Problems re NY Central Legacy # 2231550

Arnold, have you confirmed the tether is indeed coming unplugged when it enters your curves?….if you reseat it, does it go again at least for a moment?..

Pat

I have one of these. Part of the problem with the tether is the fact that the female receptacle isn't deep enough.

When plugging it in , it's as though it's only in part way.

I suppose it's designed this way so it can disconnect easily to minimize damage to the wires considering there is nothing to grab onto to remove.

Mine would drop into conventional and I would lose the front coupler until the plug was fully seated. This engine is flip flopped from every other Lionel legacy/tmcc steamer produced. All of the electronic goodies are in the tender. Including the antenna.

I put my thumbs on the front side of the cab and use the nails on my middle fingers on either side of the back edge of the plug and give it a firm squeeze.

Also be sure you have the drawbar connected to the slot at the end of the drawbar. Otherwise the deck plate will bind on the front of the tender on tighter than o-48 curves.

Either way between the large tether and the deck plate imo o-31 is tight for this engine.

Lionel never mentioned such a complex tether when this switcher was announced. I was under the assumption it would be comparable to the b6.

It may have been better to give us an updated 0-8-0 if the boards could have been put in the engine where they belong.  Then it could have the traditional bullet proof Lionel i.r. drawbar.

Had I known sooner than a couple of weeks before delivery about the 20 pin tether,  I probably would have passed.

Those Russian decapods folks have on order use the same tether. There's sure to be more threads with issues

O.k. now a little lemonade.

On the bright side. These appear to have a better quality gearbox with a ball bearing worm and a larger horizontally mounted motor than one would expect. Maybe this is originally an Mth design?

Once the tether is secure. This 0-6-0 will run slower than just about anything else in O guage, so it certainly makes a good switcher.

IF and only IF this all falls on deaf ears at the ol’ L, ….and there’s more repeat offenders…..let’s see some pics of these offenders and design a fix …

@RickO out of curiosity, what curves are on your road?….and are you experiencing issues same as Arnold now?….is this tether system just pure junk?…

Pat

I purchased an Atlas 0-6-0 after a few years ago. I had read about the tether arrangement being a pain. I think it’s 16 pins. You plug the engine into the tender and they plug straight up into it. One on each side of the drawbar. So any strain is really on the wires not the plug. The fact that there are 2 tethers is what makes it a pain. Once they are attached I just leave them coupled even when moved off the layout.

Atlas may have been on to something with the 2 tethers. I don’t care how flexible the wires are. When you bundle 20 of them together there is bound to be some strain.

Truth be told. All my steam switchers. Never leave the yard. Which is mostly straight with numbered turnouts. But if you are going to make a nice small, scale engine loaded with feature and advertise it to work on smaller layouts. It should work without this issue. Automotive connectors just simply plug on. Everyone I have ever encountered requires some trick to get them released. They should have looked into that arrangement on a smaller scale.

I have some O-36 turnouts by the ice platform that won't be there on the next layout. .

After the second or 3rd time replugging the tether. I've had no operating issues on these tight turnouts.

I can't stress enough about the drawbar-deckplate arrangement. On the closer coupling slot. The deck plate can rest on the tender but turns need to be O48 or greater.

Less than O48 . You need to use the farther coupling slot/ end slot on the drawbar. However in this position it's better to let the deck plate hang below the tender floor. At this distance it only overlaps at the very edge and risks dropping and jamming against the tender.

If you look at the tender from the side there is a slot just below the tender floor where the deck plate has room to pivot back and forth.

Folks with 048 and greater curves can run the closer coupling with the deck plate on top of the tender , and should have much less risk for tether issues.

I'll see if I can add some photos later if I get a chance.

@Dave_C posted:

I purchased an Atlas 0-6-0 after a few years ago. I had read about the tether arrangement being a pain. I think it’s 16 pins. You plug the engine into the tender and they plug straight up into it. One on each side of the drawbar. So any strain is really on the wires not the plug. The fact that there are 2 tethers is what makes it a pain. Once they are attached I just leave them coupled even when moved off the layout.

Atlas may have been on to something with the 2 tethers. I don’t care how flexible the wires are. When you bundle 20 of them together there is bound to be some strain.

