Question for all the Lionel smoke unit rebuilders.

Do not use pink fiberglass! It is too fine and charrs instantly. I've never tried tiki torch wick but it seems designed for the same purpose.

 

I have used Lionels "pre cut" replacement wicking and found it is more resistant to charring as it has larger fibers than most other types of batting.

 

Ultimately the wicking is going to burn, "its the nature of the beast". Just keep plenty of fluid in there and when smoke production gets weak, even with more fluid, you may want to try the Lionel batting. Make sure your order a bunch as Lionel charges flat rate shipping.

Mike Reagan counsels against using Tiki Torch wick - he says Lionel batting works much better and lasts longer. Now, on the one hand Mike isn't exactly a disinterested party - but on the other, he's a very good engineer and he's probably spent more time designing and testing smoke units than any of us out here. I've used Tiki Torch wick in the past, and it has worked OK, but I'm more inclined to listen to Mike. 

Guys, nix all that crazy stuff.  The right product is not expensive.  I know many will attack me on this.  The Lionel wicking is number one for Lionel smoke units.   Do it the way Mike Reagan shows and you will be very happy.   I also have great luck with it in MTH smoke units.  Recently, MTH has come out with a new smoke wicking system.  It looks like a silk clothesline rope with the ends shredded.  All you do is spread the heaters and put it between them and squeeze the heaters together to hold the wicking in place.  It works fantastic for all MTH smoke units.  Works great with PS-1 smoke systems.  This subject has been beat to death in recent years.  Do it right, use the proper material and do it once.  I have used the newer MTH system in many of my own locomotives and several belonging to Locolawyer.  He demands perfection and these get his thumbs up.  The shredded ends wick the fluid great from the bottom of the bowl.

 

 

 

 

 

If you want to have someone do this work for you, our own Alex Malliae does great work with smoke units.  He will also give your TMCC steam locomotives 4 chuffs.

 

Jeff, I have a few more locomotives than 5 or 6.  I want to do a job one time and do what is stated above using the proper product.

Not to hijack this topic, but Marty are you in Florida yet?

 

Rod

Rod, no at this time.  I will contact you when I get there.  We can go bother Barry.

My tiki torch wick is lasting over a year. 

 

The Lionel wick I ordered looks more like a thin mat.

Great idea! I'm in.

 

Rod

Thanks for all the replies! I do want to do this myself!!

 

In this Lionel video that "wadding" sure looks like a tiki torch wick!!

 

Quick question fellas.In the picture that marty's showing,how to place the wick (per mth)between the resistors. then in lionel units ( not shown) mike says you want to just make shure the resistor is surrounded or sitting down in the wicking.It seems for me at least over time either way instructed  the point where the resitor rest or touches the wicking material always get chared.then as a result the resistor chared gets chared on the bottom. this happens regardless of the smoke unit type fan or puffer.This result also seem to happen faster  especialy when running them on high due to how hot the resistor gets. Is this normal or am I not keeping enough fluid in the units?

I've rebuilt several of my Lionel smoke units, and I always use the Lionel pre-cut batting. This works perfectly for me, and all of my units produce voluminous clouds of smoke afterwards.

In my opinion, it always pays to use the correct product as specified by the manufacturer. It never ceases to amaze me that people will quite happily spend many hundreds of dollars on a locomotive, and then try and save a few cents by using non-approved parts or materials.

In the past I've recommended Tiki Torch material.  It works in a pinch but I'd use the Lionel batting first.  It is made for the purpose it was intended for.

I see four different part numbers for smoke unit batting on the Lionel web site, does it matter which one is used?

I recently repacked an MTH smoke unit with Tiki torch wick because a number of people on this board recommended it, and a video on Utube demonstrated how to do it. I did notice that the replacement wick material got burnt right away.

Will the Lionel material better resist burning?

Did the Tiki Torch stuff burn because it did not have enough smoke fluid on it?

 

For me, the reason to use the Tiki Torch material is one of availability. Having purchased a package of the material to do one smoke unit, I probably have enough on hand to last a very long time. But I won't use it again if it isn't the right stuff.
Had I read this thread prior to the annual Lionel parts sale, I would have ordered some to have on hand during the sale (maybe next year).

 

Update: I found this in an old thread, written by Mike Reagan:

quote:

 Okay, #1, get rid of that tiki torch garbage! I am not a fan of it, as it chars entirely too quickly. If you're rebuilding smoke units use our precut batting; 691SMKP008, works MUCH better and is far more reliable (I think I have been at this long enough to be able to say that confidently!).

Rick,

You say that about the insulation again and again. Maybe your technique of packing does not work for you, but it is all I use anymore and my smoke repair days are over. Now the tiki wicks never worked for me. Maybe my packing method was no good there

I am sure all of the above work, but they all char in a short amount of time no matter what type you use. I use pink fiberglass exclusively, not because it lasts the longest

(and that difference is very, very small) but because it wicks the most fluid and produces the most smoke. changing batting, no matter who's it is is a regular job if you run a lot, and the pink stuff is FREE!

