Possibly the first ever electric toy trolley?

Hi Mark....

I am sure someone on our forum will have some idea as to its value but as a reminder, if you are looking to sell it, you must do so within the For Sale/Trade subforum/category. 

One of your best bets would be to contact one of the several collector's associations or auction houses to see if someone within their ranks can give you some idea to the worth.  Ultimately, you will need to establish what you feel is a fair price....

Alan

I would be surprised if the Seashore Trolley Museum wouldn't be willing to add it to their collection.  It's been years since I've been up there, but I think they have stuff on display in the main station house

https://www.trolleymuseum.org/

Hello Alan,

Not being a model railroader, I wouldn't know what words to use to search for collectors associations. Google hasn't turned up any model trolley museums or forums so far, which is the reason I came here, hoping you folks might educate me.

As it stands now, I'm doing research, not actively trying to sell it. I will pull the post if you perceive it as in violation of forum rules, with apologies.

Best,

Mark

Actually, Seashore Trolley Museum and Shoreline Trolley Museum in Branford, CT were the 2 museums I contacted first. I especially expected some interest from Shoreline due to the local nature of the toy, but neither bothered to reply.

Looking over their collections they seem mostly interested in 1/1 scale artifacts though.

Thanks for the reply.

Mark

Have you contacted the TCA museum in Strasburg, Pa. ??  There is a big trolley museum in Washington, Pa, too.

I don't know where you live, but this is another Trolley Museum in Scranton, PA.

http://www.ectma.org/museum.html

Is that the trolley that was powered by the caternary and trolley wheel? I think I saw that in a TM video on Ward Kimball. That thing was spitting out sparks like crazy. No way that thing could be sold today.

This toy has never been run since my Dad acquired it in the early 1970s. It was displayed in a climate controlled display case until recently. I wouldn't know how to determine the voltage and whether it runs on AC or DC, although the motor is still inside.

Mark,

Take this for what it is worth. This is a relatively small piece with a long family history all well documented. It deserves prominent shelf space in your home and to be passed on to someone in the extended family when the time comes.

Money is not everything, memories and history are. Keep it!

That looks like a good possibility. They at least have scale replicas and set ups. Unfortunately this thing wasn't built to any particular scale. I'll contact them.

I'm in Maine, however and would prefer it stay in Ct or at least New England if possible.

Thanks!

Perhaps the National Toy Train Museum would be interested.

The museum is owned and operated by the Train Collectors Association, a non-profit organization, headquartered in Pennsylvania.

Great piece and thanks for sharing the pics and info.

I understand your desire to have the trolley go to a good home where it will be viewed and appreciated.

However, be warned that museums are notorious for seriously "low balling" on purchases. Few small museums have a budget to pay true market value for antiques and collectibles, but rely mainly on donations. My guess is when you contact the trolley museums they will ask you to donate the trolley in exchange for a tax write off.

You would do a lot better offering the trolley to a reputable toy auction house like Morphy's or Noel Barrett. With the solid provenance it should do very well.

http://www.morphyauctions.com/

http://www.noelbarrett.com/

And by the way, is there anyway we could see a pic of the underneath and the motor? The hand painted body is great, but the 1895 motor is what gives this piece any real historical importance. Any potential buyer, and especially a museum, is going to want to see the motor. And from looking at the photos there is a very high probability that a Carlisle and Finch motor is hiding under that bodywork.

Good luck.

Adding to MrNabisco's comments:  Museums are also notorious for selling off lots of great items for whatever reason.  So it could end up most anywhere if that route is chosen.

You do have a wonderful little piece there, and personally, I think the large toy/train auction houses would be your best route if you do decide not to keep it in the family.

