Polar Express RPO 1927351 Blue is very light compared to 2019 V1 PE cars

I thought it looked lighter which makes me concerned for the added coaches that were offered in the 2019 Signature catalog.  This will not fly if the blue is incorrect on the coaches as well.  I bought the RPO as well and haven't had a chance to dig out the coaches.  If they are the wrong blue, I'd rather have them kept in Concord and have new shells installed before I even get them.

Can Ryan confirm if the coaches blue will match the RPO or the previous coaches? @Conrail6358

MartyE posted:

I thought it looked lighter which makes me concerned for the added coaches that were offered in the catalog.  This will not fly if the blue is incorrect.  I bought it as well and haven't had a chance to dig out the coaches.

Can Ryan confirm if the coaches blue will match the RPO or the previous coaches? @Conrail6358

I'm glad you thought so too.  The difference sticks out like spats at an Iowa picnic.  Hopefully Ryan or someone can confirm.

I noticed the pale blue color on the RPO cars as well.

FWIW: Lionel offered the scale PE RPO car to match both the scale PE 2019 cars as well as the scale PE 2009-2014 issued cars (snow on roof and no-snow, respectively).

I really hope Lionel didn't mess this up.

There's additional scale PE cars due out later this year.

Here is the comparison guys!

Well that stinks.  Hopefully the RPOs are the exception and not the rule for the add on coaches or this could be ugly.

MartyE posted:

Well that stinks.  Hopefully the RPOs are the exception and not the rule for the add on coaches or this could be ugly.

I'm with Marty.  Might be able to get away with it because it is the RPO and is the lead.  However if the other 2 are the same, it is past ugly.  Can't explain that one away.

Now I see what members post when they say paints don't match.  I've never seen it myself until last night when I put the RPO on the shelf with the original cars from 2017.

That color variation is not good. This shouldn't be rocket science. My local hardware store can match old color samples with new ones to a very exact degree.

If memory serves me correctly, the previous  cars were made in the plant that closed.

The new plant should have been able to match the colors if that’s the case. Either way it will be unacceptable to me and I’m sure many others. 

Thanks for the heads up Bryant. I hadn't had time to look at the two together until now. Note that my cars are the newer snow covered cars. Yes, this is unacceptable!!!
I really hate that this stuff is happening!

Big Jim posted:

Thanks for the heads up Bryant. I hadn't had time to look at the two together until now. Note that my cars are the newer snow covered cars. Yes, this is unacceptable!!!
I really hate that this stuff is happening!

I took some pictures of the 2017 set with the RPO.  If the other 2 add ons are similar to the RPO we will in effect have 2 sets.  Not close.  My dealer is not aware

I also wonder what the BiPolar will end up looking like. I certainly do not want to hear, "send it back for a refund" from Lionel. I would like some assurances that the new coaches and the BiPolar will match even if I have to wait longer for them.

I think also with the N&W tool car being lighter in color makes me wonder what the J will look like. 

Could anyone tell me how this car compares in size to both the original Madison AND the Baby Madison cars? Thanks.

artyoung posted:

Could anyone tell me how this car compares in size to both the original Madison AND the Baby Madison cars? Thanks.

These heavyweight cars are about 19" long coupler to coupler.

Neither the blue nor the red match. It’s not even close. I don’t want the one I pre-ordered. 

While I am concerned about this as I have a lot invested in the add on cars and BiPolar, let's try to keep the thread respectful and on topic.  So far it's been a good thread.

  I would hope we can get Ryan @Conrail6358 to comment and let us know what is happening.  Again if they end up delaying the add on coaches and the BiPolar, I'd be happy as long as they match the previous runs.

Sorry, Marty, certainly didn’t mean anything that wasn’t respectful and my comments (at least to me) seem within the context and spirit of the OP.  Specifically, I preordered a black roof RPO that was marketed as an add-on to my black roof heavyweights and the colors of the as-built product aren’t even close. Because of that, I really don’t have a use for it. 

Rider

I didn't see anything wrong with any of the comments so far but these issues tend to end up into some very understandably upset people making the thread turn ugly.  When you wait for an item and there turns out to be a very blatant mistake it can be very frustrating. I know I am currently and concerned for the other cars and BiPolar yet to be released.

Again the thread has been very good with folks just voicing their opinions and experience as well as what they intend to do.  I'm just hoping it can continue down this path so we can hopefully get some results from Lionel rather than just have the thread turning ugly and personal.  It doesn't do anyone any good if the moderators have to lock or delete it.

BobbyD posted:

artyoung posted:

Could anyone tell me how this car compares in size to both the original Madison AND the Baby Madison cars? Thanks.

These heavyweight cars are about 19" long coupler to coupler.

So this RPO is MUCH bigger than the smaller cars. Oh well, I'd been hoping to add one to my Williams and Lionel B&O sets after a repaint.

fwiw: I called Lionel service this morning and explained the color variations...the cordial customer service rep was able to see the difference in blue colors. He said he will check and get back to me. I encourage everyone else to do the same. The thought of returning my RPO cars to my dealer occurred to me, but I will wait until Lionel gives a reply.

