Question on Rock Island Passenger Diesel Paint Scheme Timeline

I have been wondering about this.

Also, some main bodies are silver and some are tan. Which one happened when?

Paint schemes standards for the Rock Island is a bit of a mine field.  While the freight and passenger schemes started out fairly consistent, starting in the 1950's changes came in the form of simplification of the original schemes and paint schemes inherited from locomotives purchased 2nd hand.  As a result, it is always best to do your own research even down to the road number as there was little consistency after roughly 1953 or so. 

The paint scheme of the Lionel E7s represents the second paint scheme these locomotives received which was a simplification of the original Rocket scheme that started with the TA streamliners and was applied to all cab units up to and included the new orders for E8s through 1952.  While I don't have an exact date for the scheme on the Lionel units, a reasonable estimate would be 1953-1955 into the either the 1960's or early 1970's based on the specific unit in question.  The Rock Islands experts may correct me here.

The original scheme was some variation of the scheme shown on these E8s.  Some units had stainless steel sides or in lieu of that, the silver was "light aluminum".  This appeared on TAs, E6s, E7s, E8s, FP7s and on the DL units.  If you are looking to model anything prior to 1950, the original paint scheme would be most appropriate. 

I hope that helps some!

Seeing a Rock Island train with two diesels in the same paint scheme was something of a novelty! I want to say the change to the first version of the 'simplified' paint scheme was 1958...if not, it was only a year or two before or after.

Dave, congratulations on your interest in the late, lamented Rock Island.  It was a mighty fine road, as the song says, and had some of the best employees around.

Unfortunately, even though the employees were loyal and friendly, the bank account was never very fat, and as a result, the diesel shop at Silvis was always having to pinch every nickel.  Therefore, they could not always do things according to their standards and they had an array of locomotives of the same model, of which no two were alike, due to creative cost cutting.

Paint was always an expense that took a hit, and the paint scheme got simpler and simpler with each year.  The all maroon nose and light aluminum Rocket paint scheme that you show in your photo did show up in the 1950's.  You would have to look at photos of the locomotive you have (by number) to see how it was different from other E7's.  Sometimes those Rock Island engines went years between paint jobs.  Steve Goens has a couple of Rock Island books out, including one on Rock Island passenger trains in Texas, and it shows just what you wrote about.  The maroon Rocket scheme survived into the 1960's on some units.

The Rock Island Technical Society used to put out a nice, slick paper, magazine, and -- if you can find a library with all the issues, you might find an article about the passenger paint schemes.  The archives were at some college in Iowa, I believe.  Good luck in your quest for authoritative information about the dates at which the various paint schemes were first used.

Thanks for the input guys. If someone can (please) verify that the simplified paint scheme on these Lionel engines was in use by no later than 1955, I'll be happy to keep and use them. If it becomes clear (as I suspect) that this paint scheme was really from the latter '50's on, I'll probably eventually look for a new home for them. I'd hate to let them go, as they are terrific looking models.

It has always amazed me how difficult it is to find detailed timeline info on railroad paint schemes and models, considering the size of the companies involved and how professionally these decisions must have been documented and transmitted company-wide for them to actually be implemented! We're not talking about little mom-and-pop auto car repair and/or body shops here, but shops that employed hundreds if not thousands of people. These engines didn't magically repaint themselves! But, that being said, that's where the great forum folks can so often come to the informational rescue! Thanks for all your collective input.

David Ogletree
Needham, MA

Does anyone know about my silver, versus tan question? I bought the Williams E7 locos when they came out, but was disappointed that the main body was tan instead of silver.

The Unique Art ones are tan. The K-Line ones are silver.

@David Ogletree posted:

Hmmm. I may have answered my own question here...

Here is a picture of E7 #633 in 1957, still clearly with the original Rocket scheme:

Here is a picture of E7 #634 in 1961, already looking dirty, in the simplified scheme:

Looks like I may be outa luck... Sigh.

DO

Remember what Tom said, the road was broke and went to simpler schemes for repaints.  If the RI was anything like the Pennsy in its later years, the RI probably took years to repaint its engines, and probably sometimes not until it had to.  The picture of #633 could have been taken years after the change from that scheme. 

