Reasonable Expectations for Buying Used?

@Mark Holmgren 110217 posted:

I recently bought a used train set from one of the major online sellers.  The set was graded C-7 - Excellent.  When I received the set, it was in excellent cosmetic condition, but the locomotive simply didn't work.  It smoked and lit up, but it simply would not move.  It had the "Mighty Sound of Steam," but the sound was just constant static.

Is the commonly used grading system simply aesthetic?  When I contact the seller, they told me they had not even tested the locomotive.  I returned it for a refund with zero problems whatsoever, so no harm no foul.

But I wanted to ask what I should reasonably expect when buying used.  Is the grading system purely about aesthetics?  If the listing does not explicitly say a locomotive has been tested and works, should I just assume it does not work?  And if an MPC locomotive won't move, how much should I have expected to spend in parts to get it going again?  This one hummed, so the motor was getting power.  Would that have been the E-unit?

Thanks for your help!

There are two ratings, one in looks and one is mechanical. If you bought this and it does not work, send it back.

As long as there's a guarantee/ refund , at least your risk is low.

There are to many variables to be able to assure any used item is trouble free, thus the refund option.

What I try to watch for on the secondary market is vendors that typically sell other items like clothes or glassware etc. Then they happen to pickup a train at an estate sale.

Often times these trains are described as "new" even though obvious wear can be seen on the wheels and pickup rollers. These vendors simply don't know anything about model trains , and it looks "new" to them.

There seems to be more and more of this type of seller on ebay these days, as folks pass and items go up for auction.

If you’re going to buy used, you have to expect some level of problems, especially if the product is vintage, or in a lot of cases in this hobby, antique. This is especially true if the product you’re intending to buy is untested. God knows how long it has sat. If you don’t have any mechanical skills, or are unwilling to open up model trains to work on them, then, my suggestion would be to find a seller you can work with and express what you want before you make a purchase. Some sellers I know have repeat customers for decades over decades. Developing a relationship like that with your seller can ensure the product works before it makes it to your door. Otherwise, it’s pot luck for purchasing vintage model trains.

Pat

I have a reasonably good idea as to which “major on line seller” you purchased this set from. These folks use a C-7 grading on a substantial number of their listings yet (from my experience, at least) could not possibly have inspected the item before grading it in that manner.

I have had to return a number of items that were obviously graded incorrectly. As the previous poster noted, if it doesn’t work, contact the seller and get a return authorization. If who you bought this from who I think it is, their customer service does a very good job of trying to make it right for you.

Curt

TCA Standards

I agree with all the recommendations and comments above.  I am pretty sure who you are talking about, and agree their customer service is top notch and have discussed that with the owner on the 3 occasions I have seen him at major train shows.  I have also bought MANY items from them.

Now my "take" which some may or may not agree with.  I may not have a long history in this hobby, but have bought A LOT in the last 3 years with about 90% online.

BTW I buy items made from about 1980-2010, so these comments don't apply to post-war and especially not pre-war.

Most of my early purchases were on that Auction Site, but eventually shifted more to Trainz.  Partly that was because as my collection "filled" I actually found when looking for specific items, they were "usually" more likely to have it (at a reasonable price).  In both cases though your purchases are "guaranteed" (which I believe is very important).  I actually expect some problems, but try to minimize them, but looking carefully at all pictures and the description.  One thing if a picture of the bottom is not shown I ALWAYS ask for one (locos in particular).  Because of the current supply and demand situation, if you are patient you can eventually find the item in New or Near New Condition (C-7 or higher).  That's all I buy. I have been a car guy for over 50 years and the old saying is when buying classic cars find the best one you can afford, it is cheaper in the long run.  With this hobby that means new or nearly new to me.