I also checked my scale heavyweights as well as my traditional sized PE coaches, and they are all a deeper shade of blue.

Someone expressed to me privately that the RPO "powder blue" color as I call it, may be more representative of the actual PE car portrayed in the movie and/or book. In my opinion, this is a remote possibility. But, before I chalk the color mix-match up to a gaffe on Lionel's design or production, it should be verified, however I don't have the time right now to do so. If I don't hear back from Lionel within a week, I'll give them another call.  

Thanks for the update, Paul. The RPOs were clearly marketed as add-ons to the existing cars (both white and black roof) in both the catalog and the web shows supplementing the catalog. As such, I agree with your skepticism and simply cannot believe the colors were intentionally changed to make it “more prototypical” - especially since the “prototype” is an animated movie!  When the white roof heavyweights were announced in 2017, they were described as being more reflective of the cars from the movie (the location of the lettering changed). Given that, I would assume any further intentional changes to reflect the “prototype” would also have been specifically touted. Thanks again for making the call. 

Paul Kallus posted:

fwiw: I called Lionel service this morning and explained the color variations...the cordial customer service rep was able to see the difference in blue colors. He said he will check and get back to me. I encourage everyone else to do the same. The thought of returning my RPO cars to my dealer occurred to me, but I will wait until Lionel gives a reply.

I also checked my scale heavyweights as well as my traditional sized PE coaches, and they are all a deeper shade of blue.

Someone expressed to me privately that the RPO "powder blue" color as I call it, may be more representative of the actual PE car portrayed in the movie and/or book. In my opinion, this is a remote possibility. But, before I chalk the color mix-match up to a gaffe on Lionel's design or production, it should be verified, however I don't have the time right now to do so. If I don't hear back from Lionel within a week, I'll give them another call.  

In addition to Rider, I thank you for making the call.

I am reluctant to put the ownness on the dealer for potential refund, because they were uninformed of the difference.  I suspect, anything they take in return will be stuck with them.  That does not sit well with me and the relationships I have built with some of the dealers.

They did right with the ALCO and Challenger episodes.  I would think Lionel will respond.  Hopefully within a week I can take the RPO and one of the 2017 cars to York with me to show them.  I suspect they are aware.  I have patience and like the others, will wait to hear form the professionals.

artyoung posted:

BobbyD posted:

artyoung posted:

Could anyone tell me how this car compares in size to both the original Madison AND the Baby Madison cars? Thanks.

These heavyweight cars are about 19" long coupler to coupler.

So this RPO is MUCH bigger than the smaller cars. Oh well, I'd been hoping to add one to my Williams and Lionel B&O sets after a repaint.

The RPO car is shorter, about 16-1/4" long.  Guessing those smaller cars you mention are narrower in width.

Paul

Looking forward to what you hear from Lionel.

Thanks

Anyone hear any update on the new coaches?  I'd hate for this to be forgotten about until they come in and we do this all over again.

@Conrail6358  Ryan can you tell us if the new coaches will match the previous runs or the new RPO car?

Thanks in advance.

MartyE posted:

Anyone hear any update on the new coaches?  I'd hate for this to be forgotten about until they come in and we do this all over again.

@Conrail6358  Ryan can you tell us if the new coaches will match the previous runs or the new RPO car?

Thanks in advance.

I hope before York.  I really don’t think they want someone in their booth with the 2017 car and this RPO.  My concern is that our dealers getting stuck and “holding the bag” if returned.  Yesterday I asked L and they were uncertain if L would refund the dealers or distributors.  Hopefully the other 2 cars have been or will be rectified.

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

I hope before York.  I really don’t think they want someone in their booth with the 2017 car and this RPO.  My concern is that our dealers getting stuck and “holding the bag” if returned.  Yesterday I asked L and they were uncertain if L would refund the dealers or distributors.  Hopefully the other 2 cars have been or will be rectified.

I think I could weather the RPO car and come up with an acceptable look, not that I should have to, as long as the latest add-on scale passenger cars are correct to the past offerings.  Unfortunately if not back it goes.  The RPO car has yet to leave the dealer until this is resolved one way or another.  It might have to go back if we don't hear something soon.  I'll have to let my dealer decide whether he wants to let me wait.

I'll be calling Lionel today to support Paul's effort because as Alan stated on another thread, complaining here won't have the biggest impact. I just want to make sure the passenger cars don't hold the same fate. 

Rider Sandman posted:

Thanks for the update, Paul. The RPOs were clearly marketed as add-ons to the existing cars (both white and black roof) in both the catalog and the web shows supplementing the catalog. As such, I agree with your skepticism and simply cannot believe the colors were intentionally changed to make it “more prototypical” - especially since the “prototype” is an animated movie!  When the white roof heavyweights were announced in 2017, they were described as being more reflective of the cars from the movie (the location of the lettering changed). Given that, I would assume any further intentional changes to reflect the “prototype” would also have been specifically touted. Thanks again for making the call. 

That was my first thought. However, for those of you who bought this as an add on, I can certainly understand your disappointment.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out...

