PS/3 Diesel Upgrade

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Now that I've finished one, I think the next one will go a lot smoother, I know what to expect.

Good to know!  I could see another one coming your way in a few months !!

I'm an MTH/DCS guy first and always will be but sounds like they definitely need to take your hint here and rethink the manual they provided if they want to sell many PS3 upgrades. I mean, if you were stumped John, yeesh!

GCubed came to our place and conducted a PS3 upgrade workshop. His showing the guys how to minimize the harness to just what was needed was a big help. Everybody had a good time and got their engine upgraded. I too am sure the next one will be quicker. Pretty cool, though. 

The later kits do have revisions and 2 tach holders to get the gap right depending on which flywheel size you have.  Pictures do have to be update.   Once you get through one, it gets easier.   The pin out chart provided is the real key.  I helps show you how the board operates with common grounds vice common Positive Voltage like PS-2.   G

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, I finally got around to doing a PS/3 diesel upgrade.  With a little help from my friends, I figured it out.  The documentation is very bad and outright wrong in a bunch of places.  George (GGG) suggested I simply trace out the wires with a connector diagram and figure it out, that worked much better than trying to follow the "beta" documentation.  MTH really needs to write a proper manual for the diesel upgrade! 

 

Now that I've finished one, I think the next one will go a lot smoother, I know what to expect.

I just totally shocked that this is your first upgrade, being MacGyver and all   . Maybe the instructions should of been in Chinese,  since we are all use to deciphering them already.  

It's always a learning experience.   I've done a few of the steam PS/3 kits, but they're pretty much the same as the PS/2, the diesel is quite different than the PS/2 diesel kit.  I was working my way through the existing stock of PS/2 diesel kits, coming to the end of the road.  I did keep one PS/2 diesel kit with the slave kit for any A-B-A upgrades since they don't offer that option with the PS/3.

You sure do get a bunch of fine little wires in that PS/3 diesel kit!

GGG posted:

The later kits do have revisions and 2 tach holders to get the gap right depending on which flywheel size you have. 

 I did use what I believe to be the correct tach holder, however maybe I didn't look close enough. 

John,

Aside from the 40 pin connector and wires as thin as human hairs, did you have any problem obtaining and loading the 3v file for the diesel?  Was the flash code included with the file.

I have to download the 3v files using 'save target as...'

bruce

I had no issue downloading the PS/3 file, it's just a standard ZIP file with two files inside.  One is the ZIP file with the chain files, the other is the sound file.  Using the DCS loader 5.0, they loaded right up.

One note, I went to DC power for better performance, it was having issues loading with AC power.  I have noticed this with other PS/3 stuff when loading sound files, so it wasn't much of a surprise.

Do you just power the TIU with DC, AUX port?

I just put DC on Fixed #1, it's my workbench TIU, so I don't fool with AUX power there.  I fire up the supply, be it the transformer or the DC supply and have at it.  DC works fine on the AUX power port, I've used that in the past on the club layout.

So the engines set up for 3 rail don't mind DC as they are? I was thinking you had to change something or do something different for them to use DC from the rails? Maybe I am thinking of DCC? 

I don't have a workbench TIU, I just use one track on the layout and turn all the others off. All I have are PS3 engines so I haven't done any PS3 upgrades, but I have updated an engine or two with newer updated files.

I'm not 100% positive about 5V PS/2 boards, but the 3V PS/2 and PS/3 all run perfectly on DC.  I believe the 5V boards do as well, but truthfully I've never tried it.

Loading with DC eliminates one major issue of noise in the signal, I notice the loads go a lot faster with DC power.  PS/3 seems especially touchy about the power, more than PS/2 for me.

The workbench lashup is convenient, and since I'm working on a lot of stuff in the course of a week, doing it on the track would be less convenient.

AFAIK, all PS2 (3 volt and 5 volt) and PS3 engines will run fine under DC voltage in DCS command mode. However, PS2 5 volt engines may have issues with horn blowing when operated under DC in conventional mode.

Is 16-18 vdc ok at a couple of amps? I can do that with an AC-DC converter or I have the small MTH Z-DC1 (20 watt) power supply.

I actually do have one PS2 3 volt engine from a RK set, but it's been packed away for sometime. Everything else is PS3 though. This is all very good to know about the PS2's and PS3's and even the 5 volt ones too, just in case.

I did have trouble with one with AC, but I thought it was my cabling, which I changed and then it worked. Maybe it wasn't the cable? But, as you say, it was extremely slow. I will definitely give DC a try next time.

Thanks for the info!

MTH also says to use something like 17 feet of wire between the TIU and the track to increase your success of loading the files. I have this as well as a DC supply and it really does eliminate errors when loading files

The 17 feet is good to know too. I should be pretty close to that between the workbench PC and the layout. I had also wondered if that might have been a problem too? Good to know it's not too long.

Is 16-18 vdc ok at a couple of amps?

The voltage is fine, however, I'd go with 3 amps just to be safe.

Ok, I can come up with 3 amps somehow I think. Thanks again.

Hmmm, might be a good excuse for that bench top power supply I have been thinking about. I believe it was 3 amps.