Truth be told. All my steam switchers. Never leave the yard. Which is mostly straight with numbered turnouts. But if you are going to make a nice small, scale engine loaded with feature and advertise it to work on smaller layouts. It should work without this issue. Automotive connectors just simply plug on. Everyone I have ever encountered requires some trick to get them released. They should have looked into that arrangement on a smaller scale.

Some sort of locking connector would be good, ….just not the VAG style, ( VW, Audi, Germany ) …..those have to be the fiercest connectors ever,….😉….

Pat

I believe that Lionel acquired the tooling for this engine from MTH. My MTH version with PS2 works fine, although I don't run it on anything less than O-54. The deficiency with the MTH version is that there are two pickup-rollers under the tender but none under the engine. Could an MTH drawbar be adapted for the mechanical connection? Might that improve things?

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

I believe that Lionel acquired the tooling for this engine from MTH. My MTH version with PS2 works fine, although I don't run it on anything less than O-54. The deficiency with the MTH version is that there are two pickup-rollers under the tender but none under the engine. Could an MTH drawbar be adapted for the mechanical connection? Might that improve things?

MELGAR

The PS2 drawbar only has 10 conductors. I believe Lionel’s has more than that. My PS2 version has had zero issues as well.

Pete

@RickO posted:

I have one of these. Part of the problem with the tether is the fact that the female receptacle isn't deep enough.

I put my thumbs on the front side of the cab and use the nails on my middle fingers on either side of the back edge of the plug and give it a firm squeeze.

Rick, you are the greatest!

It's early in the game, so I don't know if your above solution is a long term fix, but so far, so good.

Soon I shall post photos and videos of this wonderful locomotive with such a delicate and fragile tether arrangement which includes numerous very fine wires, tether plug with numerous pins and locomotive receptacle with numerous tiny sockets for the tether plug pins to be inserted in.

This tether arrangement is so delicate, I'm going to give this very cute little steam switcher a female name, to wit: Sally. I'm naming the locomotive after our now deceased family pet, Sally, who was  a very cute German Shepherd Beagle mix, who was a real B . . .!.

LOL, Arnold

Below are photos of Sally's tether arrangement. It's hard to see it well and if it continues to run well, I will never disconnect it.

Here is a video of Sally, notice the swinging bell:

My plan is to make Sally a yard goat, permanently ensconced in my yard with 4 sidings and a passing siding, rarely riding my main line rails.

She will get plenty of yard goat action, shuttling train cars between sidings and on to the passing siding and occasionally onto a main line.

Arnold

@Norton posted:

The PS2 drawbar only has 10 conductors. I believe Lionel’s has more than that. My PS2 version has had zero issues as well.

Pete

I was wondering whether having Lionel's multiple wires remain and be loosely fastened to the MTH drawbar.

MELGAR

Oops, here is a better video of Sally in action:

Arnold

And one more short video of Sally navigating 031 curves:

This locomotive has problems but IMO it's worth fighting for. Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Rick, you are the greatest!

It's early in the game, so I don't know if your above solution is a long term fix, but so far, so good.

LOL, Arnold

Greatest might be a bit of a stretch, LOL! I just try to help with whatever information I can ,just like alot of folks on the forum.

I've certainly gotten plenty of help from others here along the way. Glad I could help, and hope it continues to run well for you Arnold.

The only way mine will get disconnected, is if an asteroid hits the layout

One more thing. It might be better to have the deck plate ride in that narrow opening between the tender floor and the bottom of the tender shell. Seen just above the deck plate in your photo, but if your content and it ain't broke don't fix it.

If the problem is the deck-plate, it seems to me that it just could be shortened or slightly rounded at the corners to improve operation on smaller radii.

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

I was wondering whether having Lionel's multiple wires remain and be loosely fastened to the MTH drawbar.

MELGAR

I wonder if the above could be a long term solution to the problem. I, for one, would never attempt it, but believe repair experts could do it.

@MELGAR posted:

If the problem is the deck-plate, it seems to me that it just could be shortened or slightly rounded at the corners to improve operation on smaller radii.

