Protosound 1 problem

You may need to have the software reprogrammed, but the first thing I would try is not pushing the chip in the holder so far.  Leave it flush with the holder and see if that fixes your issue.  On start up you should hear 2 dings, then idle sounds.  Sometimes you need to change direction to get the sounds started, or raise the voltage high then lower to less then 10Vs.  This will cause a reset change.  Then hit the direction button and see if it works.  G

GGG, Thank you so much, I did that and it works perfectly now!!! I had to cycle power a couple times, and then I had it almost full power hit direction and darn near flew off the table. Cant thank you enough!!!!

Glad it worked.  Now keep that battery charged:-)  G

I'm hoping someone can help. Here's what happened:

I bought a used but basically never ran SD-9. Engine sounds started up when I put it on the track, but I got no movement. Tried several times, and nothing. Then I got 3 clanks of death. Took the shell off, and found the ground wire to the battery pig tale had come off. Battery was also shot. Got the wire fixed, and put in a new battery. Used the reset chip from the kit and did a reset 18 - still getting 3 clanks of death followed by engine sounds, but no movement. I tried this a couple times. 

At that point I found this thread. Read through it, and tried a good working chip out of a Rail King Hudson. Put that chip in, did a Reset 3, Reset 17, and a Reset 18 as GGG had prescribed. I had movement! Put the original chip back in, but got the 3 clanks of death again and no movement. I tried this twice. 

Also I noticed that when I pulled the chip out of the SD-9, it was a chip for an SD-45. So now I'm wondering if this was even the right chip to begin with for this locomotive.

Any thoughts/suggestions? What are my options? 

I just purchased a Premier Bigboy with proto. Will it run along side my proto two engines. Thanks.

3railman,

Your Bigboy is essentially a conventional powered engine, if indeed it is Protosound 1.  You must be able to vary your track voltage for you to run it.  If this is how you have set up your track, once you get the Bigboy running, you can use the DCS to control the other engines.

To do this you need to set up a variable track through your DCS system.  You would then be able to vary track voltage with your remote.   

Since the chip worked when you first tried it (sounds), it is probably original.  SD sound file may be the same.  The bad battery and damaged terminal wire caused the software conflict.

How did you repair the battery wire?  Are you using a new battery?  When you use the reset chip, are you hearing the appropriate sound?

Seems like you still have an software conflict.  Can you post a picture of the top of the PS-1 board?  G

We sliced open the pigtale cover and resoldered the wire tp the terminal. Figured we'd try that to begin with, maybe replace the pigtail later. The battery is an MTH replacement rechargable Ni-Cad. It is not "brand new" but one I had recently put in the Hudson and was fully charged. Plan on ordering another battery or getting a BCR.

When I used the reset kit and did the factory reset I did get the appropriate sounds. But as soon as I put the SD9 (SD45) chip back in, I got the 3 clanks of deathfollowed by the regular 2 bells and engine sounds one would get on startup, also lights, but no movement.

I can try and get a photo of the top board tonight when I get home. I did briefly run the locomotive last night and it ran very smoothly, it just sounded like an SW-8 since that was a bit more realistic than the chuffing of the Hudson.

Each board can have different tolerances.  The older NICad may still be bad.  Use a new 9V alkaline.  Does it provide a shutdown of 4-8 secs?  Sometimes the battery wire gets corroded from gasing out of very old batteries.

I would go back and try the reset chip again with a new battery.  G

Ok,  This sheds some light.  What is the MTH Number for this engine?  Can you see a year marking on the chip, not the sticker.  96 or 94.  The 3 clanks means a software conflict.  I have had this issue before, and some times that chip needs to run on an older top board.  I do think there were some software changes and sometimes a chip won't work with a newer board or vice versa.

There also are 2Meg versus 4Meg chips also.

It is possible the chip may be bad, or at some point the chip or the board was exchanged.  A picture of the board would help, and there may be a date code on it (bottom side of top board).

MTH can make a new chip.  They are $30 plus shipping.  I have some diesel SD like chips with Freight Sounds that may work.   I think the prime mover sounds are similiar on many of these diesels, it is the horn and possibly the PSA effects that may be different.

