I suppose all my questions could be answered if if just buy a kit and give it a try. My experience is limited to R+R repairs and a couple of ERR kits.
I see very little comments about the challenges and compromises involved In the upgrade kits. What level of expertise is required to do an installation? Does the upgrade instructions adequately show how to wire the smoke unit for chuffing? Do they show how to download sound files? Is there any tech support (ERR is very helpful in this reagard)?
Bob, basic wiring and soldering skills are required. I suggest the first upgrade be a wide body diesel, which has more room. If existing smoke unit is fan driven, it will chuff. The upgrade instructions are adequate regarding smoke unit wiring, except for certain types from mid-90s. Tech support is available on this forum.
Narrow body diesels are more difficult because of less space. Hardest I've done is GG1. A steamer with board in loco is more challrngimg.
I suppose all my questions could be answered if if just buy a kit and give it a try. My experience is limited to R+R repairs and a couple of ERR kits.
I see very little comments about the challenges and compromises involved In the upgrade kits. What level of expertise is required to do an installation? Does the upgrade instructions adequately show how to wire the smoke unit for chuffing? Do they show how to download sound files? Is there any tech support (ERR is very helpful in this reagard)?
It may be easier than it seems because you are replacing everything except the roller pick ups and motors?
Buying the kit and doing an upgrade are the only way you'll really find out. One of the challenges in small steamers sometimes ends up being the tach reader, I've had several that I had to custom mount as the supplied mount wouldn't work. Of course, there is also the tether between the locomotive and the tender, many times that will require some surgery to make it fit.
The electrical stuff is typically pretty easy, it's the mechanical prep work that usually takes the time.
Lima, depends on the loco you are upgrading and what features you want
The lack of a battery alone negates several potential operating problems.
Barry, I was lead to believe that the PS/3 upgrade kit would have a piggyback board that uses incandescent lighting. Is there a harness that allows direct use of the LED lighting?
At the risk of causing a fusillade of disagreement, I will say that I prefer PS2 to PS3, from what I've experienced. My 22 PS2 locos are rock solid. I turn on track power, hit startup, and they go. My 2 PS3s are bit bit more finicky. That's why I just bought 3 PS2 steam upgrade kits before the supply is exhausted. If the S-gauge PS3 kit ever hits the market, I will get at least one for another upgrade I'd like to do, but that is for size and not performance.
Upgrading a non-MTH engine is a bit more difficult than an older MTH engine. Most times mods have to be made to install the engine connector plug and tach reader/flywheel/tape, not impossible but something to think about.
I prefer PS2 in steam and ERR in diesel, reason being is the ERR kit needs something on the axle(s) to activate the chuff (at least that's what I was lead to believe), but that may be just as easy as getting the tach reader/tape/flywheel installed for the PS2.
Other than drilling holes, having enough space to install everything, and the plug on the engine, PS2 is pretty straight-forward. Downloading the files has not been a problem for me.
I've done 5 steam PS2 upgrades and 1 diesel PS2 upgrade. I've done 3 ERR upgrade. It's pretty cool when your engine comes alive after doing these upgrades 
Feet, two surmountable issues you'll face is that you may have to enlarge the hole ion the loco shell that holds the teher (I don't know if PS3 upgrade kits will use a wireless drawbar or a tether. The other issue is how to handle the smoke unit. The instructions in the PS2 upgrade kit manual did not cover all the variations in smoke units; my Challenger's smoke unit needed rewiring not covered in the manual.
I have the o gauge railroading video guide that tell in great detail how to rework the smoke unit. If i find i have a oddball smoke unit i will probably replace it.
What I had to do was rewire the existing 2 heaters from parallel rto series, or vice versa (I forget which), and this was not covered anywhere. It was a smoke unit that differed from the original after warranty replacement.
Replacement is not always simple. When MTH replaced the smoke unit under warranty, I found that when the loco went over a rise, the motor would cant and the flywheel rub on the new unit, causing the logo to hesitate.
What I had to do was rewire the existing 2 heaters from parallel rto series, or vice versa (I forget which), and this was not covered anywhere. It was a smoke unit that differed from the original after warranty replacement.
Replacement is not always simple. When MTH replaced the smoke unit under warranty, I found that when the loco went over a rise, the motor would cant and the flywheel rub on the new unit, causing the logo to hesitate.
Was your loco steam or diesel? Mine are all steam. This sound like a big problem.
For PS/2, the two resistors are in parallel yielding 8 ohms.
feet, this loco was a 1995 whistle-only Challenger. I have upgraded 3 steamers (1 each MTH, Lionel, & a tiny Weaver brass 0-6-0) & 7 or 8 diesels (MTH, Weaver, Williams). I've also upgraded 2 steamers from 5-volt to 3-volt, and am planning to gut 3 steamers that have in-loco 5-volt boards and replace them with 3-volt PS2 systems with boards in tenders.
I would not say that I encountered any "big" problems. The rubbing flywheel was a freak. Some installations take a bit more thought than others.
Roughly speaking, the largest loco with the largest tender probably would be easier. There are some tricks one can do with speakers and batteries to minimize the space they consume.
GRJ, thanks. That means the original resistors in my whistle only 1994+/- Challenger were in series.
Yes, Early engine with a separate PCB board had individual wires to each element, so sometimes you need to solder both resistor ends to each other to get the parallel connection. Not really a major issue. G
GGG, that loco was pre-PS1. But maybe MTH under warranty had replaced the original unit with one designed for PS1. The problem was that the manual didn't cover how to change that version of the unit, so I had to figure it out. Someone without experience could have had a problem, not the least of which was recognizing that the instructions didn't cover that version. Feet shouldn't lose sleep; this was a freak event.
Defender is less than half that price. And other sources are even cheaper.
A MTH rep told me this summer in Ceveland that they were working only on a "3-2" service kit. He did not know if they were going to release a "3-1" kit (Which would be more extensive
Is that still correct?
He may have been referring to a kit tl upgrade locos that have PS2 5-volt boards, which are failing, to PS3
A 3-2 board is a special PS3 board designed to replace a failed PS2 board. I think that is what MTH priority is on.
A 3-1 kit (if they do it). Would be an upgrade from PS-1 to PS-3.
Whether you will see it in a kit sold retail is still debatable. MTH sells a PS-2 3V board AE-0000015 and 16 that is a PS-2 3V board with the connectors for PS-2 5V harness. You also buy the hardware kit IC-0000023 or 24 (Steam/Diesel) which has the 4 ohm speaker and 2.4V battery and harness, along with hardware to convert the PS-2 5V engine.
At this point boards are still only sold to MTH ASCs. Only the PS-2 upgrade kit is sold to retail customers direct. But it comes without a warranty unless an MTH ASC installs it.
MTH priority is on the PS-3 with 5V connectors since the PS-2 5V board is no longer made and service parts for PS-2 3V still exist.
Looks like the new PS-3 replacement board will be priced around $230 MSRP though that may not be firm yet. A PS-2 replacement is $200 MSRP. G
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