MELGAR

Under warranty, Lionel extended the tether, which helped,but I still had the problem this morning.

@MELGAR posted:

I believe that Lionel acquired the tooling for this engine from MTH. My MTH version with PS2 works fine, although I don't run it on anything less than O-54. The deficiency with the MTH version is that there are two pickup-rollers under the tender but none under the engine. Could an MTH drawbar be adapted for the mechanical connection? Might that improve things?

MELGAR

Gorgeous locomotive and layout!

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Under warranty, Lionel extended the tether, which helped,but I still had the problem this morning.

It's this simple, plug in the tether completely. I don't know if you are worried of breaking it, lack of finger dexterity, whatever, but clearly this is simple problem of not plugging in the tether fully, and then your attempt to run it and it comes unplugged.

I own one of this series 2231530 Bethlehem Steel, and the local hobby shop also has one on the shelf. So yes, with first hand knowledge, this is a difficult engine to get right, it's a wide plug tether and not the best idea out of big "L", not the best locking or latching connector system, and yes, it takes some force to FULLY seat the tether into the back of the engine. If you fail to do that step- then you are going to have a problem with it unplugging.

So again, use some force, view the tether with a magnifier if you need to to see how far it has seated into the plug and when it finally stops moving in, but it must be all the way and that takes some force.

@Vernon Barry posted:

It's this simple, plug in the tether completely. I don't know if you are worried of breaking it, lack of finger dexterity, whatever, but clearly this is simple problem of not plugging in the tether fully, and then your attempt to run it and it comes unplugged.

I own one of this series 2231530 Bethlehem Steel, and the local hobby shop also has one on the shelf. So yes, with first hand knowledge, this is a difficult engine to get right, it's a wide plug tether and not the best idea out of big "L", not the best locking or latching connector system, and yes, it takes some force to FULLY seat the tether into the back of the engine. If you fail to do that step- then you are going to have a problem with it unplugging.

So again, use some force, view the tether with a magnifier if you need to to see how far it has seated into the plug and when it finally stops moving in, but it must be all the way and that takes some force.

Thanks so much, Vernon, your advice is extremely helpful.

I may have been too gentle with the tether arrangement because the approx. 20 very fine wires comprising the tether seemed delicate. Also, there is a thin flap of plastic attached to the back of the locomotive extending to the tender just short of touching it, that is as delicate as a butterfly wing. This plastic flap is only cosmetic, hiding the tether arrangement, and reducing the access of one's fingers to insert the tether plug into the receptacle.

As I may have mentioned before, once this tether plug is fully seated, and that may have now happened, my plan is to never inplug it and keep it on the layout at all times, either on a main line or siding. Arnold

Thank you all, my fine Forum friends, for all your helpful input regarding this issue. Arnold

I’m glad y’all got this straightened out ……..good call on Rick’s part, ……sounds like Arnold’s purchasing agent on his railroad lives to see another day on the job!…glad it’s not going to be a chronic issue …..

Pat

This is a follow up regarding the problem mentioned in my original Post and Rick's solution, which was to squeeze or press the tether plug fully into the back of the locomotive receptacle ("Rick's Squeeze").

I think this issue is of particular interest to those of you who have a background in engineering, especially mechanical engineering.

This tether arrangement is flawed. This morning the locomotive stalled running through the curved section of the 2nd 022 switch, after navigating the curved section of the 1st 022 switch without stalling.

Maybe the answer is Buyer Beware if you have 031 curves, even though Lionel says on the locomotive box that it runs through 031 curves. It's possible that there is no problem running through wider curves.

When the locomotive stalled, I gave the tether arrangement the Rick squeeze, and it ran well through 031 curves again.

I will continue running it and report back, but the tether arrangement fails to lock in place like it should.

I'm no engineer, but I think this is a design flaw.

As a result, I will only use this locomotive as a Yard Goat, only running it on the sections of my layout with the easiest access.

That ain't bad, but it also ain't great.

If this problem persists, I may put it in the hands of repair expert to come up with a good long term solution to this problem so I no longer need to give it the Rick Squeeze.

Arnold

Theres an off center alignment peg on top of the male plug. Tough to see, but to my eyes this peg prevents the plug from fully going into the socket, i.e. bottoming out on the locomotive.