Now here is where I am going to probably get some "blow-back".  I have the skills to do repairs, if others don't then my recommendation is you should NOT buy used.  An item like yours (30+ years old) even if in new condition needs to be serviced.  Using your case I would NOT have sent the item back based on your description.  I would have opened it up and figured out what was wrong with it, and if unsure asked for help here on the Forum.  Than I would have contacted Customer Service and asked for an adjustment.  (Based on price of parts, my labor is free, that is part of the hobby to me).  I have only had to return 3 items to Trainz, twice because they literally shipped the wrong item, once because on a very expensive item "we couldn't agree on a fair price".

This is just my opinion.

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

TCA Standards

This is just one of the benefits that TCA provides to the hobby.  Members pay to support it.  Be a member!

The "C-n" standards are based only on appearance, and the standards are explicit about this.

@Mark Holmgren 110217 Mark, Lots of good advice in this topic for you. Most of the replies here are for post-war purchases. Most of my purchases are pre-war. So, this is my spin on all of this and most of my locomotives are now around 85 years old (prewar is 1939 to 1942)...if this helps to give you a slightly different prospective. If I had an old comedian here to sum things up about prewar...(like the late, great Rodney Dangerfield) he might say, "So, you think you have problems..."

I buy from the most common auction site and like most here, I think I know who you are referring to for your seller. I generally have zero problems with both places and the big auction site represents maybe 95% of my locomotives.

Having said that, I don't rely on TCA grading standards. Some or most will not agree with that, but that's just me. When purchasing my prewar locomotives I can usually tell how the locomotive has been handled by most of the pictures that are provided online. If the pictures do not give me good views or I don't like how the item is described, I will pass. I do take into account that my locomotives are in the 85 year old range.

Seven or eight years ago, I stumbled a  loco that I took a chance on. I had a pretty good idea what I was getting into. This was the saddest, most beaten up  "basket-case switchers" which needed extensive repairs, including wiring, several parts, body work (the cab) and painting. I shipped the loco to Hennings for the wiring and I did the rest with a friend, using Jeff Kane, the Train Tender, for parts...I recommend both of them highly. Here is the link for that basket case getting restored if it helps see something going from the worst possible case.

https://ogrforum.com/...team-switcher?page=1

I see that some sellers on the big auction site sometimes do not say the locomotive has been tested...OK, I take that into account. If I still like the looks of the locomotive, I may buy it and be prepared to clean it. Most of my locos that do not originally run can be brought back to life with a thorough cleaning. If the locomotive has been tested and the locomotive runs, that is like gravy to me. Again, that's just me. Some of my online sellers, I've bought from before, so I get a better feeling of who I an dealing with and if I can trust them.

I will mention that one of the best running prewar Lionel steam switchers that I ever bought was from Trainz. I would imagine they may have had to rewire and thoroughly clean that locomotive to have it run so well.

Things to remember...whether these locomotives are 30 years old or 85 years old or somewhere in-between, sending them through the mail/UPS/FedEx to you is not going to improve how they run. If you had fragile wiring before, you may end up with a wire or wiring that can get loose in shipment.

You asked these questions:

• If the listing does not explicitly say a locomotive has been tested and works, should I just assume it does not work? My answer...I would assume it does not work...but a good cleaning may be the solution.
• And if an MPC locomotive won't move, how much should I have expected to spend in parts to get it going again? My answer...this is something you need to decide. A general rule of thumb I try to stick to is roughly in the $100-200 range. It all depends what your budget is.
• This one hummed, so the motor was getting power.  Would that have been the E-unit? My answer...this is generally a good sign! You may be just a cleaning away from bringing it back to life.

If you don't have a good cleaning/repair manual for Lionel trains, you may want to invest in one and keep it handy.

So, the age old slogan applies here, too, Caveat Emptor, "Buyer beware!"

Tom

For me I don't buy an item lower than a C-8 (really for the cosmetics).  However, some platforms like eBay don't grade, so I just have to go by the description.  Unless the seller actually says it is 100% functional/tested, I never assume it is and I usually message them to verify.  A lot of sellers quickly look over a piece and can miss things (missing/broken details, crazed paint finish, etc.).  A lot have no way to test the older stuff or even know how.

