Our dealer in Oberlin, oh got some nor sou. Es44's a few days ago.....I'm trying not to stop in to see em because I know 1 or2 will come home with me.....

I have a Premier ES44 from the NS Heritage runs a few years ago, so it's the same thing as the NS versions in this catalog except for the paint. Very nicely detailed engine with okay sounds IMO.

Central of Georgia from 2013 catalog..very nice GE. Cab,nose door open

The new release es44 are not suppose to be "the same thing" as the heritage units..... they should have an updated sound file ....

Jim Berger posted:

The new release es44 are not suppose to be "the same thing" as the heritage units..... they should have an updated sound file ....

Jim...are there additional features or changes in the file like engine or horn sounds?

Anticipating getting my GE 2010 hybrid. I am debating on the NS horse head also. Would love to hear the new sound file if anyone wants to share. 

willygee posted:

Central of Georgia from 2013 catalog..very nice GE. Cab,nose door open

The doors do open BUT on the incorrect side of the cab for what is suppose to be modeled!

Ron

ha..never noticed..i will just look at it with a rear view mirror...hmm not sure if that would work

willygee posted:

ha..never noticed..i will just look at it with a rear view mirror...hmm not sure if that would work

There are many incorrect details with the MTH NS-Heritage ES44's compared to the Lionel.  And I am a big MTH fan.  90 some % of my 126 powered units are MTH.  But Mike did NOT retool for the phase ES44's used then. 

I did a photo comparison of my Lionel NS/NKP unit to the MTH back in 2/9/2014 on the forum "NS/NKP Lionel Diesel Finally Arrived."

Ron

PRRronbh posted:

willygee posted:

ha..never noticed..i will just look at it with a rear view mirror...hmm not sure if that would work

There are many incorrect details with the MTH NS-Heritage ES44's compared to the Lionel.  And I am a big MTH fan.  90 some % of my 126 powered units are MTH.  But Mike did NOT retool for the phase ES44's used then. 

I did a photo comparison of my Lionel NS/NKP unit to the MTH back in 2/9/2014 on the forum "NS/NKP Lionel Diesel Finally Arrived."

 

Ron

I'll check it out...hey this door is on the same side

Jim Berger posted:

Our dealer in Oberlin, oh got some nor sou. Es44's a few days ago.....I'm trying not to stop in to see em because I know 1 or2 will come home with me.....

I know what you mean. There were several ES44's in that book that I wanted. But didn't order any of them because of my job situation. When I get full time work I'm just going to have to hope to find them.

Added links to afore mentioned Photo comparison.

NS/NKP Lionel vs MTH

About the same time was a tread on the MTH Premier Savannah & Atlanta.

Ron

I hope The CN ES44ACs come with the correct windshields. The MTH catalog shows them dipping down at the ends like the earlier CN ES44AC units. They were supposed to be shipped in Nov. 2015.

Does anyone have any reviews on the new NS ES44AC. Pics, videos, anything?

Still no word on the new premier ES44Ac's?

All quiet on the MTH ES44AC units.............

Saw the NS today at Nicholas Smith. Spectacular model!! 

Bill

NSBill posted:

Saw the NS today at Nicholas Smith. Spectacular model!! 

Bill

The nose door should be on the engineer's side for the road numbers MTH listed. Hope they got it right.

PAUL ROMANO posted:

NSBill posted:

Saw the NS today at Nicholas Smith. Spectacular model!! 

Bill

The nose door should be on the engineer's side for the road numbers MTH listed. Hope they got it right.

Paul it is far more than just the nose door.  Just look at the MTH RK ES44's and/or the thread I had referenced.

Ron

Thanks Ron, it is more than just a door issue on the MTH Premier NS ES44 units. I was really looking forward to this one being prototypically correct.

It may not be correct but it is still a nice model. How far off would the tooling be to do an ES40DC?

Bill

The operation of the Lionel Es44ac is a "bit" more pro-typical that the MTH version. The down lights stay lit as the LNL model moves forward then shuts off. the MTH version has no downlights. I dont know if that is enough for some to spend twice on the LNL version.

AlanRail posted:

The operation of the Lionel Es44ac is a "bit" more pro-typical that the MTH version. The down lights stay lit as the LNL model moves forward then shuts off. the MTH version has no downlights. I dont know if that is enough for some to spend twice on the LNL version.

 

"Twice"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?

Fortunately the MTH (non-powered) NKP unit I ordered from local dealer did not get shipped.  So I found a Lionel powered NKP unit to run with my 675.  I paid MSRP at $550 or 560(including shipping).  The MTH powered NKP has an MSRP of $450.  No where near twice and far more prototypical. Ron

TWICE hmmm I was thinking of the Hybrid versions.  I have now 5 LNL Es44acs and only one MTH Hybrid. 