There is a slot on the side of the female end where you can see a gap between the face of the male plug and the back of the socket. Again, I "suspect", the plug would be difficult to remove if fully seated all the way into the socket. There is nothing to grab onto to remove the plug, and of course pulling on the wires is a no,no.

Removing the peg may allow the plug to fit in flush and provide more reliable operation

How many wires are actually in the the tether? If ten or less it could likely be replaced with an MTH tether. Not a simple task but something a warranty voider might tackle.

Pete

@Norton posted:

How many wires are actually in the the tether? If ten or less it could likely be replaced with an MTH tether. Not a simple task but something a warranty voider might tackle.

Pete

Its a 20 wire tether Pete. Your far more knowledgeable than me, but I guess this is what happens when none of the Lionel command stuff will fit in the boiler , including the antenna. Then you add a swinging bell, and power pickup.

I'm surprised we haven't seen more issues with these, maybe in a year or two. If Lionel ever lists the tether on the parts site I'll be the first one to order. I suppose they could sell out for warranty before that ever happens.

Although not attractive looking with the large loop. The way MTH did it there was certainly a lot more wire showing allowing it to flex at the top  of the loop. Not so much at the socket.
This being a MTH based engine that had a deck plate with the newer wired drawbar. By keeping the deck plate to hide the tether and loading the engine with features. They really didn’t have much choice in how to run a tether. I’m wondering if you could enlarge the opening a bit for the socket and maybe hog out the mounting holes of the PCB Socket allowing it to move freely and follow the tether taking some of the strain off of it.

And here I thought it was all peaches & cream in Arnold’s little world,…..let’s see a better picture of the tether not plugged into the engine if we can …….

Pat

@Arnold D. Cribari this may not be an appealing solution but I bought a used Legacy b6 and that pesky tether would go out every third turn. I ended up buying some of the Loctite Ultra Gel control glue. I plugged my tether in and then very carefully added a dab of glue to fireman and engineer's side of the tether. I mean tiny dab. You can't even see it without a flashlight. That tether hasn't come apart since then and I've moved it off the track multiple times. It's a pain because you're stuck with an attached tender but it makes things able to run and it could be taken apart if you scraped the glue dab off with a flathead screwdriver or razor blade.

I haven't had to do this on my 0-6-0 yet but I also don't have any tight turns to run it on yet. It's destined to work a short stretch of track that will have tight turns though so maybe trouble is in my future.

@harmonyards posted:

And here I thought it was all peaches & cream in Arnold’s little world,…..let’s see a better picture of the tether not plugged into the engine if we can …….

Pat

Great idea Harmonyyards, but as long as Sally the Yard Goat (the name of my Legacy NY Central System 0-6-0) keeps running through my 031 curves, like it's done during the last few minutes, no way am I disconnecting the tether plug from the receptacle to take photos of same.

Last time it stalled, I gave it the Rick Squeeze, and it ran well through the 031 curves again.

As long as Sally the Yard Goat continues to be responsive to the Rick Squeeze, I ain't unplugging the tether arrangement. LOL, Arnold

@BillYo414 posted:

@Arnold D. Cribari this may not be an appealing solution but I bought a used Legacy b6 and that pesky tether would go out every third turn. I ended up buying some of the Loctite Ultra Gel control glue. I plugged my tether in and then very carefully added a dab of glue to fireman and engineer's side of the tether. I mean tiny dab. You can't even see it without a flashlight. That tether hasn't come apart since then and I've moved it off the track multiple times. It's a pain because you're stuck with an attached tender but it makes things able to run and it could be taken apart if you scraped the glue dab off with a flathead screwdriver or razor blade.

I haven't had to do this on my 0-6-0 yet but I also don't have any tight turns to run it on yet. It's destined to work a short stretch of track that will have tight turns though so maybe trouble is in my future.

Very interesting, Bill, but at this point I'm going with Yard Goat duty exclusively for a Sally with an occasional Rick Squeeze. Arnold

I have to agree with Rick about the deck plate. Arnold, from the looks of things you have the deck plate under the front lip of where the tender shell meets the chassis. I’m no expert but isn’t it supposed to be on top of that lip so “one could walk across from the cab to the tender”? If Lionel extended the tether you should have enough slack to not put so much tension on that 20 pin connector. However, it still is a tricky connection to make. Hope this helps.

