Rather Than Wait For Lionel's VisionLine GG-1... (More photos added 3/8/2016)

Sweet!

Looks nice together David

Rocky,

   Actually with those Atlas O Z Cars that is a way cool train, my P2 Engines do everything my Legacy Engines do at a lot less cost.  As a runner you definitely made the correct choice, especially if you got the P2 Engine at a real decent cost.  Picking up a NIB P2 GG1 at a bargain price is always a good move.

PCRR/Dave

Very nice engine, I purchased one from David a few month back , I enjoy it,  the wacky  paint job is growing on me.

I am most likely pull the trigger on the new Rivets if it can be had for a 1000.00 or less but not a penny more. 

That looks great. Nice find!

I have a Williams scale GG1 I picked up for $120 then upgraded with ERR cruise & sound. Super smooth runner.

Nick

I like that and I'm not even a GG1 kind of guy 

Very nice combo, David!

I picked up one of those at Aprils York Meet. It's a very nice locomotive.  I had my eye on the 3rd Rail model but chose the "Strasburg" PRR Old Rivets version at the time. 

I will not be in the market for the Vision Line GG1, but would have been if Lionel would have offered the Penn Central "Black Jack" GG1.

Very Nice!

Very, very nice!

Mike

Never even thought of Mth gg1s.. Funny you probley be able to buy 3 mth ones vs one visionline one..

>>>>my P2 Engines do everything my Legacy Engines do at a lot less cost.<<<<

Actually, it'll do more..  No need to use your imagination with LED's.  If you choose, the MTH GG1 will operate prototipically under catenary wire producing real sparks,

Joe 

Joe,

   Roger that!

PCRR/Dave

Lionel is encouraging folks to buy nice GG-1's at lower prices by announcing the Vision GG-1 and then telling us to wait for the catalogue. In the meantime, JLC GG-1's seem like bargains.

Scrappy

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Lionel is encouraging folks to buy nice GG-1's at lower prices by announcing the Vision GG-1 and then telling us to wait for the catalogue. In the meantime, JLC GG-1's seem like bargains.

Scrappy

While that maybe true, where do you think all those bargain JLCs are coming from?  Most likely from folks who want to buy the VL model.  Because in the end some people don't care about the price and only want the latest and greatest , right or wrong.

Last year, I got a Weaver brass GG-1 for a bargain because it was missing the pantographs. Just to see if they fit, I bought a couple of them from Williams parts and they fit perfectly. Also had it upgraded to TMCC and sound. It's one of the smoothest running engines I have. It has a creep speed that's the best. Now I just have to figure out how to make the pantographs spark.

I too was for thinking about the Lionel GG1, but I really didn't want to wait a year. I had the passenger cars and needed an engine. I found a new MTH Premier Pennsylvania GG-1 Electric Engine at Arron's trains for $500.00 and went for it.  The price of the new Lionel one even at $1000 verse this one for $500.00, is a no brainier.  Now I have another $500 to spend.  

I needed the five strip in Tuscan.  

 http://shop.aaronscitytrains.c...tric-engine/dp/13565

It's key to know what makes you happy. If saving money is what does it, that makes sense.  I'd offer a guess that most people in the market for a top of line, premium priced Lionel Legacy equipped GG1 in Vision Line would not want or be in the market for a PS2 equipped MTH premier GG1.  Two different animals in the eyes of those (not including me) who are anxiously awaiting the new GG1.  There are clearly markets for both types of locos, and insinuations that they are equivalent will probably not go down well with those who prefer the more expensive Lionel product and all that is involved in that preference: factors such as brand, operating system, latest and greatest, etc.

>>>>It's key to know what makes you happy. If saving money is what does it, that makes sense.  I'd offer a guess that most people in the market for a top of line, premium priced Lionel Legacy equipped GG1 in Vision Line would not want or be in the market for a PS2 equipped MTH premier GG1.  Two different animals in the eyes of those (not including me) who are anxiously awaiting the new GG1<<

I'm wondering what qualifies the VL GG1 to be premium while the MTH GG1 with a lower MSRP or the  JLC to be just ordinary?  Price??  Or like Lionels $650 diesels, is it just good marketing in a captured marketplace???

I picked up a mint JLC Tuscan 5 stripe for under $500 a few years ago.   I'm wondering  given a choice, who would pass on that to spend double on its VL equivalent today ?

Joe

David that is a cool looking train

I run both legacy and dcs. This gives me more flexibility.  I have the legacy bigboy and I wouldn't buy the mth big boy.  The thought of waiting for a year, plus pre ordering it with out seeing the final product, was the reason for purchasing the Mth gg1.  I had been looking for jcl in tuscan with 5 stripes for 3 months without any luck. 

