PRR D16 American ...built by Paul Egolf late 20's / early 30's

Not a PRR D16.  Maybe the Reading D16 listed in the ad?

Carey Williams posted:

Hello O scale world ... 

Paul Egolf can be considered the father of  electric O scale railroading.  

Very interesting; I had not heard from Paul Egolf before. Of course electric 0 scale railroading had many fathers. Marescot from France produced this scale pacific in 1922:

Regards

Fred

Hello Fred ...thank you for posting your lovely   Marescot .....I should have said "American" father of O scale ..here is Fred Egolf's patent filed in 1922 granted 1926 .

Can one tell the difference between a Marescot from the 20's and a Fournereau form the 30-40's ? 

Thank you Cheers Carey 

mwb posted:

Not a PRR D16.  Maybe the Reading D16 listed in the ad?

The Reading D16 says it has a Walschaert's valve gear but the loco in the photos has Stephenson's gear. They were rather pricey for their day,   Would love to see photos of entire line, especially the Pacific.  A question I have had about life size locos. Has anyone ever seen photos of a Pacific with D valves and Stephenson valve gear ?  j

Carey Williams posted:

Hello Fred ...thank you for posting your lovely   Marescot .....I should have said "American" father of O scale ..here is Fred Egolf's patent filed in 1922 granted 1926 .

Can one tell the difference between a Marescot from the 20's and a Fournereau form the 30-40's ? 

 

Thank you Cheers Carey 

 

Look !   He's using bevel gears rather than a worm. I wonder what gear ratio he achieved ? I robbed a pair of bevel gears from my old slot cars to make a drive for a 2-8-0,  I bashed using a steam turbine frame & wheels and a 1615 0-4-0 boiler.  It was quite noisy but could have been the fact they had been run on a slot car at 30K RPM and were rather ragged out before making it to a loco.  I used the bevel crown on a shaft with a worm that was from a Lionel #52 Fire Car or an O-27 Alco, so my gear  ratio was on the order of 25:1 which I am sure contributed to the noise. Most of Lionel's steamers with worm drive are geared around 16:1 as were Williams and Weaver. Probably others I haven't counted turns on also. The thing about bevel gears that attracts me is how easy they free wheel. You can cut power and they coast a long way. It's just hard to get the ratios you need with a crown gear smaller than the diameter of the driver because as the pinion gets smaller the noise level goes up.    j

JohnActon posted:

mwb posted:

Not a PRR D16.  Maybe the Reading D16 listed in the ad?

The Reading D16 says it has a Walschaert's valve gear but the loco in the photos has Stephenson's gear.

I noticed that discrepancy as well as the missing Belpaire boiler that even the early PRR D16 possessed.  I have no real idea what that engine really might be.....and it's the crudest Egolf engine I have yet to see as well.

Carey, you always have some historical model to offer and it is a great pleasure to discover those American builders, thanks so much.

About the difference between Marescot and Fournereau.  The first Pacific made by Marescot was offered between 1922 and 1931-2 It is Fred's model, on that one notice the loco have been repainted which is very common, direct paint on metal and as time pass the paint tends to flack. Generally all those Marescot models are varnished and where not offered in kits as we say today but only factory models, of course there is some exceptions.

Markings on the underside of a Marescot locomotive is a French flag marked R M PARIS and sometime but more rare LOCO which was the commercial trade mark used by Marescot.

Pictures are from passenger cars and the other sticker WERY is the one from the shop in Strasbourg which sold them.

When Fournerau bought the business of Marecot. 1931-32, in a first time the Pacific and cars where the same, but the purpose of Fournereau was to offer more scale models and a number of parts have been added to the Marescot one. In fact details models of a comon french model. Here are some of them which have all been made from kits, the originals factory models are more rare and very well made.

A pre-war model from around 1935, same motor than the one used by Marescot. Reversing with a lever in the cab.