Ezmike, you make an interesting observation about the delicate deck plate.

I don't think that deck plate is the cause of my problem, but the deck plate is arguably another slight design flaw. The flaw is that the deck plate might be better if it was slightly longer.

Take a look at this short video:

Underneath the tether, I have the drawbar in the slot farthest from the tender, where it should be so the locomotive and tender navigate my 031 curves. In that slot, the delicate deck plate does not quite reach the narrow platform in the front of the tender so the deck plate droops, but I don't believe the deck plate, which is attached to the locomotive, puts any pressure on the tether plug or locomotive receptacle.

I think the deck plate is entirely cosmetic. I could remove it, but don't because I like the fact that it hides the tether arrangement. Arnold

Geeeezzzz,……that is a dumb tether arrangement, …..I can see it in your video Arnold, …..I can see why it’s  flaky as puff pastry, …..not only is it ginormous wide, adding a strain, it also has to make a near 45 degree climb to get to the engine,…..so strain in two plains, …..nice!,……🤮

Pat

I want to be perfectly clear about my Sally the Yard Goat.

This is no put down of Lionel.

I love my Sally the Yard Goat, despite her flaws, and I'm glad she's mine, and grateful to Lionel for making her.

I felt the opposite yesterday, but thanks to the advice I got on this thread, particularly from Rick, I have had a complete change of heart.

Another thing: I like the fact that out of necessity, I plan on having Sally serve exclusively as a Yard Goat on my layout. I'm OK with that and, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea.

Maybe I'm a hopeless optimistic, better yet, a cock-eyed optimist (that expression is from the great musical, South Pacific, by Rogers & Hammerstein.

However, I can appreciate and empathize with others who would be upset with having a locomotive that's supposed to run well through 031 curves, but occasionally stalls when doing so.

Would I prefer Sally to be flawless like my other modern switchers? Absolutely!

Arnold

I wonder if Lionel tested it on Fastrack and your tubular track is a bit tight at points, causing the stalling?  Tubular track is much more subject to slight distortions of this sort, I'd think.  You could test this hypothesis by measuring the rail to rail outer rail distance of different sections of your track and seeing if there is variation in the width, and if the stalling occurs at these points.

@Landsteiner posted:

I wonder if Lionel tested it on Fastrack and your tubular track is a bit tight at points, causing the stalling?  Tubular track is much more subject to slight distortions of this sort, I'd think.  You could test this hypothesis by measuring the rail to rail outer rail distance of different sections of your track and seeing if there is variation in the width, and if the stalling occurs at these points.

Interesting, Landsteiner, I doubt if Lionel tested it on O31 Postwar tubular track curves like mine.

I have many modern Lionel and MTH locomotives that were advertised as good for 031 curves, and they have all run well on 031 curves  except for an MTH Susquehanna PS 2 or 3 diesel that is 18 inches long.  However, the problem with that diesel was derailments, not stalling, on the 031 curves.

So, I have never had this stalling problem before. Arnold

Arnold

I believe this connector or one very much like it is what is used here. They were designed for harness to board connections. They were not meant for connections that are subject to flex. There are no locking tabs, rather its just a friction fit. The width of the connector allows more leverage on each end to pull it out.

Pete

I would add that in my experience with Lionel, they have generally been good at having their products compatible with each other, so that their older O Gauge products operate well with their newer ones, and vice-a-versa.

Arnold,

          Sounds to me like you should sue Lionel for a divorce  and take Sally to counseling or therapy.

Gunny

@Norton posted:

I believe this connector or one very much like it is what is used here. They were designed for harness to board connections. They were not meant for connections that are subject to flex. There are no locking tabs, rather its just a friction fit. The width of the connector allows more leverage on each end to pull it out.

Pete

Pete, I believe your above photo shows the same locomotive receptacle as, or one very similar to, the one on the back of my steamer. That receptacle is where the tether plug from the tender is inserted.