So best you can do is inquire first.  Just make sure there is a refund policy in place.

I have also been pleasantly surprised by items that were marked as used and turned out to be factory new.

It's a roll of the dice!  But never assume.  It's like a train show online.

Most of my collection was purchased used. Ebay in the beginning and then I migrated to Trainz and the Forum.
I've had a couple lemons from Trainz and they've either repaired them, offered a discount, or accepted a return/refund. I've found that a lot of Trainz used stuff is new in the box, never opened too.
I'm in the "I like fixing stuff" camp so even if a loco arrives with problems I don't mind fixing them. I have a recent purchase from Trainz that came with a balky electronic e-unit. They gave me a discount and I'm keeping the engine and upgrading it with a Lionchief + board.
I like to see that an engine was tested and works in the listing, and rely on good photos, especially of the undercarriage, when deciding on a purchase.

Considering all the QC issues with new stuff these days, the second hand market ain't so bad......

YMMV........Bob

I assume there will be something wrong with whatever I buy used, and set the price I am willing to pay accordingly.  Sometimes I get surprised.  More often I get something in better condition than I was expecting.  What I do expect, demand even, is that any representation the seller makes be literally true, and be just as true when I receive it as it supposedly was when the seller listed it.

A couple of thoughts concerning the use of TCA grading standards.

First, the operational standards are likely the most underused standard that exists. Take a quick look at a recent TCA Headquarters News Interchange Section and see how many members are listing MPC through modern era items with an operational standard shown. It is apparent that, even within TCA membership, use of operational standards is practically non-existent, with folks using condition grades as a catch all.

Second; while condition standards should be understood to apply to condition only, these standards also cover missing parts. If a caboose is missing wiring and pickup rollers or an engine is missing all of the electronics, the item should not have received a C-7 rating. If a seller is going to use TCA standards in their listings, it is incumbent upon them to inspect the item and properly apply these standards.

Now, I wholeheartedly agree with the posters who note that when buying used, you should expect that, at minimum, a cleaning and servicing of the item may be necessary. That said, unless the item is listed as a “parts source” or “not operating”, the buyer should have a reasonable expectation that it functions, especially if the seller is a TCA member.

Curt

TCA standards hold zero weight, especially when it comes to on line shopping, and non-TCA events. I’m not even sure the TCA enforces their own grading policy. I do see some sellers at TCA events adhere to the grading guidelines, and often see the “restored tinplate” sticker on some models. Outside of the TCA, grading is only on the honor system, and naturally, a seller is going to tout the product as excellent, Fortunately, the big name sellers on the internet ( at least most of them ) have a return/repair or refund policy. So a buyer can purchase with confidence they’re not gonna get stuck,……seems there’s a fair amount of folks that assume when buying something used, they understand they’re gonna have to take it apart, service it, and clean it to their own satisfaction. But, no harm no foul to those that either don’t want to, or are incapable of making repairs. This is where again, I’d suggest to those folks to make a relationship with seller(s) to be able to make a satisfying purchase, and avoid the guessing. Might not be able to have such a relationship with a big volume seller, as they more than likely don’t have the bandwidth to accommodate every purchase with a personal touch, but there are droves of sellers I’m sure would be willing to take personal requests, to test, clean, & service the product in a relationship made. Of course, this is going to add to the over all costs a buyer pays for a product, but it’s either that or the possibility of an endless revolving door of purchase/return/repeat. You can not expect untested vintage product to perform like new when it’s aged.

Pat

I think there are several things to consider when buying used. First off is who you are intending to buy from. If you have done business from them before, this could relieve or agitate you depending on your prior purchase(s) from them. Condition is the second thing as you can only assess so much via pictures let alone description. Third is price as the condition usually can determine if the price is reasonable or out of the range you want to spend.