The Bridgeport Traction Company was a streetcar transit company in the area aroundBridgeport, Connecticut. The company was incorporated in 1893 through the consolidation of the Bridgeport Horse Railroad Company, Bridgeport Railway Company, and the East End Railway Company. The East End Railway Company was established in 1895 as theBridgeport and West Stratford Horse Railroad Company. The Bridgeport Horse Railroad Company was incorporated in 1864. The Bridgeport Railway Company was formed in 1893.^[1] At the time, streetcars were a more affordable form of transportation for those commuting between Bridgeport and Norwalk. Using streetcars to get to their destination was half the price of using the train.^[2] In 1899 president Andrew Radel formed a company that was intended to control the world's oyster trade.^[3]

In 1901, Bridgeport Traction Company was sold to the Connecticut Railway and Lighting Company. From 1906 to 1936, its routes were controlled by the Connecticut Company, a subsidiary of the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad which controlled many of the streetcar operators across the state. The leases on the former Connecticut Railway and Lighting Co. routes were voided in 1936 for nonpayment while the New Haven was in receivership.^[4] CR&L resumed operation under its own name, and streetcar lines in Bridgeport, Derby, and Waterbury were replaced with buses in 1937.^[5] Bus transit operations continued until 1972. The transit franchises were succeeded by the Greater Bridgeport Transportation Authority soon after.

I help out at the Boothe Memorial Railway Society in Stratford CT. We are a volunteer group in the Town of Stratford's Boothe Park. We have operating layouts and static displays. We are a 501(c) (3). A trolley line ran past the Boothe homestead many many years ago.

If you have a desire to donate this item. Please contact me via email in my profile.

Thank you

Lots of great responses here, guys! Between the auction houses and the Toy Train and Trolley Museums I'll hopefully get a better idea of how desirable/ collectable/ valuable/ historic this thing is. I'll try to get some better pix, especially of the inside parts, but it's very delicate and I'm kinda clumsy, so if it turns out to be too much to get it open I'll have to pass on them.

Don, I'll keep you in mind. As it happens, we lived in Bridgeport for a few years in my youth. It'd be great to see this thing back in it's hometown.

Thanks to all!

In regards to photos of the underside/motor... I realize this is a delicate piece and in no way suggest trying to take it apart.

Perhaps you could just lie it on it's side on some padding or even have one person hold it sideways/upside down while another person takes a few quick shots. Just some pics for reference so whoever you pitch it to can get an idea of what the motor is. As I stated above, the motor really is where the historical importance is if this trolley really dates to 1895, which I'm not doubting, but seeing the motor will confirm this.

It would be very cool if it could stay in its home area. If donated, get a written agreement.

I was wondering why the Connecticut Company didn't run the transit at that time in Bridgeport. There were three or four different bus companies there until the GBTA took over.

quote:

If donated, get a written agreement

I would be surprised to learn that any museum would accept a donation with strings attached.

Not quite he same but our local museum has a beautifully restored Bantam BRC jeep and it is on the title that it can't be sold. Good thing, too because a director was going to sell it to get money to be paid. That will happen.

Mark,

As a fellow member at the Boothe Memorial Railway Society, I have to second Don's interest in having this to display in our museum.

We are a nationally recognized museum, located in a town park, and have been published as a place worth visiting in a recent model train magazine.  Sadly it wasn't OGR, but maybe some day... we're hoping!  Perhaps we could put together a story of its history, along with its donation to the BMRS museum that OGR might be interested in!

It could certainly be donated in your father's name, and would be displayed along with the story you've told us about it, and your father's name.  Our organization is all volunteer... no one gets paid.  We're just a group of train fans piecing together what we can of train/trolley history in our area.

I'm sure a written agreement that documents the donation along with the understanding that it would not be sold by BMRS would be possible.

Ed

ps. reading Don's history info brought back memories of riding the ol' CR&L buses!

unfortunately, it is near impossible to put an accurate dollar value on a unique hand crafted item, however, you can definitely scratch "worthless" off the list.  i would classify this piece as Folk Art.  even if it does represent a prototype, the detailing is very rough.  but do not take this as a criticism; it is very representative of the time period it was made. 

and that is where i believe it's collector value will come from.  1895 is extremely early for an electric, fractional HP motor.  Tesla patented the induction motor only seven years earlier.  it might be hard to fathom today, but 120 years ago, seeing a motor spin likely seemed magical to most people.  (if you read in one of the articles, a fan blade attached to a motor also elicited a major reaction from the public, ... an electric fan, imagine that!)

so although this is definitely a nice Folk Art Trolley, i believe someone interested in early electrical devices in general would find it most interesting.  i would definitely try to track down all the paperwork you can regarding the Barnum Award and i might also suggest getting in touch with the Barnum Museum in Bridgeport.  if they have any records, seeing this trolley was an early winner of the Barnum Prize, it might be the most appropriate resting place for this treasure.

good luck...gary

Wow, folk art and cutting edge technology all rolled into one. This is getting interesting!