Also, what you say in your above reply sounds correct to me. Arnold

I have a train guy friend with a layout that has wider than 031 curves, who might be interested in purchasing his own Legacy steamer like mine.

Does anyone know if the problem described in my OP does not exist running this engine through wider curves?

If so, how wide do the curves need to be in order for this problem to go away?

Here is a further follow up on this topic.

Sally the Yard Goat has now had 5 or 6 short operating sessions with a total of about 1 hour of running time, and she is doing just fine, and has not stalled at all on my 031 curves.

It looks like the last time I administered Rick's Squeeze, it fully seated the tether plug into the receptacle, hopefully, on a permanent basis. That, coupled with returning Sally to Lionel under warranty, who slightly lengthening her tether so it would better navigate 031 curves as advertized, did the trick.

In view of this apparently successful fix, I may be so bold as to let Sally venture out of the freight yard and onto the main lines of my layout.

If I do, that would be momentous.

Stay tuned to tomorrow's Switcher Saturday. There, you may see Sally the Yard Goat rolling down the main line.

LOL, Arnold

Don’t know if this is a practical or possible additional reinforcement to keep tether connected, but would a small, black cable tie, on each end, be feasible? It already looks busy enough down there that I don’t think it would be a big cosmetic issue.

Very possibly, Mark, but Sally the Yard Dog has been running just fine lately, so I'm leaving well enough alone.

I plan to run it tomorrow and post a video or two of it on Switcher Saturday.

Arnold

Here's an update that I share in the event any of you folks may have had similar experiences with this new Legacy steam switcher.

First, I reiterate that, notwithstanding the issues I have had with this steamer, I'm glad I purchased it. I think tethers and drawbars for recently manufactured steamers with all the amazing new features have been challenging for the leading model makers.

Today, I took this steam switcher, which I have named Sally the Yard Goat, out for her maiden run on one of my main line loops. Good news she made it through the entire loop without stalling or taking off like a jack rabbit. The tether plug remained fully seated in the receptacle through all my 031 curves.

Next, I hooked 3 Postwar gondolas with loads to Sally's tender, and started her up. She was doing fine as shown in the video below as she made it through the first few curves. However, watch what happens towards the end of this short video:

Drats! Once again, Sally turns into a jack rabbit! LOL.

Of course, I rushed over to the transformer and shut off the power.

All is not lost, however. I applied the Rick Squeeze, pressing the tether plug very firmly into the receptacle and Sally, again, ran fine, resuming her freight yard duties.

I have more to say about what I did with Sally earlier today, which I will post in a little while. Arnold

Today, I also made a Rube Goldberg modification to the deck plate between locomotive and tender. See photo below:

I simply Scotch taped onto the deck plate a small piece of cardboard to extend it to the narrow platform at the front of the tender so the deck plate doesn't droop below that narrow platform.

IMO, this adjustment does not affect the operation of the locomotive.

I might paint the cardboard and Scotch tape black to make it match the black deck plate.

A better modification, recommended by a Forum friend, would be to glue a small piece of styrene onto the deck plate to extend it, but I opted for the Rube Goldberg modification.

LOL, Arnold

I think I'm going to steal your deck plate modification there @Arnold D. Cribari. That's a good solution!

I concur with your statement about being glad you bought the locomotive. I only have a U-shape section of track at the moment and I run the pants off this thing. I love it!

For the deck plate extension, you might consider a piece of black rubber cut to fit. The advantage is that this would be flexible, and give before whatever it's attached to breaks. I plan to use rubber pieces with some of my steamers that don't have deck plates. 

I just had a look at my MTH 0-6-0 switcher, made from the tooling that Lionel is now using. In the straight ahead position, the deckplate overhangs the tender by only about 1/32 of an inch. Seems to me that any extension can be quite small. And, I don't think the deckplate is what's causing operational problems.

MELGAR

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Today, I took this steam switcher, which I have named Sally the Yard Goat, out for her maiden run on one of my main line loops. Good news she made it through the entire loop without stalling or taking off like a jack rabbit. The tether plug remained fully seated in the receptacle through all my 031 curves.