With all those to consider, there is of course some things that definitely cause issues to buy. The main problems are lack of description, stock pictures, or even unclear photos.

I know those that I usually purchase from are extremely descriptive and tons of pictures. If there is notation of mars or scratches, I want to see where they are exactly and if whatever I intend for the purchase if it really matters. Granted that may not apply to most, but if there scratches on the wheels and your replacing them anyway, that is not that big of a deal(unless unreasonable price).

Some sellers do have videos of the item running so you can see it in operation. I know that I have looked and listened to these videos when considering an item, though I don't believe I have bought any from those sellers as yet.

One other thing to consider is talking with the seller as well. How receptive they are to your inquiries will depend on what you do as well. I had messaged a seller some time ago about the pricing on a K-Line Hudson which I thought was too high. I offered a reasonable price, the seller only went down about $20 of his price. After I said no, the seller relisted his price on his Hudson a week later an additional $100 if I recall correctly. The item sat for months being overpriced and I didn't follow it after that.

I buy a lot of used stuff, and I do have to fix some of it.  However, I buy on appearance, as I can make the internals right.  Obviously, I also limit my purchase price with a build-in expectation that I'll have to fix some stuff.

It's also important to know exactly what you're buying and what vintage it is.  Specifically, early Legacy with the modular boards no longer are supported, and all the electronics for those has been removed from the Lionel Parts site.  Since there's no functional replacement or "work-around" for much that can go wrong with that vintage Legacy, I avoid those.   A similar situation exists for TMCC, but there are many work-arounds and also lots more parts on the secondary market.

There have been many great points made here and I follow a lot of the guidelines others have stated when I purchase used trains. A general guideline I suggest following is anything that is older than 15 years, expect it to need some level of service. At the very list, you will need to oil the bearings, replace gearbox grease, and probably new traction tires. These are basic maintenance procedures that every hobbyist should learn for their own sake. If these are tasks you aren’t comfortable doing yourself or have no desire to learn, time to find a repair technician and budget the cost accordingly.

When it come to buying anything prewar, postwar, MPC, or LTI era models, expect that it will need a significant overhaul, especially if the model has a Pullmor motor. These models are now 30-40 years old or more. Even mint in box MPC and LTI will need extensive service before it will run properly. Oils are long gone, grease has turned to paste, and conductive surfaces (pickup rollers, copper flat springs, motor commutators, E-unit drums/fingers) have oxidized. If you pull a mint engine made in the 80s out and run it, it may or may not operate and if it does, it will run poorly. Anything from these era’s, you should assume it will need an overhaul unless the seller explicitly states that it runs. Something I’ve noticed lately is some sellers are starting to include videos of the item operating.

Also, don’t trust the seller’s grading of the item unless you know their reputation. Most sellers do not know how to properly grade an item. Some over grade and others under grade to manage expectations. Always review the photos and make your own determination.
One nugget of wisdom I will share when it comes to assessing whether an item will be operational is look for signs that it was operated recently. Wear on the wheels, oily residue, not very dusty. If it looks to have belonged to an operator, it is probably in working order (or mostly). Don’t put your faith in mint in box items. If operation is important to you, these items are high risk. At the very least, they’ll need servicing. At worst, they may have bad electronics or even zinc pest. You are buying a mystery. Seller’s also don’t like to test mint items because there is a belief it will affect the price they can get. Secondly, if they test it and something doesn’t work, they no longer have deniability (“It’s mint, how was I supposed to know the electronics were bad? Must’ve been a factory defect.”) When buying modern era stuff, I prefer to get something that has been used but taken care of. As others have stated, TMCC and Legacy models may not be repairable due to lack of parts. Older postwar and MPC models can always be made to run because everything is serviceable and parts continue to be available so take that into consideration as well.

Thank you for all of the great feedback.  I have basically zero experience working on trains.   Are there any good guides available online you can recommend?  Or videos?

