Planning Benchwork (Yes, another thread about it - sorry). Homosote Necessary with RealTrax?

Mike,

  You can use the homosote on top of your 4x8 ply wood, however it does not deaden

the sound as much as I like with my combined RealTrax and FasTrack layout.  I recommend completley covering your 4x4 plywood with the homosote, then covering the homocote with thick indoor/outdoor carpeting, if you really want to deaden the sound almost completely, add the 2nd layer of outdoor Green porch type carpet over the indoor carpeting.

This is definitely over kill, however if you have the layout in your living room for Christmas and your wife entertains during the holidays, you can run your trains and still sit and talk with your company in the living room, with very little noise from your trains.  

PCRR/Dave

Need sound barrier for RealTrax?  YES !!!

It is not quite as bad as Fastrack but it's close enough.

The plastic roadbed on both of them acts like a speaker cone for the rail noise.

Quietbrace or Celotex Soundstop will muzzle the sound better and for less money than Homosote.

Damaged ceiling tiles are also a good choice, Note: Damaged ones are far less money than new ones.

I have found a layer of felt also helps a lot on my Christmas layout.

Russell,

   Have used the Felt and the old sound supressing ceiling towel, they do work very well also, use to be a lot easier to get the old sound supressing CT when more construction was being done, that is for sure.  This Christmas I cheated and went with only one layer of carpet, with both RealTrax & FasTrack it was definitely a big mistake,

especially when wanting to run at least 2 trains at the same time.

PCRR/Dave

You do not need to cut the homosote to act as another roadbed. The plastic roadbed that comes with the track is enough. Just lay the full sheet of homosote over your sheet of plywood for the sound deadening effect. 

Another thing that other people have tried is pink or blue foam board for sound deadening

Yes!

And I've found Homasote to be a more effective sound-deadening material than Extruded Polystyrene (the pink or blue insulation sheets).

So Allan, you're saying use the Homosote and not the insulation, correct?

Thanks,
Mike

Given a choice between the two, and assuming Homasote is available in your area, I would use Homasote.  However, I have used Extruded Polystyrene myself in recent years, not necessarily for its sound-reduction properties, but more often because I like it for use in carving-out and building-up landform areas and because it is more readily available in the area where I live.

Mike,

When starting my layout I tried to locate quiet brace, and the brown celotex here in our area. Its not available. I went with homosote over the entire layer of plywood. Its awfully expensive though.I experimented with some of the other suggestions, and still went with the homosote.

I was not able to fasten my track as securely as I wanted to foam, or ceiling tile without going all the way through into the plywood. The way I understand it is that defeats the  purpose if the screws go into the plywood. However, as Allen mentioned, carving out areas will be much easier with foam. I thing it all depends on what you are ok with / can afford / can put up with…..  Hope this helps

As previously mentioned I also put the homosote directly on plywood,  It worked very well because I built three separate  tables (with plywood surface) and joined them together with homosote which made for a nice surface spanned over the tables to make one big table.  I glued the homosote with Elmer's glue.  

To sound test I ran the trains on plywood, then with the homosote.  Did the homosote make a difference...  Absolutely.

In addition, I used the 2" adhesive foam tape, I know realtrax is wider so was forced to use two pieces side by side, while doing so I left a small channel between the two foam strips which allowed just enough gap to tap the rails (railpower, blocks, signals) from underneath.  The adhesive foam was SIMPLE because I traced my layout w/pencil and the stuff lies flat and makes smooth curves.  It was very easy to work with.

To sound test I ran the trains on the homosote surface, then on the foam.  Did the foam make a difference...  Absolutely x10!

I want to mention that I did use the realtrax clips, and screw the track down into the homosote.  The foam pinched flat once screwed down.  I took razor knife and went around on the edges and trimmed excess, the foam disappeared entirely and the track was flat on the homosote.  My plan was to ballast it so it wouldn't of mattered either way.  I am very glad I used the adhesive foam.

The foam tape was about $10 for a 25' roll at any HVAC supplier, Home Depot has some in their havoc isle but it's a slightly thinner.

Thanks for your advice Allan!

That helps Louis, thanks.  I was about to start looking around here, guess I don't have to now.  My layout, won't be all that big (small room), so I'll probably only need a piece or two of it.  Have you made any more progress on yours?  Haven't seen any updates on here!

Litegide, where did you put the foam, in the gap of the RealTrax roadbed?

I don't have a photo handy.  Although I believe a realtrax is about three or so inches.  The foam is about 2" wide x 1/8" thick x 25' long rolls.  Basically traced my track lines onto the surface (painted my homosote) and then laid two of these runs of tape side by side (butted together).  When I began some wiring the power districts soon found that the under track access to lace a wire is Important, for example you drill a center rail wire to sodder on from underneath but now need to shift the track or change out a 3' track section and make it a 4"...  The foam laid tight together didn't give that tiny channel to lay a wire flat but a small gap between your two strips of foam did.  I'll attach a picture showing tracing and track laying on it (this is before screwing it down and before I went along the track edges with hobby knife).  Here is a pre-scenery picture.