Next, I hooked 3 Postwar gondolas with loads to Sally's tender, and started her up. She was doing fine as shown in the video below as she made it through the first few curves. However, watch what happens towards the end of this short video:

Drats! Once again, Sally turns into a jack rabbit! LOL.

Of course, I rushed over to the transformer and shut off the power.

All is not lost, however. I applied the Rick Squeeze, pressing the tether plug very firmly into the receptacle and Sally, again, ran fine, resuming her freight yard duties.

I have more to say about what I did with Sally earlier today, which I will post in a little while. Arnold

Hard to believe this issue. Seems Lionel needs to get an entirely new batch of beta testers.

I guess Lionel should have grabbed the tooling for the MTH tender as well, so that it would all line up the way it should.

@BillYo414 posted:

I think I'm going to steal your deck plate modification there @Arnold D. Cribari. That's a good solution!

If your able to run it on o-48 or larger. You should be able to use the closer drawbar slot in which case the deck plate will reach the tender and sit properly.

@BobbyD posted:

Hard to believe this issue. Seems Lionel needs to get an entirely new batch of beta testers.

Lionel needs "train people" designing these things. Not just toy makers.

I'm a huge fan of Legacy, and late tmcc for that matter. We can debate control systems. However, there is no question Mike Wolf made/makes better quality trains. There has been no consistency with Lionel since the mid 2000's. While I'm excited to get the opportunity to have Legacy equipped Mth tooled locomotives. This 0-6-0 makes one have reservations about future offerings.

My TPC unit does a fine job of giving Mth locomotives a "command like" operation even though running conventionally. This is another avenue I've begun to pursue to alleviate some of the frustration with new products.

Having said that, as long as folks line up for 3k bigboys. How a $600 0-6-0 turns out probably doesn't matter.

@RickO posted:

If your able to run it on o-48 or larger. You should be able to use the closer drawbar slot in which case the deck plate will reach the tender and sit properly.

I can/do at the moment but it will eventually pull duty in the steel mill on my layout so tight curves are in my future. I'm not overly concerned though. This locomotive has been killer on switching duty so far with the bit of track that I have.

@RickO posted:

Lionel needs "train people" designing these things. Not just toy makers.

I'm a huge fan of Legacy, and late tmcc for that matter. We can debate control systems. However, there is no question Mike Wolf made/makes better quality trains. There has been no consistency with Lionel since the mid 2000's. While I'm excited to get the opportunity to have Legacy equipped Mth tooled locomotives. This 0-6-0 makes one have reservations about future offerings.

My TPC unit does a fine job of giving Mth locomotives a "command like" operation even though running conventionally. This is another avenue I've begun to pursue to alleviate some of the frustration with new products.

Having said that, as long as folks line up for 3k bigboys. How a $600 0-6-0 turns out probably doesn't matter.

Rick's Squeeze is going to make you famous, RickO!

I have a local model train friend, Ed, who simultaneously bought this same Legacy model when I bought mine, from the same vendor: Tom's Trains of Ardsley, NY

Ed claims that he heard a click when he applied the Rick Squeeze firmly connecting the tether plug into the locomotive receptacle.

I never heard that click when I applied the Rick Squeeze to my model. It may be that my model is missing a tiny piece of plastic that might have helped fully seat my tether plug into my receptacle.

Our Forum professional engineers (not me - I almost flunked Calculus as a Columbia College Freshman) might chime in here on this issue. IMO, this very fragile tether, which is a bundle of 20 very fine wires, tether plug with 20 tiny pins and a receptacle with 20 tiny holes, is WAY TOO FRAGILE!

So too is the decorative deck plate between the back of the locomotive and the front of the tender.

Moreover, that decorative deck plate is ever so slightly too short.

IMO, the above flaws are mechanical engineering design flaws, flaws in the manufacturing process and/or flaws in the quality control process.

However, notwithstanding that I paid $750 for this toy/model with all its flaws, masochist that I am, I STILL LOVE MY SALLY THE YARD GOAT, and thank Lionel for creating her. LOL, Arnold

Arnold, I think you will either have to share photos with your friend of the connectors or meet up with him or if the train store still has one of these to compare connectors. The locking tab may have broken off when the tether was too short and you had to return this engine.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Arnold, I think you will either have to share photos with your friend of the connectors or meet up with him or if the train store still has one of these to compare connectors. The locking tab may have broken off when the tether was too short and you had to return this engine.