A post war model which has seen a heavy service on the layout of the Gare de l'Est in Paris, it was originally used with an outside pickup and I modified it for center rail, the motor is in the tender and there is a transmission to the wheels of the engine. DC model.

A later one from 1955 with the new motor made by Fournerau and in a non prototypical grey livery, just out of manufacture the locos where prepainted in grey and after their tests they received the right coat of paint.

This one is AC center pickup and reverse in the cab.

There is many more to show about Fournereau trains and also Marescot. There is a recent book that has been published but it lacks so many things in it that except some very nice pictures, many models are missing.

Just for fun the first loco made by Favre Marescot was inspired by an American model, it was runs under high voltage.

And he also made some 1 gauge cars in the spirit of Basset Lowke.

And Fournereau also made some nice models of electric locomotives, this one is the more comon, all brass and two motors, very smooth running piece.

And a picture of the booth of Fournereau in a show around 1935-38 in Paris

And there is so many more.....

All my best wishes,  Daniel

Hello Daniel ...thank you for the education into fine French trains ....  great trade show display photo , I appreciate sharing the images .    Were O scale trains in France always  inside 3rd rail ? ...    

Thank you Cheers Carey 

mwb posted:

Not a PRR D16.  Maybe the Reading D16 listed in the ad?

Agreed. The PRR model should have the Belpaire Firebox.

Carey Williams posted:

Hello Daniel ...thank you for the education into fine French trains ....  great trade show display photo , I appreciate sharing the images .    Were O scale trains in France always  inside 3rd rail ? ...    

 

Thank you Cheers Carey 

Hi Carey, in the firsts years of scale models inside third rail was the more common way but some of the best scale modelers used outside third rail in a similar way to yours.

One of the oldest french club layout located in one of the major railway station of Paris, the Gare de l'Est, still use outside third rail. It dates from the thirties and is still in activity.

Two rail layout starts at 2'

Very best,   Daniel

Hello Daniel ...wow great .....next time at  Gare est ....I'll have to check the layout out ..fabulous...do you know the year outside 3rd was introduced in France ?...Here in America  it was 1928/29 period . 

Here is a later Egolf D16 from 1938 era ...with the Belpaire 

two engines are built roughly  10 - 12 years apart ..the later engine has the typical "Egolf" drive skinny gear ... note now two rail   Egolf was an early advocate of 2 rail .

Cheers Carey 

Carey they are really nice looking models from that period. I have never seen one in France and would be very happy to find one.

Outside third rail in France seems to date of the same time than in USA. One layout which dates from 1924, The Gutlang Railways of mr. GP Keen, who gave it to a famous modeller in the south of France is still in existence and is certainly the oldest one in existence in Europe. I have some pictures of it from 20 years ago and all the scenery have been added later by the last owner, the track plan is all original.

Rolling stock is a mixed of British, Swiss and French models, also some freelance ones. Unfortunately a great number of those models have disapeared or are in private collections.

Very best, Daniel

Hello Daniel ...thank you for the photos of the most unique vintage pieces ......I sure piece from the 20's and 30's are just as hard to find on that side of the pond as this .    Interesting that the outside 3rd rail idea spread ....I have a loop of Milbro track with outside 3rd rail .... but mostly one sees inside 3rd rail in UK ? 

Did Germany ever use outside 3rd rail ?   Marklin was always inside 3rd rail correct ? 

America began switching to 2 rail in 1939 .... ..but there were many hold outs till the 1950's ... I think Brooklyn  Model club and the old B&O layout in Cincinnati are the only major outside 3rd rail hold outs .... .. unknown if there are many / few / handful  of private outside 3rd rail layouts in America ......I'm putting one in  using vintage outside 3rd rail track  from the 40's . 

Here are  all the other Egolfs  that I know of ... the  pretty looking K4  I've only seen from a photo found on the internet .

Other folks out there have Egolf  pieces ???  Please share with the masses to further our education .

Thank you Cheers Carey 

Cheers Carey