I wish everybody luck with whatever choice makes them happy.  If a guy has a few engines and does not mind changing wicking more often, that is great.  One thing I learned at a very young age was to listen very carefully to the guy that has been there and done that.  I would like to have a dollar for every smoke unit job Mike Reagan has done in his life. 

 

I have tried things mentioned here and have made my choice as many others have made choices.  Whatever makes you happy is a good thing.  If you are an MTH guy, you might want to try the new wicking to see if you like it.  You might.

 

Nicole, I am with you with your statement.

I'm with Marty on this one...

 

An older and much wiser person than I once told me:

 

"Experience is a good teacher - someone else's experience is a better teacher"

 

Your call....

 

Best,

Dave

What's the part number for the new MTH wick?  I've got two K-Line TMCC locomotives and 4 MTH PS1 locomotives that all need/will soon need to be rebuilt.  In fact I have one of the MTH steamers open now for this very purpose.  My LHS happen to have the old MTH service kit in the back so I bought some of the wick and gaskets out of it just for this locomotive, but I've been searching and researching what to get and how to get the best out of both smoker types.  I'll be making my own gaskets (One of the perks of working at a company that makes laser cutters.) but I've been trying to figure out what wicking to order since it's a non-stocking item for my LHSs.

Same part number for new wick.  AA-0000001. 

 

One thing about the Lionel video for opening the fan hole to 1/4".  I have several different makers smoke unit, and the MTH also have a small air intake hole, yet they smoke extremely well.  I would imagine at some point if the intake is too large you may not develop the pressure to push smoke out.  Interesting approaches to optimizing smoke output. G

Thanks to all who replied and for all the various comments. I have to admit, I admire the passion!

 

When I started this thread my goal was to see what was "working". There are many talented people on this forum and many always looking to do things a little better. I never intended this thread to be a this is right or that is wrong, just looking to see what people who run their trains more than I do have been successful with.

 

I am a firm believer in following a manufactures recommendations but I'm sure in our daily lives we have products that we have improved upon that go outside what the manufacturer recommends.

 

I still go back to Mike Reagan's TMCC smoke upgrade video. A) That still looks like a tiki torch wick to me!  B) Secondly, we have the manufacturer telling us to cut off the sleeve around the resistor that they installed and I believe are still using.

 

One day someone here will stumble upon the product Lionel is using for their batting. I can't imagine this product is made specifically for them.

 

I stopped at 2 hobby shops today and neither had the Lionel batting available. Probably one of the reasons other products were introduced into the smoke units. For me it's not a matter of cost, but what's available.

 

I'll continue to search for the Lionel batting locally and give it a shot.

 

Thanks Again to all who replied! 

Lionel has not used the sleeve around the heating element in several years. MTH never did, as far as I know. I took apart an MTH smoke unit from the late 90's and it didn't have a sleeve.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification regarding the Lionel sleeve!

See this website: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkDlQ5Cwwlk

 

Mike Reagan's video tutorial on how to improve TMCC smoke units.

 

I ordered the wicking material direct from Lionel over a year ago.

Jeff,

 

  If you get out our way again, we have plenty of batting in stock.

 

Bill

I don't see what "technique of packing method" is going to prevent  pink isulation from charring in a hurry.

 

It may depend on what type of loco/smoke unit but I tried it on my legacy M1b from 2008 and the pink insulation charred and burned onto the resistor in a matter of minutes to the point I that I almost couldn't remove it.

 

I've found the "precut  wicking" from Lionel to be made of larger fibers and far more charr resistant.

 

If pink insulation works for you thats great. Its just not something that in my experience, I can recommend, of course I'm not the final judge or opinion on this hobby. I'm just throwing in my $.02 as they say.

Most all work. My preference is Quarts Wool . It works well and can withstand extreme high temperatures. Very hard to find and expensive if you can find it. But great stuff.

Rick, you sure you were not using cotton candy?  Just joking....G

Interesting stuff and you are correct, expensive!!! Where do you source yours from?

I'm assuming you're talking about Quartz Wool?  Looks interesting, and I'd love to give it a try as well.   It might be the first stuff that doesn't char.

First lets all agree that smoke units of every kind are high maintenance items so any method is likely to be temporary and that we are really talking about establishing a minimum time between repairs which is why I am interested in the 'wool' technique.

 

Now!This is the method for packing, try it Rick!

 

Here is the packing method I use. If you do not like it do not try it, but it works for me and is worth trying, as I will the new 'wool' method, but I will pack it the same way I do this insulation. I found it and the insulation, currently gives me the best mean time between repairs.

 

One can always learn something...... Thank you Marty!

 

From Previous posts on this subject.

"What I use when opening any smoke unit up for some reason is ordinary house insulation. You know, the pink stuff in your attic.

I have determined over the years that it is easier to work with and never ever has me come back to fix again.

When packing the unit, saturate the insulation, keep adding more and saturating till unit is full and insulation is saturated. Using a tool, pack it nicely so it does not block the fan flow but is high enough to snuggle in around the resistors. Screw down the top of the unit and forget it.

I also have a habit of adding fluid to any engine before I take it out of use for any extended period About 8 drops. Also I store them on shelves upright.

Works for me!