 Looking on eBay there is listed a

MTH

• 30-20212-1, ES44AC Imperial Diesel Engine, Proto-Sound 3.0, Canadian Pacific

  • $296.95
    Was: $329.95

  • Lionel 6-82215 ES44AC Diesel - Santa Fe Warbonnet #440 

    
    

    Price:

  US $569.96

  MORE LIKE 1.72 TIMES  NOT TWICE!!

AlanRail posted:

TWICE hmmm I was thinking of the Hybrid versions.  I have now 5 LNL Es44acs and only one MTH Hybrid. 

 Looking on eBay there is listed a

MTH

• 30-20212-1, ES44AC Imperial Diesel Engine, Proto-Sound 3.0, Canadian Pacific

  • $296.95
    Was: $329.95

  • Lionel 6-82215 ES44AC Diesel - Santa Fe Warbonnet #440 

    
    

    Price:

  US $569.96

  MORE LIKE 1.72 TIMES  NOT TWICE!!

 Alan now you are comparing a Rail King to a Full size Lionel????

Ron

I saw that the 2nd NS unit, and both of the BNSF's are shipping this week Hopefully somebody can post video and/or pics of these. I'll have to start checking youtube.

Bill

NSBill posted:

It may not be correct but it is still a nice model. How far off would the tooling be to do an ES40DC?

Bill

The ES44AC and ES44DC bodies are the same. The difference is internal components AC or DC. MTH has used the same body for both. I don't believe there is an ES40DC.

PAUL ROMANO posted:

NSBill posted:

It may not be correct but it is still a nice model. How far off would the tooling be to do an ES40DC?

Bill

The ES44AC and ES44DC bodies are the same. The difference is internal components AC or DC. MTH has used the same body for both. I don't believe there is an ES40DC.

Paul,

The prototype ES40DC locomotive might have been a Norfolk Southern exclusive. I remember reading in a book by Brian Solomon that NS ordered Dash-9s & the later GE Evolution locomotives where the engine horsepower was limited to 4000 hp instead of the 4400 hp as in the other roads. So their versions had the markings of 9-40C, 9-40CW or ES40DC instead of the 9-44CW or ES44DC for comparable locomotives on other railroads. According to that book there was supposed to be a key in the cab that allowed these NS locomotives to produce 4400 hp if needed.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

@ Naveen  That is a mystery. I know NS had their ES44DC engines at 4000HP at one time. The new NS 2015-2016 Locomotive Directory (Withers) has them listed as 4400HP. There is no mention of NS having an ES40DC. Interesting I'll check more. 

As of 2014, all of NS's ES40DC's have been up-rated to 4400 HP, making them all ES44DC's now- 

PAUL ROMANO posted:

@ Naveen  That is a mystery. I know NS had their ES44DC engines at 4000HP at one time. The new NS 2015-2016 has them listed as 4400HP. There is no mention of NS having an ES40DC. Interesting I'll check more. 

Paul,

After searching on Google, it seems like CSX also had ordered ES40DC from GE, DC-traction locomotives that had engines derated to 4000 hp. All this was before NS switched to ordering AC-traction locomotives. So all the recent orders from GE including the ones painted in Heritage Schemes were all ES44AC.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Jeff & Paul,

I wasn’t aware of the recent uprate. If the locomotives had these changes while in service, would it result in any changes to the exterior, possibly a different marking? I remember following some discussion about an upcoming model locomotive from Sunset, where the prospective customers wanted to know if the models would be accurate for as-delivered looks from EMD or representing some changes that were made by the railroads while the locomotives were in service. As much as MTH makes an effort to make unique models for their Premier lines, I am not sure if they would care to capture these differences if the changes are not significant.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

NSBill posted:

It may not be correct but it is still a nice model. How far off would the tooling be to do an ES40DC?

Bill

NSbill,

That depends on whether you are interested in the CSX or NS versions of the ES40DC. Here are the exterior differences I was able to notice between the CSX ES40DC & the CSX ES44AC, besides the markings, ES40DC or ES44AC (ES44AH).

The ES40DC only had the GE Hi-Ad trucks & had 2 widely spaced vents on the long hood, on the conductor’s side.

The ES44AC only had the GE Radial trucks & 3 vents on the long hood, on the conductor’s side.

NS only ordered GE locomotives with Hi-Ad trucks so the differences between their ES40DC & ES44AC shouldn’t be as significant as the differences in the CSX versions.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

CSX has the lightning bolt next to the cab number to tell them apart from a distance. We strayed a little from the original thread but this was very interesting. Thanks guys. 

PAUL ROMANO posted:

@ Naveen  That is a mystery. I know NS had their ES44DC engines at 4000HP at one time. The new NS 2015-2016 Locomotive Directory (Withers) has them listed as 4400HP. There is no mention of NS having an ES40DC. Interesting I'll check more. 

Paul, NS had ES40DC's. When GE began making the GEVO NS had ordered them with 4000 hp (the same as a the Dash 9). Apparently they found the fuel, and maintenance costs were lower with the lower hp. As someone mentioned above they've uprated to 4400 hp.

Bill