I just bought a brand-new never-opened 1623W Northern Pacific Postwar Celebration set.  I hope the electronics work.  This is my first Legacy locomotive.

Mark,

In addition to the great advice given here by so many forumites, you may also find the info here helpful: Tis Train Show Season! (warrenvillerailroad.com)

Mark,

I'm not sure if you can access these or whether you need a digital or other type of membership.

Here are 2 great OGR videos by the late, great Jim Barrett. I think these are very good for much of prewar and all postwar trains.

Loco Servicing

Safely Clean Your Trains

If you need to join OGR with a membership, access to great Jim Barrett and other OGR videos like this are worth it by itself.

You may also find other ones yourself on YouTube.

Tom

I guess that I'll chime in. I buy only used, and I have quit that, now (my inventory is...sufficient...). Though I cannot hold a candle to the really good 3RO modelers and fixers on this Forum (and this thread), I do (did) buy things that say "yeah - I'm a project you need".

But for a new guy to the hobby, keep it small, simple and "cheap" when you can, at first (or forever). They're just little model machines and not "investments". After doing your due diligence, I would recommend never buying anything that you can't afford to accidentally completely destroy, and then enjoy it.

Used is a great way to go. Lots of my collection is off of eBay. But I learned some lessons along the way. Make sure the satisfaction rating is above 99%. Look for evidence of any claims. For MTH it's great when they show the mileage and chrono readings. Avoid sellers that won't accept returns unless they have a price on an engine that you just can't pass up. Look out for phrases like "appears to have been run once and then displayed". That's a common eBay fib. I've had some engines that need attention here or there. Occasionally a car with bad couplers. But otherwise used is a great way to get stuff for less. If the previous owner has taken good care of the engine or car it will be obvious in the photos.

If you decide to buy used. You should do your research prior to buying it to give you reasonable expectations. Since the o.p. commented the locomotive had a "mighty sound of steam," yet was dissapointed by arrival of item, simple research would have shown the "Mighty Sound of Steam" was the cutting in and out of static noise sound. I woukd be interested if the o.p. would chime in to clarify did the sound of static gonin and out like a chuff or as ststed was constant sound of static [ like a turbine] and what did the locomotive look like?

Mark, the steam hissing sound from the “Mighty Sound of Steam” sounds a lot like static.  It might be normal, your engine has early sound technology.  Re the engine not moving, be sure it’s not locked in neutral.

John

Save yourself a lot of headaches and just follow some iron clad rules.

Unless the Seller has posted and 0-5 or 0-4 rating, or has stated in the description that it has been fully tested and runs "great" or "fine", then don't buy it.  Cosmetic condition has nothing whatsoever to do with operating condition.  I've been burned twice. 

Mannyrock

@Mannyrock posted:

Save yourself a lot of headaches and just follow some iron clad rules.

Unless the Seller has posted and 0-5 or 0-4 rating, or has stated in the description that it has been fully tested and runs "great" or "fine", then don't buy it.  Cosmetic condition has nothing whatsoever to do with operating condition.  I've been burned twice.

Mannyrock

Good luck following that. If you depend on the seller to list an O-x rating, your available product to search from will drop to a big fat ZERO. As Curt stated, the operation grading system TCA developed is the least used standard that exists.
But you have a point, you can’t get burned if you can’t even buy anything in the first place.

I believe the "on-line" seller you went through has people grading these things who are either woefully inexperienced or flat out blind in some cases. I have seen some items graded excellent but whose photos clearly show otherwise - and to an extremely obvious degree. I did call them out on an item i was interested in (didnt buy) and have had successful purchases from them also. But ultimately its up to them if they have a business model that could result in returned items and unhappy people. It is nice (and refreshing) however that they do have a return policy that is reasonable.

I have used eBay a few times with OK results.  Being able to return the purchase is a most.  Most items sold on eBay are obtained with active bidding meaning one "must have buyer" can drive the price too high.  Bidding against other buyers gives the seller a definite advantage.

