PS3 starts up without hitting startup

Jeff,

I have the same problem with a set of E8's I own.  What is happening is the engine is coming up in conventional mode (you can verify this by cycling the power like you would for a conventional engine and after the first cycle the engine should move forward.  Just don't do it at 18v!)  There seems to be an issue with some PS3 missing the watchdog signal when you first power on a layout.  In my case, I found that using either of the variable TIU outputs caused the issue more frequently.  I fixed (but not totally eliminated) this by going to the DCS setup on the remote and setting the variable channels to fixed.  With the variable channels in fixed, leave the ZW at full voltage and when you power up 99% of the time the engine will not start in conventional mode.  I say 99% of the time because every now and again, it still does.

There are also other threads here that discuss this.  Search for PS3 startup should get you some results.

Hope this helps

Tony

This is a known bug and MTH is working on it.

Try powering the TIU via Fixed #1 instead of the Aux. Power port. if the problem goes away, then it's most likely the bug causing it.

so I should just run wires through fixed1 instead of jumping to variable 1

bigdogjeff1 posted:

so I should just run wires through fixed1 instead of jumping to variable 1

That should work!

Barry Broskowitz posted:

This is a known bug and MTH is working on it.

Try powering the TIU via Fixed #1 instead of the Aux. Power port. if the problem goes away, then it's most likely the bug causing it.

So it's the use of the AUX port for power?  I use a Z500 to power my TIU directly.  I never thought of trying to power it through Fixed1 to see if that helped.  As I wrote above, setting the variable channels to fixed helped tremendously, but the issue still crops up once in a while.

 . If you remove the aux power, make sure you unplug the aux power  jack as well from the tiu. , unplugging the brick from the wall outlet is not good enough. 

I don't have a brick I use zw 275 power fixed 1 jumped to aux 1 

Jeff,

I don't have a brick I use zw 275 power fixed 1 jumped to aux 1

If you aren't powering the TIU via the Aux. Power port, then the known bug isn't causing your issue.

Well it just happens with this one engine no others so any one have any ideas as what this can be and what I can try

What can you try??? how about a small test track hooked up to fixed 1.    ZW to fixed 1 IN. Fixed 1 out to test track.

Try a dcs signal test with a known good engine and it is??

Try the proto-3  now .

Jeff,

My wiu is connected by usb but I took that out of the mix for now and it was still doing it . But I flip 1 switch and my whole layout is live unless I shut the zw throttles down.

I did a factory reset on the engine and added back to the remote then turned power back on and it worked starts the right way then did that 2 more times with no problem the last time I shut the remote down and the layout and brought it all back up and it started on its own and smoke turned on and volume went down really low again.

Track signal is????

Track signal is 10 everywhere 

It seem it's a proto-3 engine  thing....  

For what it's worth, I too have one main power switch that turns on the whole layout, except,,,,,,,I keep the two Z4000 transformers for the main lines OFF, and only turn the handles up to 18 volts when I'm ready to run. 

You don't suppose that your transformers/power supplies are "powering up" before the TIU can generate the watch dog timer?

I think it would always be nice to get a full description of any known bugs.

I use 2 180 watt Lionel bricks that power up on the same switch as my TIU (aux power wall wart) and it always worked good.

I'm having an issue right now where my lead PS3 CR SD80MAC engine is firing up with power up. I now have that loop on a Z4000 handle. It worked good for a month before. I need to investigate more if it's something interfering? It just started happening this weekend when the grandson came over to run trains. I don't know what's causing it yet. I walked away.

Hot Water posted:

For what it's worth, I too have one main power switch that turns on the whole layout, except,,,,,,,I keep the two Z4000 transformers for the main lines OFF, and only turn the handles up to 18 volts when I'm ready to run. 

You don't suppose that your transformers/power supplies are "powering up" before the TIU can generate the watch dog timer?

 The watch dog signal goes out any time the voltage on a tiu channel is raised above 0. .  If only fixed 1  is used the watch dog only goes out on fixed 1. You may have a point but we leave our handles on full (pw-zwS) and also power up the layout via  wall switches in another room.  All our engine's stay dark and silent which leads me to believe this is a proto-3 issue., We have no  proto-3s.    HW if you have an old AM/FM radio that  plugs into a wall outlet, plug it in to the same plug the layout is powered and you can hear the different  bursts of data being sent via the tiu including the "watch dog signal" 

.  Set the radio to AM. .   I figure you & I are the only ones  still using  AM radios.