Back to the homosote, it's advantage is being ridged enough where you can screw right into it with track, signals, or scenery.  I also made sure my screws securing realtrax didnt penetrate the plywood.  I don't know how much difference it would have made but it makessense  to prevent the sound from traveling.

Ahhh okay, now I see what you're talking about LiteGide.  So is it pretty quiet then?  I guess mine will be somewhat noisy anyway with my old conventional Lionels running on it

Mike,

   It took me a long time to give into the carpet myself, choosing a different direction I would use the used sound supressing ceiling tile and cover the entire platform, especially with FasTrack or a combo of both FasTrack and RealTrax, at one time I even doubled the ceiling tile, Russell is absolutely correct about how it works, it deadens the noise from FasTrack & RealTrax, probably better than anything else, and it is easy to build on.  However I usually go with the carpet on the formal living room layout, cause it is cheaper and quicker. With the bigger office & game room layout, I used no sound supression, I wanted to know immediately when the kids were in the game room running the DCS train layout.

PCRR/Dave

I went with FasTrack for my 15' X 28' layout. After I committed to FasTrack I started reading about all the noise problems. I haven’t gotten to the point on my layout where I can run long trains yet, just tweaking the design to make sure the Big Boy can travel around both loops. I used homosote on my n-scale layout and thought it was too messy and hard to work with. On my O-scale I used 1" green foam. Lowe's sells this color and it comes in 4' X 8' sheets. I found a couple things in a fabric store that I bought to experiment with.  One item was sheets of black foam that was self stick on both sides.  The sheets are 2’ X 3’ and 1/8” thick.  There is a peal off cover on both sides.  The other item of interest is carpet that is used to line the trunk of a car.  It’s about 1/8” thick and on a 6’ wide roll.  The carpet is gray.  I think I can paint it whatever color I choose and cover it with ground foam.

I did what litegide24 did.  I have a 5x13 all Fastrack layout and bought from Scenic Express their Woodland Scenic foam roadbed in 24 ft rolls.  The catch, for Fastrack anyway, is a single strip is not wide enough so I had to double up.  For Fastrack noise this helps somewhat but I run moslty command and don't really run the trains fast.  I am happy with the results. 

Has anyone tried this stuff http://www.lowes.com/pd_13280-...30&Ntt=sill+foam for sound deadening?

litegide24,

I went to Home Depot and Lowes in my area and can not find that 2 inch wide foam on a roll tape you used. Does it have a Name Brand or Model Number maybe ?

I want to use this on my layout to quite things down. I am using Fastrack and this is my 1st layout since I was a younger kid. The setup is in my basement, but I still want to quite it down. I used OSB and then Homosote over the complete layout. It's not really that bad , but quitter is better.

I await you reply.

Thanks in advance.

BradFish1,

I just asked litegide24 if he can tell us what the name brand of that tape he used

on his layout. I like that better because you can stick it down and work better with it.

I just saw that Blue Stuff tonight at Lowes. I think that will work also to deaden sound but no sticky tape on it.

Mike,

I covered the plywood with Homasote. Yes, it's expensive (about $25 per 4x8 sheet), but it's also very quiet, and holds fasteners well. Just ask yourself if it's worth the extra money now to have years of enjoyment. Best of luck.

Andy

Bradfish1 and Brian,

The sill foam is not dense enough. What litgide24 was using is found at plumbing and heating suppliers. It is adhesive backed foam insulation tape. Here is a link to a similar product at Fastenal. It will work nicely as was described.

You can also mail order a sound product in various widths here: SSP Black Vinyl Nitrile.  It's very similar. Whichever is easiest for you.

There are two dynamics at work here.  Creation of sound & abatement of sound.

With any hollow rail track you will be greatly amplifying wheel/rail sound.

Sound attenuation is best when brought down to the acceptable level of other adults sharing the living quarters. 

Tubular track trains are unarguably noisy.  To us they can be a form of nostalgic music, however it may be considerably less than that to others.

There are many ways to help reduce noise levels. 

Among them: solid construction, thick carpet & pad floor covering, soft wall covering, cookie cutter instead of a full sheet plywood drum, minimum plywood thickness 3/4", California Homabed roadbed over a sheet of sound deadener (I use Homosote).

To witness the greatest sound difference in 0 gauge visit a large 3 rail layout and then visit a large 2 rail layout.  (I am guessing that 99.9% of all two rail layouts are solid rail.)  The difference is amazing!

Atlas solid nickle silver three rail is the quietest o gauge track I have worked with.

Thanks for the replies everybody

- Mike

Yes Mike, I'm covering the entire surface, and the only noises I hear are the engines themselves, bells, whistles, cab chatter, etc. Good luck With the layout. FYI, I'm using Atlas track.

Andy