Most of my purchases have been at small TCA train shows and are used 1950s.  I am not a seriously train buyer and do not go to York shows.  Buying in person allows one to really inspect the item and often affords the ability to test run the engine at many shows with buyers permission.  If the item does not appear to be fairly priced the buyer can make an offer at a lower price.  I also like to find items in poor condition at a low price, but repairable:   an example a gantry crane with a broken leg that can be glued back on.  The selection at a small train shows is very narrow and looking for an particular item is mostly not going to happen.  I have picked up 5 giraffe cars over a ten years time so patience is a must.  But then again, one can often see an item not on the buy list that has to be purchased.

Charlie

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I buy a lot of used stuff, and I do have to fix some of it.  However, I buy on appearance, as I can make the internals right.  Obviously, I also limit my purchase price with a build-in expectation that I'll have to fix some stuff.

It's also important to know exactly what you're buying and what vintage it is.  Specifically, early Legacy with the modular boards no longer are supported, and all the electronics for those has been removed from the Lionel Parts site.  Since there's no functional replacement or "work-around" for much that can go wrong with that vintage Legacy, I avoid those.   A similar situation exists for TMCC, but there are many work-arounds and also lots more parts on the secondary market.

John - what is the time frame for “early Legacy with modular boards”?

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

John - what is the time frame for “early Legacy with modular boards”?

From the initial Legacy versions, late in 2006, on to 2010.  Those engines all had the modular boards, R4LC-Sx, DCDS-J, RailSounds 5.5 and 6.0, etc.  None of those boards are still longer available on Lionel parts.  In the 2010-2011 timeframe, the production went to the RCMC and the RS-Lite boards that are still represented on the Lionel parts site.  The VL Hudson was in the 2010 Catalog and delivered in 2011, it's a good indication of when the changeover occurred.  The Vision Line Hudson was a hybrid affair, it has an RCMC but also the Railsounds 6.0 sound board.  In keeping with the parts purge, the VL Hudson sound board is no longer available, but the RCMC is still stocked.

Reasonable expectation would be for the seller to state upfront if the merchandise is not in operating condition or state if they have not the means or will to determine that fact. 

Ryan,

You are definitely correct that it is rare to see an O rating on a used item.  But it is very very common in my experience for the seller to state that he has tested it and it runs great or fine.  Either will work!  I have bought all of my locomotives online, except for one.

Mannyrock

Stating that it runs, you are correct. When I sell on Ebay, I am up front about whether an item operates and if anything doesn’t work or if I have recently serviced it. Many other sellers will do the same. The operational grading is something I often forget that it even exists and I’ve been collecting since the mid 90s lol.

One thing I would add is that it's easy to get sucked in to eBays user interface that takes you to 1000's of items with a tap and a swipe. This can make it seem like you're getting a good deal when you can get a new product with a little more effort by searching the inventories of the sellers at the top of the forum web page. I was just scrolling through the Pats inventory and was blown away by the MTH selection. When you combine the eBay price with shipping you can easily over-pay vs the equivalent new product.

We have used ebay and CFA quite a lot.  In 90+% of cases from ebay the items have arrived working.  However, I will always avoid engine listings with the disclaimer, "this item has not been tested", unless it is something I have wanted for years.  In those cases I will consider it.

I prefer the sellers who post videos of the engine running/reversing/etc, or pictures of the lighted car lit up.

But really, my rule of thumb is "unless the seller says they have tested that engine and it runs, I won't purchase it without communication from the seller that it does run."  In the rare event that the seller claims an engine runs but you receive a non-working engine, and if the seller doesn't accept returns, you can use that conversation to appeal to ebay for your money back.
As far as the one major ebay seller is concerned, I have queried their customer support before purchasing a car; they are always nice and courteous, and tend to get back to me within one business day.

