Realtrax Switch & Accessories with z750 or z500 DCSRC

Well got most of these answered today, baptism by fire  Switches and track being powered by lock-on in a normal configuration, needing about 1/2 to 2/3 throttle on the z750 to throw the switches smoothly & quickly, and practially have the Williams F7 'flying' off the track to throw the switches while the train is running.  Didn't setup the shared loop yet, but doesn't seem the siding needs a seperate lock-on at least.

 

However, I've got some new questions....these older (possibly not NOS, but gently used) solid rail switches are a little 'buzzy' when activating, even when they get plenty of juice to throw quickly.  Is this normal or is there something I can do to lube the action?

 

After some searching it seems I'll be best off with a dedicated accessory power source for the switches and a couple lighted accessories.  Is it possible to use a spare DCS Remote Commander (the smaller 50w brick type w/handheld remote & w/o display...from the starter sets) to power accessories?  Any chance it puts out enough static power at rest or initial hook up to throw the switches?

 

Not sure how these will or won't work if I used the mini DCSRC in place of the z750 (trying to run the train and throw switches with the 50w setup).  I'd use the z750 as a dedicated accessory power source, but as far as I know the mini DCSRC from the starte set won't run the conventional F7, just my PS3 engines??

Thanks,

Robert

 

 

 

 

The Z500 should work great for accessories and switches. I used mine for my realtrax siding before I got a ZW and it worked great. 

Hi Liam,

Thanks for the reply!  This is the version I have that comes with the starter set (the remote, the mini-interface/receiver and a 50W brick)

Is this the same setup you used, or did you use the one with the console or manual throttle?

 

I was hoping there might be a way to use the receiver and the 50w brick it comes with to power the accessories without having to use the remote, but wasn't sure it would put out enough power without using the throttle button on the remote.

Thanks again,

Robert

You can use it just use the power coming out of the red and black terminals. This will work without the remote.

Many thanks for the follow up reply Liam!  Sorry if I asked the same question twice...you probably knew which model I was referring to.  It clicked for me after reading your response and messing around with my SD70 a bit today that the lighted caboose stays fully lit when the DCSRC (with z500 brick) first gets plugged in, and also stays fully lit after engine 'shut down'.  I have a lighted, operating accessory arriving later this week, so I'll be running it and the switches off my spare mini DCSRC setup as a dedicated accessory power source...figure I'll just forego the track lock on from it and I can always cover the receiver lens with a bottle cap or somesuch so I don't angst over it reacting to the remote I use to run the trains.  Thanks again for your help!

 

Now if I can figure out a way to make what I guess are the solenoids in the switches a little quieter it'll all be groovy...unless that's the nature of these switches.  Although one definitely seems quieter than the other, so I'm hoping there might be some way to lubricate the solenoid or armature on the switches to quiet them down.  Just dawned on me that maybe its the red/green lense on the switch that is actually rattling or buzzing...hmm.

Robert

Well, one possibility (the buzzing) may be that that you're running these off of track power. That's only a guess and would probably only happen when they're getting the higher voltage needed to run a train.

 

Which leads me right into a suggestion:  It's usually better to run switches from an auxiliary power source. Will give you smoother and "snappier" action and eliminates any issues using variable voltage going to the track.

 

I had MTH RealTrax switches on an older layout years ago and always had them wired from auxiliary.

Those are Solenoid type switches. They will buzz at moderate to max power, no worries.

As to the running of the switches, I would recommend popping for a Z-1000 brick.

It's not terribly costly and has a 14VAC aux power port.

The 14VAC aux port is perfect for running those switches. I am running 12 RealTrax switches from one of mine.

Remember this though, The wattage for the switches is subtracted from the wattage for the trains. However, The Lights are on constantly but the actual switching (More Power) is only a momentary drain.

 

Running the switches on the 50W DCSRC power will make them work regardless of track power for the train but is actually more voltage than is optimal for them.

Thanks for the tips John and Russell!  Yes I was initially running them off track power with a z750 controller, and as Russell mentioned it did cause a momentary power drain if I tried to throw the switch while the Williams F7 was running (even at fairly high throttle setting).  Interestingly the Williams engine's light did flash and speed would drop for a split second.  I think the light flash happened even when the train was in neutral.  It does seem the auxiliary source is the best way to go.

 

I'm trying to bide my time & money until I can swing a full DCS rig, so running my couple PS3's with the DCSRC, and the z750 for the Williams.  I was hoping to use a spare DCSRC with 50w brick only as a temporary aux power feed as Liam suggested, but Russell's mention of the switches potentially seeing more voltage than they need has me thinking I should at least do some testing.

 

I imagine I should check the voltage output of the mini DCSRC receiver itself to see what I get.  The 50w brick that comes with the RTR setups says AC output is 18v.  I wonder if that's what I'll see coming out of the mini DCS receiver (max voltage).  I read up here and in the manual that these realtrax switches need minimum 10v to operate smoothly.  So I also wonder what the max is...the manual doesn't mention it.  If Russell's aux output is 14v is 18v way too risky?

 

I guess another thing I could check is voltage on the track near the switches when the z750 is turned up to 1/2-2/3 (minimum throttle where the switches seemed to work best).  Wish the z750 had a voltage output rating on the control dial, even for approximation.

 

These are apparently fairly early versions of the realtrax switch, because I saw a typo using the "Ritetrax" name further on in the manual.  I really like that early solid rail track...it seems to be really well made.  A shame MTH got away from it.