Re-reading through the news clips, it appears the Barnum Prize was awarded for a separate event, an oratorical contest, not for the trolley. It looks like the various clips were assembled to record Lew's achievements, but weren't restricted to the trolley. I'll have to see what else I can dig up.

Thanks again for the input!

Wow, folk art and cutting edge technology all rolled into one. This is getting interesting!

 

Re-reading through the news clips, it appears the Barnum Prize was awarded for a separate event, an oratorical contest, not for the trolley. It looks like the various clips were assembled to record Lew's achievements, but weren't restricted to the trolley. I'll have to see what else I can dig up.

 

...

yes, i saw the prize was for his presentation of "Ten Years of Electricity", but i thought the trolley might have been a visual aid (sort of like a science fair deal).  it would be a long shot as photography was still in its early years, too, but a period photo of the trolley, especially with Mr Christie, would be a great piece of provenance.

if the roof is easily removable, it would be interesting to see the motor/ works.

Here is some interesting reading of a trolley crash in 1899. One of the bridge base is still visible just down the road from our museum. See here.

Might I suggest contacting the National Model Railroad Association's (NMRA) Model RR Museum, which is located with the Californis State Railroad Museum in Sacremento, California? While it would be better if it could stay in Connecticut at a trolley museum, I think the NMRA Museum is a good second choice, especially since it is a handmade model, not just a child's toy.

Bill in FtL

Okay guys, I've just shot a bunch of pix which I'll be sending out to the various museums along with my request for info, but here are the ones most pertinent to our discussion.

The track on the display stand is 3 3/4" wide and the rails are 1/4" wide. I suspect this is a cut out from the original oval track mentioned in the above articles. Power transferred from an overhead rod through the spring loaded arm to the motor and out to ground through a rail.

Here is the bottom with the ground strap and the ball drive chain (a new one on me) visible. Also to the left is a small wheel that actuated the driver on that end. At one time the other driver was actuated as well, if I read the news blurb right.

Another shot of the ground strap and what appear to be hand brazed or soldered wheels and coil and home made leaf springs.

And now the money shot... the motor. It's obviously not original as it has bits of a manufacturer's tag left on it. The primary drive is a continuous piece of string. The gears appear to be manufactured as well. The loose wire connects to the pickup on the roof for operation.

A close up of the drive gear arrangement and that funky, cool ball drive chain...

Close up of the motor...anyone recognize it?

I'm not sure how the brakemen are constructed, but they look very fragile. One is still operational.

Lastly, a terrible picture of the roof and power pickup (for lack of a better term). Everything here is obviously home made.

That's all folks! Good night!

The ball drive chain which I believe is bead chain. First made in Austria but later, after your date made by Bead chain  in Bridgeport CT.

yup... it's an A.C.Gilbert motor similar to the Erector P56G motor used in the 1920's, but actually from a product in Gilbert's "Polar Cub" product line which included electric fans and vibrators.

so it looks like this trolley was definitely rebuilt with a different motor and maybe more which is a shame.  it would have been much more interesting if the original motor (even if not working) were still inside.

oh well... still a nice piece of Folk Art, but its significance as a 19th century innovative electric model is all but gone.

I second overlandflyer's comments. Without the original motor the trolley has turned into a family display piece... Cute, but neither historically significant nor valuable.

Actually, looking at the wood base from both inside and out, I see no extra holes, stains or markings to indicate that the trolley ever had any motor and drive train other than what is in it now. This leads me to believe that the trolley is not connected to the 1895 article at all, and was actually constructed in the 1920's or later. Having errant paperwork attached to antique items is very common, as are exaggerated family stories...

And after looking again, I see the pulley with the string to the motor may be aluminum. And some gearshaft mounts look aluminum too.This dates the drive train even later... When were aluminum pulleys available?

In my opinion, I don't see this as a toy dating from 1895.

Put it on display and enjoy it.