PRR Cabin Cars?

Any photos of them? Most PRR experts can tell by looking at a PRR Cabin Car what class it is.

Jack, none that I can find.  I have a book on the NPBL, but the only decent photo of a caboose is one that came from the Delaware Lackawanna & Western RR.

I have another book on my hometown that shows a NPBL train with a caboose but it's not clear enough to tell much, except it's got 2 windows on the side and looks like a PRR N4 class.  I'm going to enlarge it and see if I can get more info.

Bob,

   I have no idea what class these Cabin Cabooses were, not sure they really were built to any certain class at that time, although they were probably listed in one some place. 

PCRR/Dave 

Bob,

You might have better luck getting an answer if you post this question in the Real Trains forum. 

Bob, can you describe this cabin?  Since you stated 2-windows on a side we can rule out the N5c with four porthole windows a side.  Is it wooden or steel?  Is the cupola on center, slightly off center, or obviously off center?  If a wooden cab is the cupola roof obviously rounded?  Are these side windows actually two sets of two?  Are the ends(front and rear) of the cupola straight up vertical or at an angle?  And can we rule out a bobber like pictured above?

I have never heard of a N4 class, but that dose not mean anything.

The Pennsy cabin car classes I know of are:

NC, ND, N5, N5a, N5b, N5c, N6A, N6B, N8, and N5E.

Ron

Or post it over here: PRR-FAX List - Yahoo Groups

Bill

I've tried manipulating the photo, but not sure if it'll do any good.

I can make out that it has 4-wheel trucks, the cupola isn't rounded like on the N6B class.  Here's the photo out of one of the books, along with a photo of the PRR N4 class (N scale model):

I also have to find a good photo of the old NPBL logo, as seen on the caboose.

Bob, very interesting!  The color pic of the cab identified as a kitbash of the "LONE" N4 prototype is something I have as yet ever seen.  I do not recall seeing this in any of my Pennsy library of books. I must look into this.

Now the B&W pic looks like a N5 or (N5a, N5b) the best I can tell especially from the shape of the cupola.  Just a guess.

Ron

Did a Google search finding in fact one N4 did exist.  And it is pictured in both Volume 1 & 2 PRR Color Guide ... .  The caption in volume 2 reads in part "The N4 class had been created by rebuilding a wrecked ND cabin car with a new, longer eight-wheel underframe in 1915.  Only one N4 was built ... ."

In MOW service it was numbered 492415 but before in freight service it was 478251.

GEE I learned something today or at least re-learned it because I know I have looked at ever picture in these three volumes.

Ron

Ron,

Looking thru the NPBL, I found a larger photo of the one in the book on my hometown:

I'll look into the N5 class and report back!

Looks like the number on this caboose was 309 or 310, which would be one of the ex-PRR cabin cars!!!

Looking around, it may be a class NDa cabin.

Well in the time it took to go to my reference books, scan and Photoshop resize, you guys have figured it out!  I'd say it was indeed an NDa wood cabin car.  These were rebuilt around 1917-1919 from class ND 4-wheel bobbers.  The NDa class were the same dimensions as the ND, they just had regular trucks added.

At least one of the NDa's survived long enough to get the post-1954 lettering scheme.

The fact that this cabin has a number that is close to the ones you're asking about provides added evidence to support the NDa conclusion.

That does look like a match!  From looking at a diagram of the NDa the cupola profile appears as in your the B&W picture posted above.

Ron

You might find this site useful for PRR cabin cars, all that they had with the diagrams for them and if you have any interest in the PRR you might want to bookmark the home page off ths site so you can look up just about any PRR car.

http://prr.railfan.net/diagram...bn&sz=sm&fr=

Thanks Ron and Bob!!!  I'm going with the NDa

NPBL also got a few steamers from PRR.  I have a Railking 2-8-0 that I had altered (ground with a dremel) the Bellpaire boiler off of and now I wish I had kept it as was.  NPBL had some ex-PRR H6 and H-9 2-8-0 engines.  Maybe I can redo the boiler with metal epoxy and turn it into a NPBL engine.

I recently bought a MTH caboose from Martin Brechbiel to turn into an ACL M3 caboose, but found out it was too short.  That made me start looking and that's when I noticed the NPBL caboose.  The MTH caboose (20-91223 in ATSF paint) is just right, it's labeled as a N6B, but it doesn't have the round cupola.  I still want to get an ACL cab, guess I'll have to go from scratch.

All I have to do on this ex-PRR car is repaint and letter if I can get some decals made.

Bob,

Here are some pictures of PRR 2-window cabins (Bowser models). Did the picture you saw look like any of these?

N8 PRR Circle Keystone - Pittsburgh

N5 PRR Shadow Keystone 
 

N5 PRR New Style
 

N8 PRR Plain Keystone Red Body with Yellow Cupola 

ADDED:  For some reason the moderator had to approve this post and it took several hours before it was finally "approved".  I noticed they deleted the last picture of an N8;  maybe too large a file?  Looks like you guys figured out what cabin it might be in the meantime. 

There is a person selling replacement decals for the Quality Craft kits on eBay

oh yeah! I have an O scale NDa!