So how big a wire is needed for two mini LEDs?

Barry Broskowitz posted:

AFAIK, all PS2 (3 volt and 5 volt) and PS3 engines will run fine under DC voltage in DCS command mode. However, PS2 5 volt engines may have issues with horn blowing when operated under DC in conventional mode.

I would expect that any of them would have an issue with DC in conventional mode, that's how you trigger the horn or bell!

my G scale currently runs with DC on the rails. I run PS2 and PS3 engines using DCS and full control. They run fine in conventional too. There's much less control of extra sounds.

GRJ,

I tried my first upgrade on a williams diesel and had no luck. I received the PS3 kit and read the instructions over and over and familiarized myself with what I had to do. first thing I did was install the couplers then installed the board on the frame along with the speaker. You are 100% correct about the 40 pin harness, it is a mess. I wired the board up to the hot and common and connected the motors. I put it on the test track to check and see if all was working and I got nothing. No test tones for bell or horn and the motors do not run as the manual says it should. I'm getting power to the board and I'm getting power the rectifier and getting DC volts out but nothing is working. I'm think I have a bad board in which case I'm stuck because of no warranty. My question is am I missing something obvious or maybe something not in the book that I should know. It all seemed so simple in the manual. 

PS-3 boards come with a generic Diesel file loaded, so you should get all lights, sounds, smoke, and operations.  So are you trying this with conventional power or DCS?  Are connectors fully seated and correct?  Did you do away with the Williams bulbs and go with the LEDs?   G

What he said.   It should run with just the motors, tach sensor, and track power connected.  Lights, smoke, and couplers are just icing on the cake to see if the board is alive at all.  My board in the upgrade kit indeed came with what sounded like a SD70ACe sound file.  I loaded the proper sound and chain files and away it went.

First, thanks for the replies. I was using conventional power with a CW80. The board is mounted on the frame with no smoke unit as I don't intend to use one. Motors are wired up as is the tach sensor. Also the couplers. The manual says I should get a test tone when bell and horn buttons are pressed. I get nothing. Motors also don't respond.  Manuals says couplers should fire but they don't. I did plug in the head light and that didn't work. I'm using the LEDs that came with the kit, not the bulbs. I've pulled and seated the plugs several times with no luck. And I have also tried it with DCS.

The CW80 Is the problem I've heard.

CW80 may not trigger effects, but direction button should allow it to move and it should make sounds.  Did the HL LED light while trying to power up and capacitor charges?  G

No. No lights and no motor movement with the direction button.

If you have an ammeter, is it drawing any power at all?  Are you sure the board is actually getting track power?

GRJ

Power is getting as far as the rectifier on the board. I'm reading AC going in and I'm reading DC going out of the rectifier. I removed the heat sink so the leads going into the rectifier are easy to get to and test. But no, I did not test for any power draw.

Well, power getting to the board answers one question.   I'm thinking it may be time to have someone test the board.

I'm sure your correct, it needs to be tested. The problem is no one around here can do that. No hobby shops at all and the one in the city about 30 miles away wouldn't know the first thing to check. Besides,  the locomotive wasn't really worth the $180 for the kit. I just did it to see how difficult it was and to see if I could do it. I can't see spending more to send it to be tested. And if it's bad I've wasted that much more money for nothing because there is no warranty on it. It did seem easy to do. The hardest part seems to be wire management. If I had gotten a good board I would have had it going pretty quick. Anyway, I do appreciate all the replies and help and I thank you very much.

Well, you can ship it first class mail for around $3, and I can do a test on the board for you.  I have the PS/3 test-set, makes the testing much easier than trying to figure it out wired into an engine.

Did you try adding it to a DCS remote?  Just curious if it was recognized.

The only person who I'd trust with a board is GGG.  It wouldn't cost much to first class mail it to him in VA Beach.  Given the price of an upgrade kit, the postage and checkout fee are justifiable.

I'm totally hurt RJR.

GRJ

Yes, I did try with the DCS remote but it didn't recognize it. I also tried with the DCS remote in conventional on a variable channel. Still nothing. As far as checking out the board, if someone can message me with a price so I know how much it would cost, I might decide to do that. I figure you may or may not want to post your fees on a open forum. I also have a TIU with a dead signal on fixed 1. I may just have that looked at too.

did you look at the 40 pin harness thoroughly as the wires are very small and make sure no wires are pulled out of the connector or cut or pinched. also thoroughly check the tack reader wiring thoroughly may be even ring out all wires with a ohm meter without the board connected.

good luck hope you figure it out!

wish you lived near me and I would come over and try to help, but I'm in new jersey!

Alan

I'd contact George (GGG), he will do right by you.  It's sounding more like the board may have a problem, but without actually seeing it, it's hard to know for sure.

If you got anything but the track power connected to chassis ground, that's really bad for the health of these boards, and it only takes a moment to kill them.

I can fix your TIU and test your PS-3 board too.  I would test board for free if fixing your TIU.  My e-mail is in my profile.

I trust John to test your board too!

I would be surprised if the board was dead out of the box, because it is loaded and tested with a SF.  Some times they are defective and won't load a new sound file, but they should work out of the box.   G