Robert

If I understand what you're saying, you are using a spare DCSRC receiver to simply supply power to the switches.  The exact voltage going into the DCSRC receiver from your brick via that coaxial barrel connector comes out the back side of the DCSRC receiver at the red/black banana jacks.  So if the receiver is powered by the 18VAC brick, then that's what is going to your switches.  While there's no harm in covering the lens on the receiver, if the red banana power wire is only power the switches (and not going to the center rail) then it will not interfere with the DCSRC operation of the main receiver that controls your PS3 engines.

 

Alternatively, for a few bucks you can buy a coaxial barrel connector (like the one on the front of the receiver in your photo) and simply break out the two power wires from your brick to power the switches.  Again, this is because those two power wires effectively run straight to the back of the receiver.

 

In my experience 18VAC will definitively toggle Realtrax switches.  I assume you only hear the buzzing when switching.  If you hear the buzzing after you release the switch control lever it means the switch got hung up and did not fully throw.  You might want to simply unscrew the bottom plate from the switch and see what's inside.  It comes apart very easily and you'll see the solenoid, some levers, some simply contact connections, plastic gear to rotate the lens.  As you know you can manually and slowly rotate the red/green lens to throw the switch and see/feel if something is sticking or whatever.

 

If you're planning your railroad empire and don't want to spring (yet) for another transformer to power your switches, consider spending a dollar or so for some diodes to drop 18VAC to, say, 14VAC or whatever.

OK, You plan on DCS, so you are going to need some bricks to feed it anyway.

I use a pair of Z-1000 bricks, and I have plenty of power for my Big Boy to belch smoke and pull 58 cars (nearly the entire loop full) with power to spare.

 

While I am a MTH supporter, I must be up front on one thing. The Lionel 180 Watt bricks are capable of providing the full 10 Amps at 18VAC the DCS system can run per channel. You will also need the TMCC TPC Cable Set (available separately, 6-14194) to connect it to your TIU. The plug only mates the Lionel Transformer.

 

The MTH Z-1000 brick is only able to push 5.55 Amps at 18VAC (100 watts).

That is a serious drop from 10 amps.

If you run long passenger consists you may find this capacity too low.

The Lionel brick does not have a 14VAC aux output for feeding anything else though.

 

Now, if you look at the long range plan,

Using a Pair of 180W Power House bricks feeding the DCS TIU, and use your existing transformer set to around 14VAC for your switches, you will have Max power for minimum dollars.

 

Running your existing transformer through some diode pairs to drop a few volts to the switches is a inexpensive way to get by for now. See DaleH's website for examples with pictures on how to drop volts with Diodes. Be sure to get diodes rated for the wattage.

 

You might also want to look into a TMCC board for your engine once you get DCS.

with a TMCC base and a cable from the TIU into it, you can then command all TMCC and PS2/3 engines with the one remote.

I will admit, I got an entire TMCC system w CAB1 because the TMCC crane is so cool and running it with the DCS remote is tricky.  If you have both systems you really don't need the cable, just use both remotes.

All that said, A Legacy system is probably inevitable eventually.

No one company makes everything we want. And it's best to get all the tricks your engine has out on the layout.

Thanks for the replies Stan and Russell!  I can use all the tips and advice I can get, especially since my researching has been limited a bit lately by a changing work schedule.

 

EDIT: Yes the only buzzing with the switches was while operating if I failed to confirm Stan's assumption before. I'll plan on lubing the gears inside the swithces if that's possible.

 

 

You pretty well summed up my plan for now Stan, and it sounds like the diode idea for reducing volatage that you and Russell mention might be the least costly way to go for now to ensure correct accessory power output plus funtionality without over commiting or spending alot in additional equipment.  I like Russells thoughts for long range plans, but do want to stay a bit conservative to start at least as I refine my modest 4'x8' layout plans.  That's also why I am thrilled to get to mess around with command & control via the DCS lite system.  I am a new but already a big fan of MTH trains, and their less expensive Railking PS3 engines have seemd like the best bang for the buck getting started.  Like Russell mentioned, one brand may not meet all my eventual needs or wants, but sticking with MTH and trying to make the most of equipment onhand for now seems to make the most sense.  Full Legacy, Legacy type engines and higher end level equipment in MTH as well, may be some time off but I do want to plan ahead as much as possible.

Thanks again,

Robert

So I thought I would edit the title of this thread slightly and ask about operating a lighted and powered accessory with the DCSRC z500 setup.

 

I’ve got an MTH Esso station with lights, car movement and sounds.  Looking at the Esso station instructions it says it can be run with a 14-20v power supply.  The DCSRC gives a constant 18v & 54 watts according to the brick and if I’m understanding things correctly…that means an amperage of ~3a (54w=18v x 3a).  I hooked the station directly to 18v DCSRC mini receiver and it ran fine.  There was a little erratic flickering with the one light in the store portion of the station only, but think it might just be a loose bulb, corrosion or wire given that was the only light on the station that reacted when operating.

 

So here’s where some of the new questions begin…

What do you think the chances that 3 amps are too much or too little of a feed for this station?  The instructions don’t seem to specify amperage over the acceptable 14-20v range.

 

I noticed that the instructions for the o31 switch state a “minimum” 10v @ 1.25amps, but still have not found a maximum.  Would it be worth the time to test placing an inline fuse before the switches at some comparable amperage (e.g. 1.5 – 1.75a) and using the switches directly off the DCSRC z500 or would I easily blow that fuse every time with the delivery of 18v @ 3a?

 

I’m not opposed to going the voltage reduction route with the use of diodes, but just thought I would ask about these specs as I’m not real well versed in electricity…just enough to be dangerous…and want to experiment with running and operating a few switches & accessories as simply as possible.

Thanks again for any advice,

Robert

PS I guess this is starting to resemble something I should have posted in the electrical or wiring section...but it does figure into my immediate test layout and running plans.