The MTH caboose (20-91223 in ATSF paint) is just right, it's labeled as a N6B, but it doesn't have the round cupola.

 

All I have to do on this ex-PRR car is repaint and letter if I can get some decals made.

Are you talking about modeling an NDa using an MTH N6b with square cupola?  Be aware that the NDA was 26 feet long platform to platform while the N6b was 30 feet 8 1/2 inches over the platforms.  It is an easy stand-in if the inch and a bit too long doesn't bother you.  The alternatives are to build a Gloor Craft or Quality Craft kit as Martin says or to get a brass NDa model.  These have been done in 2-rail.

Are you talking about modeling an NDa using an MTH N6b with square cupola?  Be aware that the NDA was 26 feet long platform to platform while the N6b was 30 feet 8 1/2 inches over the platforms.

Bob, Yep.  MTH kinda screwed the pooch on this one.  After I received the car from Martin I got hot on gathering all the data up for the ACL cab and BAM...I put a ruler to the MTH N6B and the body (end to end of cabin) it just under 25' long.  I was going to use the roof and underframe for a M3 ACL cab (30'-6"), but being it's 5 feet too short that won't do (I'll have to build the ACL car from scratch).

Martin, thanks for the info on the decals and for the bulkhead flat and caboose, even though it won't be put to original use.

Curve, is that a scratchbuilt???  If so, nice job!  If not, who made/makes it?

From the photo I posted, it looks like the steps are not the same as on the PRR NDa, but neither is the MTH model.  The model looks just like the NPBL photo.

Here's the decal I need to find/make:

Here's the MTH ATSF N6B caboose:

It's a nice cab, heavy and well made.  Interior lights and marker lamps light and has an interior and figure, even has pockets for Kadee couplers!

I got my decals from Dave at LBR Enterprises and finished the NPBL NDa caboose last night.  The herald came out great (the one pictured above was not the one I used) and a breeze to put on.  I'll be getting more of Dave's decals in the future.

The only thing I did to the original MTH ATSF Caboose was to strip the paint and repaint it.  I did remove the interior lights, leaving only the 2 lanterns on the rear, plus I installed Kadees.

Here's a photo I took this morning:

I'm no good at taking photos, but the caboose looks great in person.  I can't see any sign of the herald being a decal vice painted/stamped on the model, that's how nice the decals are.

Finding the herald used for making these decals was not an easy process.

The NPBL main office is only about 5-6 miles from my house, so I gave them a call to visit them.  What I found was I had better information than they did, all of their records had been thrown out except for just a few items.

The only photos available of the herald came out of Hugh Moomaw's book on the Norfolk & Portsmouth Belt Line and a couple from the N&W Historical Society.  I scanned a few photos and sent them around to see if someone could possibly produce artwork good enough to have decals made.

As it turned out, a fellow co-worker, at one of the golf courses where I work, is also a graphics teacher at a local high school.  He had the photo turned into a nice piece of art in 3 hours!  He said that being it was a snow day and he was home, he jumped on the chance to see if he could do something with it.

Then the hunt began to find a place that would make the decals I needed.

The same day, Dave from LBR Enterprises posted on this forum that his company was looking into making decals for O-scale, all I can say is what timing!!!  I immediately responded to his post and Dave asked me to send what I had to him.

Dave took the artwork image and a photo of a NPBL steamer and produced some proofs for me to review, within hours of sending him the email.  He had tweaked the artwork for me and sized it to my specs.  Not only did he produce the white herald, but he also made white numbers as well as dulux gold heralds and numbers for the engine.  I made the request on March 8 and received the package from Dave on March 13, pretty good service I would say.  Dave did ask that future work be sent in black and white.  The fellow that made the artwork for me had mentioned it also, but I either forgot or ignored what he said so lesson learned.

The decals were very easy to apply.  I placed the herald in a dish of water for no more than 10 seconds, removed it and set it on a paper towel, but within a few seconds I could see the decal was ready to come off the paper backing so I picked up the caboose and went to work.

The decals slid onto the caboose side without any problem at all.  Once I had them in position I blotted a bit of the water off, made sure they was still where I wanted them, then let them sit for maybe 15 minutes.  After that I applied some Solvaset to help them snuggle down onto the painted surface and let the Solvaset air dry.  Once dry, I turned the caboose over and applied the other decals.

Dave did an excellent job of tweaking the images I had sent him into exactly what I wanted and had them to be faster than I could have imagined.

I may be the only one in the world with a NPBL caboose carrying this logo, thanks to Dave and his timely post

Bob, thanks for a comprehensive post on securing the artwork Dave needed, and his excellent service and product.

My NP NCL passenger car decals are "out for delivery" today and my experience with Dave/LBR is almost exactly as you've described.  In my case, I'd been scouring the web for these white decals w/o success until Dave's original post here 10 days or so ago.  And I needed 2-3 sets to complete an NP NCL train I started and set aside 10+ years ago.

Thanks, again, for the posts--and the photo of car looks GREAT!

Carl, glad to do it!

Here's a couple more photos of the herald decal:

Thanks for the additional photos, Bob.

My NP NCL decals arrived and they look perfect. 

Thanks Carl...and that they are!

My photos don't do these decals justice, that herald is really sharp and crisp.