In York I compared the Lionel and the Mth J3a hudson and to my eye I liked the mth. I cancelled my preorder for the lionel after seeing it. 

I'm wondering what qualifies the VL GG1 to be premium while the MTH GG1 with a lower MSRP or the  JLC to be just ordinary?  Price??  Or like Lionels $650 diesels, is it just good marketing in a captured marketplace???

Well, it's price is higher, so it's premium by definition .  As for why it might be considered "premium" in quality or being viewed as legimately the "latest and, also, greatest," that's open to interpretation and also future data. It will presumably have new operational features.  It presumably will be even nicer tooling, although that remains to be seen.  Whether it's good value depends on what you value, and how much.  This was pretty much the substance of my initial remarks. 

I was perhaps hoping to pre-empt comments suggesting that other people's assessment of value, and their perception of the relative attraction of the product are irrational or clueless, as sometimes occur on this forum. These comments say more about the individual making the comment than the subject of the comment in my view. An inability to see that other people have different needs and values than one's self is very unattractive.

Personally, I'm happy with my Century Club 1 TMCC GG1, which many would say is overpriced, outdated and out of scale.  All of which may be true, but if you push the issue with me, I'm likely to get sarcastic.

I think it is premature to pass judgment on the Vision Line GG1 when it hasn't even been catalogued yet, much less produced.  I'm sure when it's catalogued, we'll have some long winded and preachy stuff about how it's overpriced, unnecessary or less good a deal than locomotive X or Y.  And when it's produced we'll hear both positive and negative comments, with most of the negative comments coming from those who don't own one.   That's the nature of the hobby and the internet I guess.  I'm glad we haven't gone there yet.

Nice, I almost bought a Post War GG1 at York. The price was good, but I bought a Williams U33-C  instead.

"I picked up a mint JLC Tuscan 5 stripe for under $500 a few years ago.   I'm wondering  given a choice, who would pass on that to spend double on its VL equivalent today ?"

Some might prefer mint stuff with a warranty?  Early adopters and those who want the latest and greatest always pay more than those willing to go to the secondary market?

Landsteiner:

Possibly the most insightful comment made on this forum over the past year… unfortunately, it will be much too intellectual for many of THOES people to understand, thus, falling on deaf ears.

“I was perhaps hoping to pre-empt comments suggesting that other people's assessment of value, and their perception of the relative attraction of the product are irrational or clueless, as sometimes occur on this forum. These comments say more about the individual making the comment than the subject of the comment in my view. An inability to see that other people have different needs and values than one's self is very unattractive.”

Charlie

Glad you got what you wanted!! as for me I'll wait till the Lionel GG1's are cataloged and order the three I want.  With all the bells and whistles I've come to expect from them!!!

Enjoy!

I have an MPC era Lionel GG1 (4935) in Brunswick green.  Then I got an MTH PS2 GG1 in Tuscan.  It has great detail, steam blowoff and runs great.  Then I got a PS1 GG1 in Tuscan.  I upgraded it to PS2 and, except for the detail and steam blowoff, it works great.

I'm a sucker for GG1's but the VL GG1 is going have to be pretty special beyond some flashing LEDs on the pantograph.  Maybe a good sound file.  The horn and bell have been good but another sound are just noise not the sounds that a GG1 made.  I have a VL BigBoy and love the detail and sounds.

We'll have to wait and if I have a VL GG1.

Landsteiner posted:

I'm sure when it's catalogued, we'll have some long winded and preachy stuff about how it's overpriced, unnecessary or less good a deal than locomotive X or Y.  And when it's produced we'll hear both positive and negative comments, with most of the negative comments coming from those who don't own one.   That's the nature of the hobby and the internet I guess.  I'm glad we haven't gone there yet.

Oh yeah, bank on it!  

As I said I another one of these GG-1 threads, many of the peeps who constantly post on the forum,  "...not me, not me..."  will be first in line to buy.  

I have a total of 15 GG-1's ( I know why so many ) some MTH scale some not scale, some Lionel post war some newer, some K Line and even a Williams . I am gong to add the Lionel VL to my collection. My uncle was an engineer on the  Pennsylvania, driving GG-1s back in the 50's. I also lived less then a mile from Sunnyside yards and spent many days there falling in love with them up close. Now I want the best, and I know Lionel will have the best looking and the best sound. I waited for Lionel to make the VL GG-1 and if I have to adjust my train budget for one I will. I can't wait!

David,

Where did you find this beauty?

