erie railroad in the search block.
there are approx. 2000 old black & white photos archived in chronological order from the late 1800's through the late 60's. You can spend some time looking at the images as there are a wide variety of subjects and the whole collection is fascinating to look through.
Nick
Nick, fantastic resource. Thank you for that link.
Pete
Can you all be sure that the driver axles did not have RBs on the P-Nellie A2a, the rest of the journals were most certainly plain FBs. This chooch would have done better with a conventional Worthington FWH. And A Lot better had they been stored properly prior to their transfer to the Big Four ! Chalk it up to the wrong chooch, at the wrong place, at the wrong time...the A2a was not really an engineering disaster.
Can you all be sure that the driver axles did not have RBs on the P-Nellie A2a, the rest of the journals were most certainly plain FBs. This chooch would have done better with a conventional Worthington FWH. And A Lot better had they been stored properly prior to their transfer to the Big Four ! Chalk it up to the wrong chooch, at the wrong place, at the wrong time...the A2a was not really an engineering disaster.
No not exactly an engineering disaster. The A-2A did pull in excess of 9,000 tons and 100 car consists at speeds exceeding 35 mph along the relatively flat profile back and forth between the Pittsburgh area and "Murdertown USA." The P&LE did have a freight train limit of 50 mph, but so did the A-2A have a design limit of 50 mph.
Again, why do you maintain that plain bearings have a "design limit of 50 mph"? That simply is NOT a fact!
Again, why do you maintain that plain bearings have a "design limit of 50 mph"? That simply is NOT a fact!
I did NOT say the plain bearing was THE design limitation, but they(A-2As) did have a 50 mph limit. That is in fact what Jack states in his 131 page book on the A-2A, so I guess you might call that a "fact Jack" or maybe a "Jack fact." Get the book!
Again, why do you maintain that plain bearings have a "design limit of 50 mph"? That simply is NOT a fact!
I did NOT say the plain bearing was THE design limitation, but they(A-2As) did have a 50 mph limit. That is in fact what Jack states in his 131 page book on the A-2A, so I guess you might call that a "fact Jack" or maybe a "Jack fact." Get the book!
Well sorry pal, but I don't care about the book or what is published in it! Just because a steam locomotive does NOT have roller bearings on all axles, does NOT limit the speed of that locomotive to only 50MPH. Just because a book is written buy someone with no engineering knowledge of steam locomotives and their respective running gear, certainly does NOT make their errors fact.
Well....compared to a Van Berk....certainly not the best, but compared to the A1a thru A1c series on the Central, the A2a was a freekin' masterpiece !
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