Premier 4-6-2 power on only shows tender lights

You might try a conventional reset--no DCS signal turned off (or TIU bypassed) and power applied to track.  If I recall, it's 1 whistle and 5 bell button pushes, 1/2 second apart, after which engiine should give 2 toots.  If it doesn't try again

Check to see if the DCC/DCS switch is in the wrong position.

John,

even conventional and DCS Explorer give me no response except tender marker lights.  No system will give me start up or any reaction other than the tender markers . Even the DCS Explorer tells me no engine when I try to add an MTH engine.

The only other observation I had, was that the tender board was getting fairly warm while sitting on the test track with the power on .  No smoke , no burning smell .

I remembered on one of the forum posts that the DCS / DCC SWITCH was sometimes unreliable.  I removed the wired connector from the switch to the tender board and replaced it with a standard DCS board connector in hopes of something good happening.    Nope.

The only history I have on this engine was that the original owner  told the dealer that it ran for a short period of time and then quit. No specific reason.  🤔🤐

Other than a board issue  ( ? ) I can't find anything that stands out.

I didn't say run it conventional; I said try a conventional reset.  A search on MTH's website discloses no such loco as a 20-3463. 

It was found in the 2011 vol. 2 cat.  It's a green SOUTHERN CRESCENT LIMITED.  

It was offered as a set with four passenger cars.  The MTH site shows that it was retail at $ 999.95.

I'll go warm up the DCS and try that conventional reset .🙄

Tried the conventional reset  four times , but I'm really confused as to how the the reset is supposed to be assigned when the test track can't locate the engine.  I keep getting  NO  DCS  ENGINE ON TRACK .    I see the thing setting on the track and those darn tender marker lights being lit by the powered track and the different devices say it's not there.

I'm almost ready to see what a cold Yuengling has to say about what isn't on the track !!!  🤤

You didn't read what I said.  The tiu has to be out of the circuit and you don't use the remote.  Transformer wired straight to track.  Don't have any other engines on powered track.

Is this a PS-2 3V engine or the PS-3?  Implication is PS-3.  I imagine the board is dead and there is some sort of short that has the markers turned on.  For them to come on the engine has power and is transferring AC power to the tender board. 

The conventional reset is a red herring.   Yes you test it conventionally with no TIU or DCS signal in place.  Does it start up.  If not.  You can't do a conventional reset.  If this died at the dealer, why do you think it should work for you?

I would send the tender and boiler board to a tech and have it tested.  G

Thanks G.

It is indeed a PS-3.       It does not start up.   

I was at the dealer waiting for a return from MTH and the dealer had this engine returned from a customer after it died on him .  My dealer thought it was maybe a drawbar issue since the engine was reported as running for a little while  . I had a similar type of connection at one of my engines and I was able to resolve it with a little work so he asked me to look at it.

I did tests first with the VOM and found issues with poor grounds and loose middle rail pickups.  Got those worked out and decided to see about the drawbar.  Ended up using two of my known good drawbars with no change. 

I believe you are right about the boards. 

if you use a z4000 transformer when you power it up how much current does your engine draw? normally should draw around .3 milliamps is normal. might go to .7 mill amp momentarily while capacitor is charging then should drop off to .3 amps!

Alan P.S.

if you have a local mth repair shop near you have them test your ps 3 boards and they can tell you if the boards are ok or not.

Hi Alan,

Don't have a z4000.........but Judy just read your post with me and I told her what the price that thing comes in at and she asked me  "  WHY  DON'T  YOU  GET  ONE  "". 😍 ( that dealer friend of mine said he never saw a wife like mine......he said the wives usually are dragging the husbands away from the model RR stuff. )

ANYWAY...........the tech is about a 30 minute drive. He said he's been collecting for 20 years . I'd estimate he has about 2 or 3 hundred thousand dollars worth of engines and cars just on the walls of three adjoining rooms around his layout.........but .... right now he is going through a really messy DIVORCE.  🤕  I'll  have to get a hold of him soon.

I'll have to save your post in the event of a z4000 purchase , Alan

Thank you.

P.S.     Congrats on your ASC Tech MTH accomplishment. 🤓

You can save money by buying an AC ammeter instead of a Z4000.  But, assuming that GGG's diagnosis is correct, as it usually is, I don't know what it will really tell you about a cure.

RJ,

.??..?..The cure ???........$$$$$$$$$$$$$😨😨😨

Correct.  But as my sister says, "Be thankful when a cure can be obtained by spending money."

👍

RJ , 

I think I'll try your idea with the  AC ammeter. 

The z4000 looks really neato ....... but I like to operate everything  on all the layout with the DCS .

It seems from what I have been studying , the z4000 also needs to have the receiver to work with the DCS remote or purchase a separate remote system.   After looking at the online z4000 operator manual ,it seems that there is a lot of duplication of what i use now and an ammeter might be all that I would need, going by GGG's analysis. 

Track voltage and signal can be obtained of course by any of the 18 locomotive pieces on this layout. 

As always , all the guys on this forum are the best.

Thanks for the suggestion. 🤗

My personal belief, and others may differ, is that if everything is DCS, I would prefer one or 2 Lionel PH-180s to a Z4000.  I ave both.  The advantage of the Z4000 is that there is a device, sometimes called a Z4000 receiver and out of production for many years, that can use the DCS remote to control the output voltage of the Z4000's two outputs.  I replaced a postwar ZW with one PH-180, feeding 2 TIU channels that serve yards, and it is an excellent piece of equipment--fasterst breaker I have seen.