I don't know what this could be like I said I rest engine and it started up just fine, until I shut down remote and layout and brought everything back up and it didn't work again and when I hit startup the volume was down low and smoke came back on even thought on remote it says I have volume all the way up and smoke off. this is odd!

I have this issue periodically on a PS3 switcher that sits in the siding dead end. I am not using the Aux nor any variable channels just one fixed channel. The engine starts up, front light comes on, but will not move with the remote. I usually just shut the engine down with the remote, however I do not have the issue if I move the engine a few inches forward or backward on the track from it's current position.

Been doggin this topic from the beginning and have a technical question.

Do the super caps charge up when watchdog signal sent or only after command "startup"?

are u sure you have the DCS turned on, other wise it  would exactly what yourdescribing

Alan

willygee posted:

Been doggin this topic from the beginning and have a technical question.

Do the super caps charge up when watchdog signal sent or only after command "startup"?

  Great question   It's very confusing because not all proto-3 miss the watch dog. , It seems a engine with a good battery is better off than the ones with the capacitor.  Is the battery engine in a state ready to receive dcs commands ? or does the Capacitor engine have to wait for the cap to charge?

How  long  does it take for  a cap to charge anyway??

Supercaps charge in approx. 20 seconds from the time the engine receives power.

repair technician posted:

are u sure you have the DCS turned on, other wise it  would exactly what yourdescribing

 

Alan

 

yes dcs is on,

I have three other engines on the track 2 ps 3 and 1 ps2 and this engine is the only one that does this. 

All my stuff is connected to the same power strip so when I turn that o everything turns on. Then I move zw throttle up to give power to the track . I did a reset on the triplex and powered back up reentered the triplex in the remote turned the throttle down and powered back up and was fine and did that a couple times and it worked every time until I powered the remote down then brought power back up and remote and it started up before I could start it up could this be a remote thing.

Ok I changed the batteries in the remote and took and did reset again then added again started up no problem then I shut down track and remote then turned everything back on and no problem the I shut everything down and waited 2 or 3 minutes and turned it back on when track came on I seen the lights on the train come on and few sec later engine started without me touching the remote. So I think some how it's not remembering because the volume drops and smoke comes on when on remote the volume is up and smoke is off. I don't think it's any thing with wifi because I took off and same results.

I wonder if anyone has pulled the cap and installed a battery for troubleshooting purposes. I thought Engineer Joe had an issue w/ ps3 in one of his conversions and did this..might have been another forum member.

This problem is not new and has previously been discussed here. My own conclusions are it is unique to some PS3 engines and not all. The ones that are sensitive respond differently on different circuits of track. The circuits with high load, many engines on them, seem to be more problematic. Barry suggested that the TIU's may be limiting the power on the initial power up. This is an annoyance that I wish would be fixed somehow. Barry suggested putting engines on tracks that can be toggled on and off. When I power up my layout with 15 engines sitting on powered tracks and only a PS3 engine starts prematurely, that says a lot about the PS3 engine to me. My experience with PS3 is limited to steamers so far.

This is just another mth problem and for me is why I buy more Lionel any more. I just don't have these problems with Lionel.

This is just one little item, but yes annoying to me, that we are discussing here. It in no way should lead into a manufacturer discussion. I have both and consider myself very fortunate to have a choice.

Every time a PS-3 engine starts up in conventional, it is looking at the smoke and volume pot setting and it sets the smoke and volume to those levels.  So your engine is behaving normally, other than missing watch dog occasionally.

I do assume it the ID remains in the system right?  If you turn track power off, the engine plays a normal shutdown sequence?

Some folks have had success with a problem engine hitting the shutdown button on the offending engine with in a few seconds of powering up to prevent the conventional start up.   G

bigdogjeff1 posted:

This is just another mth problem and for me is why I buy more Lionel any more. I just don't have these problems with Lionel.

Should we take a moment to bash all the stuff about Lionel that's annoying? Good post again!

It is very frustrating when you spend so much on something anything and it's not right. This is my only problem with what I say on my post .it just so happens to be mth a lot lately that's all.

GGG.   Interesting. I'll have to try the shutdown thing. I use to hit the shutdown and then the start. Then I saw here that you can just hit the start without doing a shutdown. It doesn't surprise me that the super caps draw more current. I wonder if I had 15 PS3 engines on the layout when I power up if they would trip the breaker? Just kidding!