Post war motor performance

sometimes a shot of WD40 in the gear areas of the motors/trucks will loosen up old lube and enable the engines to resume correct performance after a warm up.

The "gear meshing" problem may be be hardened grease/oil that is binding the gears.  Could be an issue it the other, too, for that matter.   I'd take them apart and inspect/clean/lube them well and see if that does not improve things. 

You are describing a known problem with those engines. Lionel has a fix in their factory service manual. The reference is for a different loco, but the construction and problem is the same.

Here it is.

Rather than center punching, as Lionel suggests, I used to wedge paper matchsticks between the bottom plate and the motor frame to the same effect.

I am certain folks with chime in with other solutions.

Wow, thanks for the quick response.  I should have mentioned that both have been opened up and cleaned.  By cleaned I mean old grease removed and each gear individually cleaned with a fine blade screwdriver to remove the gunk.    I will have to put down a loop of 027 track and just let them circle for a bit to see of things improve.  

Have you tried to bench test these engines?

Look for excessive sparks around the brush contact area, as this can be poor contact to the armature because of not enough spring tension on the brushes. This is mainly a problem with American Flyer motors but can also happen to Lionel engines.

Stretch your springs out a little by hand, make sure both are about the same length and replace them in the motor area.

Lee Fritz

CW, thank you.  That is a fix that was unknown to me and gives me a terrific potential fix to try.  Phillyreading, thanks but this is a mechanical issue in both cases.  I will report back in a day or so with the outcome.

necrails,

OK Fine!, so you cleaned out all of the built up crud in the bottom end. What did you do if anything on the top end?

Please do! Keep us up to date with your findings. It seems that you know more than the rest of us.

"Pappy"

pappy, cleaned entire motor, top and bottom.  I use the OG mag article from years back that provides a process that is simple and methodical.  Surprisingly there was very little gunk in either motor.  There are no frayed wires or split insulation, brushes are in decent shape, the top of the motor that everyone advises to clean with some form of non abrasive has been cleaned, the motor winding is clean.  For the purpose of testing I am locking out the e unit so the motor only moves in a single direction and yes I checked to make sure it is not locked in neutral.  These motors should be bullet proof so I expect to find a solution.  Anything mechanical can be fixed with enough time and beer.

Just because the E-Units cycle nice doesn't mean they are working correctly. A good disassembly and cleaning is probably due. Did you spin the wheels in the chassis with the motor removed to see they turned freely? Same with the armature did you give it a spin by hand and ensure it spun freely?

Gandy

As I wrote above, the issue described by Necrails is a common and well known problem for that style motor.

Necrails can confirm it by getting the motor running in the troublesome direction, and turning it upside down. Take a finger and firmly  push the black bottom plate to one side. If the motor speeds up, you've identified the problem. If the motor still runs poorly, or gets worse, try pushing it to the other side.

As I also noted above, using headless paper matches to push the bottom plate in the correct direction is one way to tighten up the bottom plate. I haven't had one fall out.

The problem with center punching, as Lionel advised, is the difficulty in undoing a mistake .

If this test doesn't show that a loose bottom plate is the problem, then it certainly could be caused by the other things mentioned.

The problem is the lower bearing plate is floating in the stamped aluminum motor side frames as the factory staking has worked loose over the years.  The old Lionel fix for this was to "dent" the side frames with a punch, some shops used cardstock jammed in to firm up the plate.

I have had good luck using tiny black anodized self-tapping screws into drilled pilot holes to hold the bearing in place.

For a non-destructive fix, my latest method, though, beats them all.  Using the CRC QD or any non-residue contact cleaner, clean ALL oil & residue from between the sideframes & the bearing, using the nozzle to spray into the crevice.  Dry it out well, several hours or overnight.

Now use the regular "thin"(not gel) CA adhesive("Super Glue", Eastman 910, etc.) and flow the cement into the crevice on both sides, letting it creep in by capillary action to fill the gap.

In about 10 minutes, the loco is ready to be lubed(grease on gears, oil on pivots & bearings/axles) and will run like new.