SD40-2 posted:

...

Where did you find this beauty?

A small LHS in Cedar Grove, NJ.  The place is Tony's Train Town.

I started my search using the MTH product locator to see which GG-1's have been produced over the years.  I was pretty certain MTH had done a bicentennial themed GG-1 at one point, but had forgotten the specifics.  So when I saw the style I was hoping to find, I clicked on it for more details.  The product locator was showing no MTH dealers having stock, but I've come to realize that many smaller shops (and even some of the larger ones) don't really use/maintain/update the MTH product locator database.   Some shops are very religious about it, and others don't want to go near computers at all.  

Next step was to search for "MTH 20-5515" and "MTH 5515" using Google.  Not many useful hits, but Tony's Train Town came up when I searched, so I called them to verify stock.  Sounded like the store manages inventory manually, and the friendly fellow said he'd call back after checking stock.  About 15 minutes later, he called with the good news that they did indeed have one still MINT in the MTH shipping carton, which they double-boxed and shipped out the same afternoon!  By the next day, UPS had the package on my front doorstep.  

David

David,

Very nice addition!  I hope you enjoy it!

Best,

Michael

Big Chet posted:

Last year, I got a Weaver brass GG-1 for a bargain because it was missing the pantographs. Just to see if they fit, I bought a couple of them from Williams parts and they fit perfectly. Also had it upgraded to TMCC and sound. It's one of the smoothest running engines I have. It has a creep speed that's the best. Now I just have to figure out how to make the pantographs spark.

 

Similarly, I bought a scale Williams bare shell and the pants from my MTH fit it perfectly.  Hopefully an entire Williams engine comes along some day.

The PS1 MTH will be receiving new ERR guts as soon as my Hennings order arrives.  I'll try to keep the sparking to a minimum during the conversion.

BTW, David.  If you want that dull old Bi-centennial scheme brightened up, I have the solution.

Bruce

Nick12DMC posted:

...

I have a Williams scale GG1 I picked up for $120 then upgraded with ERR cruise & sound. Super smooth runner.

...

Nick,  I recall at York several years ago where Trainworld was having a blow-out of Williams scale GG-1's.  I wasn't really into the GG-1's all that much at the time, so I didn't take advantage of it.  But I remember a couple of folks here grabbed a BUNCH of them for pretty close to the price you paid... perhaps $149 at most, IIRC.  I'm sure more than a few of those units made good candidates for upgrading to command control on a friendly budget.

David

Landsteiner posted:

It's key to know what makes you happy. If saving money is what does it, that makes sense.  I'd offer a guess that most people in the market for a top of line, premium priced Lionel Legacy equipped GG1 in Vision Line would not want or be in the market for a PS2 equipped MTH premier GG1.  ...

What makes you think it's purely about "saving money"?  Not that there's anything wrong with that in and of itself.  But the real point here goes much further:  namely, it's about getting the most product for our dollar (i.e., price/performance).  This thread was really all about highlighting an alternative purchase.  Right from the get-go, I mentioned Lionel's VisionLine GG-1 with rivets should provide much more "detail" than this older MTH Premier GG-1.  Over on the other GG-1 thread, I also mentioned Steve Nelson (aka Mr. Muffins Trains) has 3 or 4 wonderful MTH Premier GG-1 models with Protosounds3 at super attractive prices as well.  Those have newer electronics and also the steam-blast on start-up.  But at $500-$550 today, those are practically HALF the price of Lionel's JLC GG-1's $899 MSRP circa 2008-ish.  And most of those JLC's (except the Black-Jack Penn Central) can be snagged NEW and Like-New for $450-$600 these days.  Earlier in 2015, I purchased one of those JLC GG-1's from a dealer  as new old stock for $450.  So that's not even a secondary market sale at that price-point.

Landsteiner posted:

...

I was perhaps hoping to pre-empt comments suggesting that other people's assessment of value, and their perception of the relative attraction of the product are irrational or clueless, as sometimes occur on this forum. These comments say more about the individual making the comment than the subject of the comment in my view. An inability to see that other people have different needs and values than one's self is very unattractive.

...

I think it is premature to pass judgment on the Vision Line GG1 when it hasn't even been catalogued yet, much less produced.  I'm sure when it's catalogued, we'll have some long winded and preachy stuff about how it's overpriced, unnecessary or less good a deal than locomotive X or Y.  And when it's produced we'll hear both positive and negative comments, with most of the negative comments coming from those who don't own one.   That's the nature of the hobby and the internet I guess.  I'm glad we haven't gone there yet.