As Jonathan brought up, he thinks your engine's paint scheme first showed up around 1954+/- a year.  The original scheme could have lasted several years beyond that before they were all painted.

I'd say keep the engines and tell everyone they were some of the first engines to get the new paint job.

@RoyBoy posted:

Does anyone know about my silver, versus tan question? I bought the Williams E7 locos when they came out, but was disappointed that the main body was tan instead of silver.

The Unique Art ones are tan. The K-Line ones are silver.

In an earlier discussion on this from 2017 (RI Artificial Al), Bob (RIRocket) wrote that:

"the Silver is NOT appropriate for the full rocket scheme, unless the locomotive is a pre-war type:  then, the rear sides would be stainless steel.  Actually, the only company that came closest to the real color was Williams.  They did not use tan--it's closer to the artificial aluminum color than anyone else has made.  That's the official color:  artificial aluminum.  I was in the Rock Island Technical Society, now defunct unfortunately, and I've seen the original paint chips used for the color.  Don't be fooled, either, by the Kodachrome shots that make the color look bright white--they have obviously changed color over the years.  I forget what company it was, but there was a model paint company that actually came out with the artificial aluminum color years ago."

@David Ogletree posted:

Hmmm. I may have answered my own question here...

If you look at E7 633, it appears that the maroon color is consistent across the locomotive, no orange-red that was the original scheme on the band stripe and in the center of the nose.  This too appears to be a variation on the Rocket Scheme.

Again, a case for looking at photos of your prototype and also part of the charm of the Rock Island and its various paint schemes.

@David Ogletree - Personally I prefer the paint job Lionel used on their Rock Island TMCC equipped E6 AA Set (6-14521) that they released in 2001 over the paint job on the Legacy equipped E7 AA set which you have, and it would also appear to be more in line with the time period in which you are interested.

Ron said, "I'd say keep the engines and tell everyone they were some of the first engines to get the new paint job."

I think that approach makes sense to me - I guess I'll keep 'em. I do also have the TMCC E6 A-A set from Lionel and they look very nice too. Unfortunately, they don't run properly at the moment, and I need to have them repaired. I hope to do that very soon.

As long as I can feel relatively confident that at least one E7 with that paint scheme was on the rails by the end of 1955, I will happily enjoy running it on my layout. To be clear, I have absolutely nothing against later trains and later paint schemes. But I have found that if I don't hard-limit my interests to a very specific time frame which interests me, my collection simply NEVER STOPS. And I can't survive that!

David Ogletree
Needham, MA

I favored the Rock Island (CRI&P) "Full Rocket" décor, as applied to the TA diesel and other units - until cost-cutting measures diminished eye appeal. Beauty (in RR paint schemes) may be in the eye of the beholder, but IMHO the "Full Rocket" paint scheme is just as distinctive as the SF "Warbonnet" scheme.

I collected O-gauge RI trains of many manufacturers for two decades, so my collection included nearly all the renderings -- a steady movement toward ever more simplified (and less remarkable) versions. I believe the "least decorated" RI locomotives were several UP well-worn diesels acquired near the end of the "mighty fine line." RI placed a RI herald on the nose and ran them with the UP yellow paint job more of less intact.

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394

@PH1975 posted:

@David Ogletree - Personally I prefer the paint job Lionel used on their Rock Island TMCC equipped E6 AA Set (6-14521)

The Lionel 6-14521 set's engine numbers are #628 and #630.  These engines pulled the Golden State in late 1948.  Really nice set.

ADDED:  I see you posted that you have these while I was looking for the pictures.  I had to replace the metal ring that controls speed; one completely shattered so I replaced both.  They ran well the last time I had them down.

Several members posting to this thread just lost their forum memberships because of posting copyrighted photos and not following our terms of service with regards to posting pictures that they did not take.  Remember guys to review our TOS with regards to copyright.

The earliest color photo I could find, of a Rock Island E-unit with all-maroon forward section and aluminum rear section without the window stripe or the Rocket name, as depicted in your photo, was dated 1957.  I found photographic evidence of all-maroon forward section, but with the window stripe, dated 1954.  I hope this helps.

Yes, the “full dress rocket” scheme used “imitation aluminum” as the color in the rear.  Not silver, not white.  It was the same color used on some Burlington F units.  This is an example sent to me by Steve Hile.