Mark in Oregon

Strummer posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Thanks for the update, Paul. The RPOs were clearly marketed as add-ons to the existing cars (both white and black roof) in both the catalog and the web shows supplementing the catalog. As such, I agree with your skepticism and simply cannot believe the colors were intentionally changed to make it “more prototypical” - especially since the “prototype” is an animated movie!  When the white roof heavyweights were announced in 2017, they were described as being more reflective of the cars from the movie (the location of the lettering changed). Given that, I would assume any further intentional changes to reflect the “prototype” would also have been specifically touted. Thanks again for making the call. 

That was my first thought. However, for those of you who bought this as an add on, I can certainly understand your disappointment.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out...

Mark in Oregon

Hello Mark.  On both the Dave & Ryan vid and the Notch 6 podcast relating to the catalog release, the RPOs were touted as add-ons. “For those of you with the original release of the passenger cars, we’ve offered one in a black roof.” (Or something close to that). Purposefully changing the colors would be in direct contradiction to this notion. This is not a bash comment, but it’s been fairly well documented that Lionel has had many color mistakes recently. I think the obvious answer is the correct one: this is another one of them. 

MartyE posted:

Anyone hear any update on the new coaches?  I'd hate for this to be forgotten about until they come in and we do this all over again.

@Conrail6358  Ryan can you tell us if the new coaches will match the previous runs or the new RPO car?

Thanks in advance.

MartyE,
FWIW, this is the answer that I received from my dealer;

"Apparently the 16” RPOs are made in a different factory than the 18”.  So the answer on the two coming is that they should match last years set. "

OK, if you all think those blues are different, here is what the Grand Canyon Railway is repainting their Polar Express cars to:

Big Jim posted:

MartyE posted:

Anyone hear any update on the new coaches?  I'd hate for this to be forgotten about until they come in and we do this all over again.

@Conrail6358  Ryan can you tell us if the new coaches will match the previous runs or the new RPO car?

Thanks in advance.

MartyE,
FWIW, this is the answer that I received from my dealer;

"Apparently the 16” RPOs are made in a different factory than the 18”.  So the answer on the two coming is that they should match last years set. "

Jim

Thanks for that information.  I would hope someone from Lionel could verify this.  It would certainly make a difference on me keeping the RPO car.

I am still waiting for a response from Lionel. I informed my dealer, too. If I don't hear anything by Friday, I'll give Lionel and my dealer a call.

While the different factory in China making the RPO vs. the Heavyweights may be the "final answer", it doesn't alleviate the issue with the now finished RPO cars. These are $120+ cars and we have a reasonable expectation that they'll match the livery they were designed for.

As an aside, I encourage everyone to call their dealer and Lionel about this. It has long been my belief that 1/3 to 1/2 of new train purchases are never opened nor inspected until a year or more after receipt, and thus the manufacturers/importers never get the full consumer view point of quality control, or lack thereof.

Paul Kallus posted:

I am still waiting for a response from Lionel. I informed my dealer, too. If I don't hear anything by Friday, I'll give Lionel and my dealer a call.

While the different factory in China making the RPO vs. the Heavyweights may be the "final answer", it doesn't alleviate the issue with the now finished RPO cars. These are $120+ cars and we have a reasonable expectation that they'll match the livery they were designed for.

As an aside, I encourage everyone to call their dealer and Lionel about this. It has long been my belief that 1/3 to 1/2 of new train purchases are never opened nor inspected until a year or more after receipt, and thus the manufacturers/importers never get the full consumer view point of quality control, or lack thereof.

If you are the one here that posted having an earlier conversation with Aaron at Lionel, don't run for the phone.  As of yesterday Katie with Lionel had not heard a peep of this.  Even from other personnel.  I told my dealer about the mismatch and they were clueless. 

Like Marty, if the other 2 are correct, great.  I can look at a tint dulcote on the RPO to try to tone it down a bit.  I would not even consider doing that to the other 2 cars.  An RPO can be a bit off.  Not the others.  I think this will all come to a head when the other 2 come out.  I was hoping that they would come out before York.  To add insult to injury, I bet they release Thanksgiving week or close to Christmas.  Right when you want to show the set off with visitors and friends.

I guess we stay tuned for further developments.

I just spoke with Lionel.  While I didn't ask to share what was conveyed to me, I'll leave that to Lionel to hopefully do,  but I got off the phone feeling much better by what was conveyed to me.  IMO it never hurts to call and be polite and let them know how you feel or what your concerns are.

Personally I think this thread could be closed until Lionel possibly has something to add.  That's certainly up to the moderators.

MartyE posted:

I just spoke with Lionel.  While I didn't ask to share what was conveyed to me, I'll leave that to Lionel to hopefully do,  but I got off the phone feeling much better by what was conveyed to me.  IMO it never hurts to call and be polite and let them know how you feel or what your concerns are.

Personally I think this thread could be closed until Lionel possibly has something to add.  That's certainly up to the moderators.

Are you feeling better about your RPO or your upcoming cars or both?

Rider Sandman posted:

Are you feeling better about your RPO or your upcoming cars or both?

Both.  We'll see what happens.

Thanks Marty!

I got off the phone cautiously optimistic.  That's the best I can describe it.  Again, we'll see what happens.