Joe, have you tried the SD chip in one of your engines to see if it does the same thing?  G

G - Here is a shot of the board from my SD-9, the item number is 20-2110-1 from the Spring '96 catalog. I didn't see a date on the board, but I'll take another look at it. The chip in this picture is for an SW-8 engine, which is what I had put it in it and had it running. 

If in fact I just need a new/different chip to replace the defective SD9/45 chip, I'd just like to get something in the way of a similar EMD prime mover. SD9's were 1750 hp, and so were GP9's, but honestly, the SW8 soundchip didn't sound half bad. 

Ok,  This is the early board set up, I can tell by the color of the wires, and the Yellow components below the QSI labeled processor.  It is a 4meg, because the jumper under the blue wire is in the 4Meg position.

The one SD-45 chip I had said "MTH SD-45" on the label, but came out of a Weaver engine with MTH components.

The board vintage you have I have found to be finicky with chips.  So if you want to send me your SD-45 chip and I can send you a MTH SD-60 version and you can see if it works.  I can test your SD-45 against a variety of top boards I have.

E-mails in profile.  I do think your board is probably ok since it has run fine with a SW-9 and Hudson chip.  Maybe some one did do a swap of chips, and you have a non compatible chip in the board.  G

Joe, have you tried the SD chip in one of your engines to see if it does the same thing?  G

It's an FM chip with the same symptoms as Scott's. I tried it in 2 other engines with the same results. Either the chip is done or my reset chip is no good. But it gets 2 bells when powered up with the reset chip.

Clanks of death,, CLANKS OF DEATH,,,

  I just received an engine I too got on eBay and it too does nothing that I understand, and refuses to run. I heard the whistle a few times and I know the motor works because it jerked along a few inches, but other than that - nothing. Trying to figure it out. However I haven't had such a hearty laugh in decades. Perhaps the engine I have, a hudson model 30-1025 has clanked it's last clank as well, and we both lost our money buying these engines. I know mine has puked it last ray as a headlight bulb as well.

  Thank you so much for the great laugh

Did you change the battery?  What transformer are you using?  I doubt it clanked it's last clank.  You just need to know how to kiss the princesses to wake her.

The bulb may just need to be twisted in tighter also.  G

Wow, thanks for paying attention while I read this whole discussion. I have a Lionel 1044 transformer which the instruction manual says will work just fine. I wired in a volt/ammeter setup so I can watch voltages. At this point I am still mystified wondering what I have gotten myself into. I once quit working for a computer company in the late sixties because I couldn't understand nor see a future for computers. I did tighten the bulb, but it presents that black silvery color no one wants to see. Possibly the engine was over voltaged before I ever got it. the 1044 peaks at about seventeen.

If the engine as instructions worth reading first few pages.  Install new battery, raise voltage to about 9-10V and let the engine start up.  Press direction button and it should move out.  At that point you can adjust voltage higher or lower.

If it doesn't move or doesn't start up, it may need a reset.  Any 16-18V bulb should work in that engine.  I assume it is the small screw bulb.  G

Hi there,

  I read the instructions thoroughly. I hate to be stupid but I cannot find the battery. I have taken the screw out of the bottom holding the boards in place and pulled the set of boards off the tender but I am afraid to try to separate them for fear of breaking them. I have removed the tape but still cannot see a separate battery. Applying voltage only results in clicks from the unit, and no attempt at playing with the throttle control makes any difference. The instructions said leave the engine in neutral for 18 hours applying 12 volts so I have done that overnight and should be at eighteen hours sometime today in the afternoon. I have included some photos if they are helpful. Thanks for the help.

The battery is the size of a 9v, so it should be very obvious.  Unless it's missing ...?

That is not a PS-1 board.  You have a whistle only locomotive, which the instruction manual states.  The clicking you hear is normal (See bottom of page 2).  It could be that you need to make sure that the gear box is cleaned and then regreased, and that the connecting rods are all oiled and fastened correctly so as to not catch or bind.

HI,

  I took a look at the manual you have hyper linked and it is not the same one I have. The manual you show shows installing  board, the manual I have does not. The cover engines are facing opposite directions. My personal manual says it is a built in Protosounds DCRU reverse unit, automatic steam whistle sound, authentic steam bell sound, squeaking brake sound, freight yard sounds etc.

