Question for GGG, Barry, WillyGee, Guns, RJR and other DCS Wizards.

Good morning Dave...Which model PS2 engine?

Weird symptom, model matters, what is current draw?  G

Bill & George,

This engine is a Pa (RailKing) Rugged Rails 2-8-0 Steam Engine, with PS2 Digital Command.

It has worked perfectly for years prior to this happening.  

George I have no idea of the required current draw, the Transformer was set at it's usual 18V to run the Engine.

PCRR/Dave

Dave, what is it.  Product number.  I do know you would never run anything with an old white battery if it is early PS2.

MartyF,

   Item No 30-4137-1E, I believe this is the product Number you are talking about.

Thanks much for the help sir.  The engine is an early PS 2 for sure, purchased long ago. One of the very few of my engines without a BCR installed.

PCRR/Dave

Bill,

   That's her, any insight on what just happened?

PCRR/Dave

Did you have the old battery in?

MartyF,

   Yes sir the old original Battery is still in the engine.

PCRR/Dave

18 year old battery...

Bill,

   If the Battery is the problem, I will order another BCR and install it.  I wanted to make sure the battery is the problem before ordering another BCR.  Sense the old man passed away and the younger couple purchased the company the BCR's are now $35.00 each delivered.  Just put one in my original P2 NASA Switcher this last month, the BCR's are no longer a cheap item.

PCRR/Dave

These are pretty easy to install. I have them in my two PS2 engines.

John H,

How do you make them stay in the engine, solder them?  More information please!

PCRR/Dave

Yup. Positive to positive and neg to neg on battery hookup. I'm looking for a picture I posted a while ago.

John H,

  How did I miss that thread before, please show me the picture of how you installed the Super Cap.

PCRR/Dave

Pine Creek Railroad posted:

Bill,

   If the Battery is the problem, I will order another BCR and install it.  I wanted to make sure the battery is the problem before ordering another BCR.  Sense the old man passed away and the younger couple purchased the company the BCR's are now $35.00 each delivered.  Just put one in my original P2 NASA Switcher this last month, the BCR's are no longer a cheap item.

PCRR/Dave

You can do a temporary test using  alkaline batteries...what does your charging port look like?

Another thread. My picture is near the end.

Take out the battery and see if it'll will start up with sound. ( no battery no BCR) It should still start up with sound & have it's ID original  number.  This will interesting, Does a dead battery short out the circuit board temporally ??

willygee posted:

18 year old battery...

come on son!

2018-2005=?

you didn't think I would let that go did you? 

I have to believe that the life of the engine shows up in later years. I have some older engines that still run great. Some that have had troubled lives, the battery goes on early. I bought some G scale engines used that show evidence of heat exposure. Those batteries were shot too.

 I stated before that it appeared I was seeing problems after ten years. I made that post years ago and other engines still haven't had their batteries changed. I really don't have any conclusions on battery life still. Some are getting up towards 15! A few died out early.

 I started swapping out my G scale batteries for BCRs and ran out of money. So a good portion never got touched. One engine refused to run with a BCR. I swapped it for another newer engine's used batteries. Both ran fine afterwards! ????

If it was shut down with a dead battery, it will have to be re-added into the remote.

Engineer-Joe posted:

willygee posted:

18 year old battery...

come on son!

2018-2005=?

you didn't think I would let that go did you? 

I have to believe that the life of the engine shows up in later years. I have some older engines that still run great. Some that have had troubled lives, the battery goes on early. I bought some G scale engines used that show evidence of heat exposure. Those batteries were shot too.

 I stated before that it appeared I was seeing problems after ten years. I made that post years ago and other engines still haven't had their batteries changed. I really don't have any conclusions on battery life still. Some are getting up towards 15! A few died out early.

 I started swapping out my G scale batteries for BCRs and ran out of money. So a good portion never got touched. One engine refused to run with a BCR. I swapped it for another newer engine's used batteries. Both ran fine afterwards! ????

2018-2005=? oops

Juz seein whuze payin attention..

Dave...i've never gone the BCR route when batteries fail. I use nimh packs and just solder in the leads from the old pack. I have no experience with 5 volt boards though. Packs below were 3 for 8.99 shipped.

Dave Zucal posted:

If it was shut down with a dead battery, it will have to be re-added into the remote.

Nope....Nothing can be changed with a dead battery including it'd ID number, It will still  have the ID created when the battery was good.   It should start up if it's still in the remote. and run in command without a battery.

IDs stick with the engine unless edited, factory reset. or ID taken  with another engine when adding. 

Gentlemen,

   I was hoping that GGG and others might know what the sound might mean, I was hoping a board had not fried for some reason.  I will put a regular 9V Battery in her and test her out.  If everything works properly, I will insert a BCR, like most of my other engines have in them.

PCRR/Dave

GREGG, the battery is needed for proper shut down. The address will remain in the remote, but will be of no use. The engine won't remember what address it was assigned. You'll get a message "engine not on tracks" when you try to start it the next time with the address in the remote. You then have to re-add it and end up with two of the same addresses. One will need to be deleted. If you don't believe me, remove a battery from one of your engines and give it a try. It will start initially because it was shut down with the good battery you removed, but once you shut it down again, it's address in the remote will no longer be of any use.  

hi  why use the bcr when the battery's are much cheaper $12.00 plus shipping from MTH!