I've only had the DCS system for 3 years now .   I run an outside double over and under loop and an eight rail yard on Fixed 1 and an articulated figure eight and a six rail engine yard on Fixed 2 .   Each Fixed channel has it's own z1000.  I know it's overkill but I had an extra z1000 so I used it on my 90 inch test track with the Zcontroller or the DCS Explorer.   For the lighting and all the ITADs I use a 1034 Trainmaster

I know this is a BIG  NO - NO 😲, but I use TRACK  POWER 😲  for the nine switches on  Fixed 1 and  seven switches on Fixed 2 .

I run this fantasy world quite a bit throughout the year ......maintaining engines and rolling stock does cut into run time a little😐. 

I'd be telling stories if I didn't  have to set a breaker now and then on the z1000 bricks. No big issues with the engines from old Sparky though.

I'm probably living on borrowed time .  ( I mean the layout ! )

I don't know why you think you're living on borrowed time.  The MTH bricks have decent breakers.  On my layout is use external breakers on each of the 6 channels, with ratings slightly above the max draw.  I do not use smoke, which means 5 have 5 amp breakers and one has 7.5 amp.  I often run 3 trains on the latter.  But all my passenger cars now have led lighting.

RJR posted:

I don't know why you think you're living on borrowed time.  The MTH bricks have decent breakers. 

Define "decent".  The MTH bricks have standard thermal circuit breakers, and they're quite slow to react without a significant current overload.  I know multiple people that used the Z-1000 brick powering a TIU channel, and without faster circuit protection, they'd blow the 20A fuse in the TIU before the breaker on the Z-1000 brick trips.  That's not my definition of "decent".

Just put a 10 amp auto blade fuse inline with the MTH brick's output before the TIU's input. Problem solved. Don't wait until you fry something.

The switch motors and other accessories should be on separate power. They can degrade the DCS signal.

RJ, 

I guess I see all the different board problems or shorting switches on the forum and YouTube, etc .that give me a sense of paranoia when I walk into the layout room.  😁

John, 

I have seen examples of TIU fuse blowing and became  aware of how to replace the fuses. So far I've been OK with no issues.          The one thing I did see that I wondered about were a couple examples in the areas of the red and black TIU input terminals melting. What would cause this ?

that happens when your inside terminal of the transformer become loose and because there loose that cause poor connection which develops resistance which causes a voltage drop and where there is resistance creates heat and get so hot it melts the plastic and then they warp or melt!

that's why it is important to keep all terminals tight and not able to be moved with loosening with a wrench!

common problem for people who don't keep the terminals tight inside the transformer!

Alan 

E.Joe ,

This sounds like a really good solution .

Be patient with me here Joe .  I'm  a slow learner .   The track ( where the short comes from ) is wired to the out puts on the TIU and the inputs come from the brick where the 10 amp blade fuse is supposed to be.  This makes me look at what I have set up and wonder why the spikes to my tripping bricks aren't blowing things in my TIU already .

Looking at the wire coming from the brick out put, I wonder if the fuse has to go in the red or black wire.

This thread is really getting a good stretch Alan.

That's why I like to see a  mechanical connection combined with a good soldering.    

I use banana connectors on the input jacks of the TIU.    On the output side I have soldered wires that I insert into the holes on those jacks and have noticed over time the need to give them a little tweaking. 

DJ, what you use on the outside of the TIU probably has nothing to do with the melting which you mention and Alan discusses.  That's a different issue.  The original TIUs, Rev G, internally had wires soldered to the terminals.  Versions after Rev G have crimped leads held to the internal ends of the terminals with nuts.  The nuts loosen.  I learned to take all post-Rev-G TIUs apart & check the tightness.  Then I add atop the existing nuts internal start washers (star washers with the teeth facing the shaft rather than outward) and then a second nut as a lock nut.  These are metric and I'm sorry, I don't have the size at hand.

I've never blown a TIU fuse--the external breakers always open first. 

GRJ, you've convinced me that I erred and the Z-1000 breakers are indecent.  Not as bad as the postwar ZW but not within the concept of decency.  Once again I'll needle you to come up with a kit for an electronic circuit breaker as used in the PH-180.  My guess is that it would be a better seller than the track detector.  I'll order 8, one for each track channel and two for accessory circuits.

EJ, I still think for the average O-gauge layout 10-amps is too large.  I also can't afford fuses; over tiem, the cost adds up.  Checking the blow tables, it doesn't appear that fuses blow any quicker than thermal breakers.

DJ, distinguish spikes from excessive current.  A spike is a very brief high voltage that is present when a ciruit is broken, which would include when a derailment of a moving train causes a string of sparks.  An overcurrent is a relatively continuous high amperage due to excessive draw, such as during a short circuit.  Breakers don't protect against surges, only overcurrent; the device to protect against a surge is called a TVS and it is connected between hot & common, rather than in series in the circuit.

WELL   GENTELMEN ,                                                                                          I've found  enough metric nuts to work on the inside of the TIU  as RJ spoke of.   I'll  have my " what did you do on your railroad today " project for this evening.

Thank you for all your input again.