I did see this other manual on the MTH webpage.

However I am impressed you do not think it is a PS-1 board. Why did you think that?

Reality is the locomotive will not move and it does function mechanically very well with no binding what so ever, the motor has moved slightly but now has no power to it at all. Thanks for the help in figuring this out.

That's not the standard PS/1 board set, I can tell you that.  The top board is totally different, though the bottom board looks similar.  This is what the PS/1 board looks like, and note the battery connection, you don't have a battery.

As John posted a photo, now you see how I know that yours isn't a PS-1 board.  The manual I linked is from MTH's site when I did a search for your locomotive, so MTH is saying that is the correct manual.  Why you have the manual you do, I don't know.  The manual I linked is for your locomotive, but it also shows how you install the optional PS-1 boards.  IMHO, you need to toss the manual you have as it is incorrect and rely on pages 1-6 of the manual I linked.  This is why you have a whistle, hear click, find no battery and have no other sounds.

As for the mechanicals of the locomotive running gear, try turning the fly wheel by hand while on the track and make sure the wheels do a complete 360 2 times in each direction.  If it does, then we know 100% for sure they are not the cause.  Next inspect the wires from the motor to the tether plug to make sure they are good.  If possible, use a multi meter to make sure they aren't broken in the wire casing.  Next make sure the tether is plugged into the bottom board in the tender.  With it plugged into the locomotive, use the multi meter to make sure you have continuity between the motor and the board.  If that checks out, you have a bad board.

I have several Protosound 1 engines.  I have found that if I use an original Lionel post war KW transformer I have no problems.  

Protosound 1 engines will not operate using some modern transformers. Lionel CW80 for instance.

I run 7+ PS-1 locomotives with the CW-80, no issues.  The transformer is not his issue.  And it's not a PS-1 locomotive.  Like GGG and I have laid out, it's time for some electrical trouble shooting on the wires and PCBAs.

Actually, for some of the earlier PS/1 locomotives, and even selected PS/2 locomotives, the CW-80 and other similar transformers can create problems.  I've personally experienced it, and switching to a pure sine wave transformer was the silver bullet.  Also, if you recall, over in ModelTrainForum, there was recently a guy with a PS/2 locomotive trying to run it in conventional mode with a CW-80.  He couldn't get it to move, changed the transformer and the engine came alive.

Not every engine or every person will have issues with these combinations, but it's a real stretch to say the problem doesn't happen, because it does.

Thank you everyone for your valuable input. Everything has a reason and I guess someone upstairs is determined I keep learning. I still have not found the battery but I did try to get the top layer off. The bottom board handles reverse while the top is for sound as the speaker is attached. Power gets across via the long prongs. I have set this engine on the track with constant twelve volts for 18 hours as the manual suggested. Everything is the same. I did find squeezing the boards together did make to whistle work, but I still do not know what the little computer is thinking. Perhaps it should have had a small monitor installed inside the tender. I was fooling with test leads and accidentally shorted the board on the locomotive above where the plug enters. The engine moved. Further testing to find current found current at the motor but accidental grounding made it work. I put a ground wire from the terminal of the motor to ground and found the engine moves forward and backward effortlessly. There does not seem to be a neutral setting although the engine can be controlled from the throttle. Of course there is no sound with the sound board missing. Not sure where I am going to go from here but thanks for the interest.

From the looks of the board set, I think you may be finished.  You don't have the ProtoSound1 audio, so you apparently just have the whistle.  The board you've pictured seems to confirm that, as well as the box.  Note they say ProtoSound DCRU, that's the bottom board that is the reverse unit.

Re. Lionel CW-80 transformer.  I recently purchased an MTH 20-3020-1 (4-6-4 Hudson NYC J1e) that had never been run before, and it would not run using CW-80.  It does run with the older Lionel "pure sine-wave" transformers.  Strange thing is, my MTH 30-1149-1 (6-8-6 S2 Steam Turbine) works fine with the CW-80. 

I would like to thank the contributors to this forum for mentioning possible problems with CW-80 as I had already ordered a new chip from MTH but was able to cancel that order just in time!

-NYC20