In CFA's case they seemingly never test anything; everything is final sale & buyer-beware in terms of operational status.  If you contact them ahead of time, however, they will try and check things out for you or at least give you a picture of the underside.   About 1/3 of the engines we have purchased from them have needed maintenance.  Thankfully we live within driving distance of a Certified Lionel Service Station (or whatever they are called), and have spent quite a bit of money getting stuff fixed.  My dad is also a fair hand with a soldering iron and has fixed more than one item that arrived with a broken wire or cold solder joint.  A $100 Southern Trainmaster ended up closer to $300 after repairs of the worm gear and several other gears. Another engine cost a grand total of $5 worth of repairs--a bulb was burned out.

My reasonable expectation for a used item is either pictures or clear, honest communication about the status of that item.  If it doesn't run they should say that.  If they haven't tested it, they should state that. Also, be prepared to sink a little bit of money into potentially fixing it, if you care.

Most grading is cosmetic only.

I buy tons of used stuff and some times I have some work to do.

If the motor was buzzing, I would guess something binding. The buzzing could have been the e-unit. They buzz when under power.

I bought a used set of K-Line alcos a few years ago for a steal. Seller said they didn't run. Turns out a tiny piece of plastic got caught in the gears that had the truck bound up. Removed plastic and go to go. I bought a set of Weaver E8s from Trainz a couple of years ago that were graded highly and they stated tested. They would not run. One truck had a split helical/worm gear. Both were missing the body mount screws. I just recently acquired the parts to get these running. So you really never know what you are really in for until you have them in your possession. I accept that I am going to have to do some work when I buy used. For locos a mandatory test, clean and lube is always in order as soon as they arrive.

If you bought it from the large dealer in the southeast, that is par for the course for items purchased from them. They usually don't test and don't do much in the way of a visual inspection either. I have had lots of issues with stuff from them. Usually it is an easy fix, sometimes more involved.

My only recommendation would be when you buy trains at the TCA meet, why don't people test the engine on the test track before buying the engine in question! then you know for sure what the price is and know at least it worked when you tested it at YORK TCA meet twice a year, we seem to read to many horror stories when purchaser did not check their engine at York and then expect a refund!

would you buy a used car without first driving the car!

Alan

For me, I would not buy an MTH engine prior to protosound 2.0 with a 3.5 volt board.   You also need to try to research if the item you are interested in has been known to suffer from zinc pest.

There is an auction currently on Stout that comes with a warning that the items were from a very damp place.  Not flooded, but damp.  As usual they do not test any of the equipment and make no promises that it will function properly.  The boxes in the photos appear to show damage from dampness.  I would stay away from that too.

Other than that, I've purchased used items many of times.

@Mark Holmgren 110217 posted:

I recently bought a used train set from one of the major online sellers.  The set was graded C-7 - Excellent.  When I received the set, it was in excellent cosmetic condition, but the locomotive simply didn't work.  It smoked and lit up, but it simply would not move.  It had the "Mighty Sound of Steam," but the sound was just constant static.

Is the commonly used grading system simply aesthetic?  When I contact the seller, they told me they had not even tested the locomotive.  I returned it for a refund with zero problems whatsoever, so no harm no foul.

But I wanted to ask what I should reasonably expect when buying used.  Is the grading system purely about aesthetics?  If the listing does not explicitly say a locomotive has been tested and works, should I just assume it does not work?  And if an MPC locomotive won't move, how much should I have expected to spend in parts to get it going again?  This one hummed, so the motor was getting power.  Would that have been the E-unit?

Thanks for your help!

I buy used most of the time, I stay within RS 4 to 5.5 above the issues begin and below very little sound/control.

buy from well known sellers such as Trainz this way if an issue comes out they stand behind what they sell. They also test before they sell, also look for private sellers that are members of the TCA and other organizations and have good reputations.

I too have had excellent experience in buying used locos from Trainz.

Mannyrock