Pete

That sounds plausible, thanks Norton.

Further update re Sally the Yard Goat: I unleashed her onto the main line where she traveled passed the Popsicle Stick ball parks, then back onto her siding, and all was well. She also hauled 3 hoppers with coal loads during this run.

Later on, time permitting, I will post a video showing this positive new development in the continuing saga of - Sally the Yard Goat.

LOL, Arnold

Here's the latest in the continuing Sally the Yard Goat saga.

Notice the deck plate in these before and after photos:

Before: the drawbar is in the outside slot for navigating 031 curves (where I always keep it), and the deckplate does not quite reach the narrow platform on the front of the tender so it droops below it:

After:

A small piece of cardboard is Scotch-taped to the deckplate so it reaches the narrow platform and does not droop below it:

Final After: cardboard and Scotch-tape on deckplate is painted black with acrylic paint:

Arnold

This little Legacy steam switcher (my Sally the Yard Goat) has become a magnificent obsession with me. Here is a further update.

Extending the deckplate looked good, but it would occasionally bind when running the locomotive through 022 switches causing a derailment. Therefore, I removed the deckplate extension that was taped on, and now there is no longer any binding or derailments.

Also, as recommended above, since I have 031 curves, I have the locomotive drawbar inserted in the outside tender arm slot, and let the deckplate droop beneath the narrow platform on the front of the tender. So far, by doing this, there has been no binding and no derailments running through 022 switches and 031 curves.

Sally the Goat will continue to primarily be relegated to yard duty, and before she ventures onto a main line, I will give her the Rick Squeeze mentioned above to minimize the chances of stalling through 031 curves. Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

This little Legacy steam switcher (my Sally the Yard Goat) has become a magnificent obsession with me.

I don't blame you. I run mine every time I'm down at the layout. I love the chuffs! It's such a great little engine.

Since the deckplate is purely cosmetic, today I very carefully removed it from the locomotive using needle nose plyers to eliminate the possibility that the deckplate might cause a problem  with the tether, tether plug or operation of the locomotive.

I can always re-attach the deckplate to the back of the locomotive if I want to do so in the future.

I don't recommend this locomotive for those, like me, who have Lionel 022 switches. On some of my 022 switches, the wheels on one side of the tender trucks lift up a little bit as it runs through the curved portion of the 022 switches. So far, there has been no derailment as a result of this lifting up, but IMO it's still worrisome and a steam switcher like this shouldn't have that problem.  Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Since the deckplate is purely cosmetic, today I very carefully removed it from the locomotive using needle nose plyers to eliminate the possibility that the deckplate might cause a problem  with the tether, tether plug or operation of the locomotive.

I can always re-attach the deckplate to the back of the locomotive if I want to do so in the future.

I don't recommend this locomotive for those, like me, who have Lionel 022 switches. On some of my 022 switches, the wheels on one side of the tender trucks lift up a little bit as it runs through the curved portion of the 022 switches. So far, there has been no derailment as a result of this lifting up, but IMO it's still worrisome and a steam switcher like this shouldn't have that problem.  Arnold

Sounds like someone needs some O-72 curves/switches

Arnold,

I've been watching your saga with Lionel's (nee MTH's) 0-6-0 steamer and your Sally, in particular. I'm sorry to see your continuing travails with this engine because I happen to have the MTH version and it is one of my favorites. So, for what it's worth, I am suggesting a fix that might more firmly retain the tether plug into the engine - but no guarantee this will work.

Take some clear plastic tape (which is very thin) and wrap one layer around the four external surfaces of the plug. I imagine you could do this with one continuous piece or perhaps four pieces - one on each surface. If the tape doesn't come off when you insert the plug into the engine, this may make the plug fit more snugly into the engine and prevent it from loosening. If you can't insert the plug with tape on all four sides, try applying the tape on just the upper or lower surface of the plug.

As far as the wheels lifting off the rails of an O-31 turnout, the tether has too many wires and is just too stiff.

MELGAR