Interesting that you would introduce this notion, when nothing of the sort has been discussed in this thread.  If you feel the burning desire to defend a particular product, that's fine.  But nobody here is casting judgements on anything or anyone.  On the contrary, this thread has been moving along with much pleasantry and enjoyment.  So please don't read words into something that hasn't been stated.   

We're simply pointing out that very nice scale GG-1's are currently available in the market at very attractive price-points.  We don't know what Lionel's price will be for their new VisionLine GG-1's.  They know, but they're not telling us yet.  So until we know, folks are just speculating on anticipated price-points -- largely using the former JLC GG-1 price of $899 MSRP as a starting point... then adding in extra $$$ for time (since it's been 7-8 years since those JLC GG-1's hit the street).  And of course, the new GG-1 being a part of Lionel's VisionLine family of products will be worth a few extra pennies too.    Whatever the price will be... if folks want to spend top dollar for it, that's their business.  I've just reached a point in the hobby where I'm spending $$$ with an eye toward maximizing price/performance.  And the only way I know how to do that is by comparing newly announced/delivered products with products already on the market.  If you don't like the comparisons (or the way the math works out), don't shoot the messenger.  The math doesn't lie.

The number of offerings at the 4-figure price-point is becoming increasingly commonplace today for our hobby.  So if I'm considering three GG-1's (which I'm not in the market for anyway), they probably wouldn't be VisionLine models unless Lionel really surprises us and brings these new jewels in at the JLC GG-1 MSRP (with dealers offering their usual pre-order discounts).  But whatever the price is for the new VisionLine GG-1's, it doesn't negate the fact that the going market rate for some darn fine-quality GG-1's by both Lionel and MTH can be had for roughly HALF of the former JLC model prices.  That's the real competition Lionel will be looking at when they announce pricing for their new VisionLine GG-1's.  They'll need some pretty fabulous eye- and ear-popping features to justify the price-point most folks are expecting.

David 

I was one of those guys who bought a Williams GG1 for cheap a couple of years back. Now I just have to find/pay a forum member to upgrade it to TMCC/ERR 

Hey folks, the big brown truck arrived today with a nice little MTH goodie from JusTrains of Delaware.  Turns out MTH is now shipping its Conrail GP38 #7776 done up in the Bicentennial paint scheme, and the thought had crossed my mind to include this somehow in my colorful, "Spirit of '76" train currently consisting of a Conrail GG-1 and Amtrak Zephyr  passenger cars.  This wasn't part of the initial plan when I started this thread a couple of months ago.  But the more I thought about it, the more it seemed to make sense to add some extra motive power up front, given the growing length of this train!    And until MTH comes along with another GG-1 done up in "Spirit of '76 / Bicentennial" colors, this GP38 should contribute to the double-header just fine.

First up, here are a few iPhone6+ close-ups of CR #7776 in Bicentennial colors:

And now, here's CR #7776 taking its rightful place behind CR #4800 double-heading (courtesy of DCS) a potentially very long passenger train consisting of head-end refrigerator cars and 11 or 12 Amtrak Zephyr passenger cars.

For the head-end cars, I decided to use a couple of Lionel's 57' Mechanical Refrigerator Cars done up in Amtrak livery.  SideTrack Hobbies had these hefty-looking cars at a price that was too good to pass up, and they arrived in the same delivery today as the GP38.  Lionel also made Amtrak "express cars" based on their Milk Car tooling (with the same Amtrak ExpressTrak graphics), but I thought the length and heftiness of the 57' Mechanical Reefers would be more appropriate for a train with 21" passenger cars. 

I think the Mechanical Reefers will blend in nicely with the Atlas-O Amtrak Zephyr  passenger cars.  The Lionel rolling stock tends to have a slightly higher ride height than Atlas-O's passenger cars, but I don't think it's a show-stopper.

As I mentioned earlier, this train will likely contain Mechanical Reefers followed by 11-12 Amtrak Zephyr passenger cars.  So the double-header motive power will come in very handy.  Heck, I like this GP38 add-on enough that I may get yet another one to make a Conrail "triple-header" for this train, so none of these gems breaks a sweat hauling passengers en route!!! 

nice pic, thanks for posting a pic of the centennial GG-1, I ordered the vision line one, Now I have an Ideal of what to expect.

turbine posted:

nice pic, thanks for posting a pic of the centennial GG-1, I ordered the vision line one, Now I have an Ideal of what to expect.T

The VisionLine model in Bicentennial livery will have the added rivet detail too, which should make it a stunning model!  Enjoy!!!

David

David

Nice collection of the Red, White, and Blue!