PS1 on TIU Var1 - odd sounds?

Are you using the Z-750 controller with the TIU or just the Brick?  Should only be the brick.  Sounds like the board doesn't handle the chopped sine wave well.  G

Just the brick, using the TIU to vary voltage. (The 750 controller usually stays in the closet, as it doesn't really seem to be compatible with anything I have.) I'm wondering if at lower voltages the TIU is chopping to much and the PS1 is somehow interpreting it as a DC component, triggering the whistle.

Fred

Fred,

    That's what is happening. I have found that setting the voltage at 16 to 17 volts with a Z-4000 or Post War ZW transformer usually solves the problem. This way you are using the TIU at the higher end with the engine running slower. An 18 volt transformer may work also, but not the Z-750 at 21 or 24 volts depending on which one you have.

Put a lighted car on the track with the locomotive and see if the horn stops at lower voltage.  As for clanks and stuff when you try powering it with the 750 controller, you are turning the voltage up too high and you're in the reset options.  When you turn the track power on  don't exceed 7 volts, and now when you push the direction button it will go and you can then turn the power up high on the 750 controller.

Having the transformer and the controller have the same product number is very confusing when trying to describe a problem, isn't it?

I'll give the lighted car a try. I have caboose that should do the trick. Thanks for the tip.

With the Z-750 controller, when I plugged it in, the dial was all the way down, so I don't think I could have started it at a lower voltage without a lower voltage transformer. Interestingly, the transformer that controller originally came with was a 24V unit, but when I first plugged it into the TIU, I blew a TVS on the channel.  So I dumped if for a 21-22V Z750 I bought on the FS forum here, and that has worked well with the TIU.

Joe, I will stop at our local electronics store on the way home and see if I can find a 17V transformer and just roll my own solution. I don't want to get to the point where I'm spending as much on the workaround as I would on the PS2 upgrade!

Fred

I stopped at one of the local electronics megamarts (Silicon Valley - what can I say?) and picked up an 18V transformer. Not very powerful, but I figured I'd give it a try. Wired it up plugged in, and the meter read 25V. Grrrr. Put bit of a load on it, still 25V. Oh well. 

Next, I checked Dad's 50W Marx transformer. It's max is just under 14V on the accessory tap. Not enough to trigger the PS1 features, but at least enough to see what would happen when run through the TIU. It worked! Ah, 70-year-old gear - is there nothing you can't accomplish? 

See below for a picture of my anachronistic rig. Note the TVS across the accessory terminals, and the circuit breaker inline.

So, I see a ZW in my near future.

Fred

Fred,

I suggest that you consider a a Z4000 as opposed to a ZW for two reasons:

• The Z4000 allows and facilitates programming of PS1 locomotives
• The Z4000 allows the use of a Z4000 Remote Commander receiver to facilitate touchless control of the Z4000 by using DCS Z4K Tracks, as well as allowing one or both of the fixed channels to operate in variable mode.

Also, there's no need for a TVS as the TIU has one built-into each channel.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

A TIU variable channel gives 22 speed steps. Starting at 0 and going to 22. This display says volts,it is not. It is a fraction of the input. If you put in 22 volts on the input the numbers match. Put in 11 volts and the handheld will say double what the actual output voltage is.

Read the instructions for a PS-1 engine and it will say the voltage where the bell rings and the voltage where the coupler triggers. Below so many volts bell or coupler above so many volts coupler or bell. I forgot which is which. Try programming bell with bell button. It is not the default.

Jim,

 Try programming bell with bell button. It is not the default.

The remote's TR  screen has a PS1 soft key that mimics the functions of the programming button on the Z4000. I suggest using that to program PS1 engines instead of the bell button.

It is my understanding PS-1 default programming is this:

The bell will ring by pushing the whistle button when the engine is in neutral.

In forward or reverse the whistle blows by pushing the whistle button. This is the default programming.

I was suggesting programming the engine to reflect the presence of a bell button. Programming for whistle in Neutral operation.

I was wrong about the voltage thing for bell and coupler. Which is why I did not remember. 

Jim, my experience is that the whistle sounds when you press the remote's whistle button in forward or reverse, and the bell button toggles the bell on and off in F-N-R. The remote has some handy programming "macros" built in as well. Pretty well thought out, though it's clear that the PS1 really wants to be run by a nicely shaped sine wave. Even with the setup above I ran into a few sound glitches, which I assume is attributable to the chopping of the power.

Barry, I should have said used ZW. The Z4000 is a beauty, but for the price, I could upgrade the Turbine to PS2, which would be my preferred route. Financially, that's not in the cards at the moment.

The ZW will be a good bet to power Dad's 249E, which the Marx transformer really isn't up for. It should work well with the Atlas SW9 I picked up at O Scale West, which also had some audio issues when driven by the TIU. 

I don't have proper transformer, and it looks like one can be had at a very reasonable price. There seems to be a ton of them on the market.

I have a stash of circuit breakers and TVSs and good wiring skills, so I'm not too concerned about adding those. And with the ZW (or equivalent), I won't even need to break out the TIU when running it. I run a Carpet Central, so it's not like I have to dig into fixed layout wiring. 

Thanks for all the input, guys. This is why I love this forum!

Fred

You are programmed with whistle in neutral operation. This is what you want with a bell button.

If you use a ZW without the bell button and no TIU you would want to reprogram to bell in neutral operation to have access to the bell.

How does your engine work with just the Z-750 and no TIU?

Using the Z-750 controller with the 750 brick, all without the TIU, it really doesn't work at all. Whacko sounds, no movement.

I've never even tried putting the 750 controller between the brick and the TIU. The purist in my doesn't see the point.  I like the Variable output concept precisely because I wanted to avoid having a lever between the power and the TIU. However, it doesn't look like that's practical for PS1. (Works reasonably well with pre-war Lionel and Marx though.)

I have found (and won) a fairly serviceable looking (and bench-tested) ZW for under $100 that looks like it should fit the bill just fine. CU doesn't work, but I imagine I can work through it if I ever need it.

For the bell button, I figured I'd just fabricate a whistle/bell controller per diagrams elsewhere on these forums. I have a bunch of 6A diodes here somewhere, and switches I can scrounge from my jukebox. Homebrew!

Fred