Alan

repair technician posted:

hi  why use the bcr when the battery's are much cheaper $12.00 plus shipping from MTH!

Alan

or these.

Can't explain a sound not heard?  Even so, your description doesn't make sense.  Does the headlight stay on, will the train move?  Either way, I would recommend changing the battery..  Or at least remove it and then test engine with DCS.  It should still run, just not retain any setting changes when done.  G

Dave Zucal posted:

GREGG, the battery is needed for proper shut down. The address will remain in the remote, but will be of no use. The engine won't remember what address it was assigned. You'll get a message "engine not on tracks" when you try to start it the next time with the address in the remote. You then have to re-add it and end up with two of the same addresses. One will need to be deleted. If you don't believe me, remove a battery from one of your engines and give it a try. It will start initially because it was shut down with the good battery you removed, but once you shut it down again, it's address in the remote will no longer be of any use.  

Nope  not the case here. As I mentioned, IDs stick  the  engine , if the    id gets changed from the  original  created when the battery was good    then the engine must be deleted and re-added each time.. 

You try it....  . Remove the battery   from a proto-2 .    The engine still has it's original ID created when the battery was good.   start it up... it will with  Version 4.3..

. Or try deleting it from the remote, it should add back at the ID created when the battery was good  if the ID is  still available.(open on the remote) I think we're on the same page Dave.  I also suspect there are quite a few engine with dead or weak  batteries that start up every day. You just can't make any changes to them.

Yeah lets gets back to  Dave's  engine... any sound or is it toast with or without a new battery/ BCR?

GGG,

   The engine does not stay on, when the start up button is pushed, after the Err sound the light and all shuts back down.   When I get time the 1st thing I will do is insert a new 9V Battery and test the engine using it. 

PCRR/Dave

Dave just talked to Linda at J&W last week that battery is 32.95 shipped it came and installed it.

Good luck hope your test works out.

Dieseler,

   When I opened the Tender up, the Battery is not the 6V type at all, it's the 3.0 type 2.4V.  Called Linda at  J&W, and ordered the BCR2.  Now get this, the BCR2 is only $20.00 after Pa Tax and Shipping to my door.  1/2 the cost of the original 9V type BCR even before Tax and Shipping.

We will see if this corrects the problem, when the BCR2 arrives.  I have lots of other Engines to run while waiting for the delivery.  Guess I will have to suffer running my Legacy Shay instead of the 2-8-0 Steamer.  The sufferage around here is something terrible I tell ya.

That stinking bunch of Politicians at NASA management  would not grant permission for the PCRR to use the old NASA #3 Switcher on front of the US Army Train, had to bring the Legacy Shay down from the mountain, and hold up an entire logging crew.  Politicians gave us some dribble about National Security, can you imagine that!

Always having fun running the Trains!

PCRR/Dave

Well GREGG you are correct. I tried it. Never realized 4.3 corrected that issue.

 Hey Dave, you had me going because I don't have a layout at the moment. All my stuff is put way and I couldn't really test it . As  we all know   things can change very quickly with each new software version. It wouldn't have surprised me if it  had been  the other way around .

. I know we've had to delete and engine and add it back again  because  the engine  was not found, Other engines worked fine  with the same remote.   It was shown in the remote as ID 3, and added back at ID 3 after the delete  and then it  started up.... Go figure??? (4 tiu in super)

Hope Dave,s engine is ok,   It seems it lights up  and has    the err sound then goes dead???? 

Dave, I'm attaching a picture of one of my home-built supercaps, using a supercap from Digikey, and the wires from an MTH battery.  Total cost about $5-6.  I slide heat shrink tubing over the plug wires, solder the wires to the supercap (using heatsink on the supercap bare leads), clip off the extra supercap leads, slide the tubing over the bare leads, zap the tubing with a fireplace lighter.   I sometimes leave the supercap loose in the loco, and sometimes use a piece of double-sided tape.  Wires can be made long enough to place the supercap anywhere, and it takes up much less room than the battery.  I have also made a few using plugs that go directly into the PS2 board, rather than just putting it into the expting wiring that has the charging port, which is not needed.

Real simple.  I've made up a couple of dozen.  I know you can do it.

Dave, I kind of doubt that the battery would cause the problem which you have.  If a battery is bad, I would expect the engine to start up and possibly not be controllable, unless the battery had somehow shorted out & blown the charge circuit.  I'll defer to GGG for the final word.

I've had these MTH 3-volt (2.4) battery packs last 14 years.

RJR,

   Your thoughts on that are the same as mine, for this reason I started the thread.  I hope one of the boards in the engine is not blown.  I was hoping just by the sound I described GGG or Guns might know if a board failed.   The Engine was surly never abused.  Electronics is a funny thing however.

Thanks for helping me with the SuperCap via e-mail!

PCRR/Dave

A shorted battery can cause a shutdown symptom, which is why I stated to remove battery and test.  G

GGG,

   You are advising me to run the engine without a battery and see what happens, Correct.  That is how I am interpreting your prior post.

PCRR/Dave