I’ve never been burned purchasing from forum members and TIU’s do occasionally show up for sale here, usually at very reasonable prices.  

Tom

Thanks, maybe that will work for me!

tiu's can usually be repaired except for certain types  of problems ! If you don't get shorts and voltage spikes from your ac power coming in the house they'll usually last many years ! you also realize you can get  UPS power supplies ahead of your transformer and tiu and helps keep your electronics in pristine shape with no voltage spike and especially derailments which cause spikes from  track short circuits ! Alan

P.S. a lot of time the tiu's can be repaired !

@Alan Mancus posted:

you also realize you can get  UPS power supplies ahead of your transformer and tiu and helps keep your electronics in pristine shape with no voltage spike and especially derailments which cause spikes from  track short circuits !

I don't see any way that a UPS helps prevent damage from derailments, it's on the other side of the world before the transformer and the TIU!  Nothing you do in terms of power conditioning is going to change what happens with derailments, shorts, or power spikes at the track.

The UPS will protect you from power spikes, typically during thunderstorms. It may also help if you have a household wiring issue. I have an older house so I have a UPS on all my expensive electronics. I use a large battery backup, where the battery is dead, so it only protects me from voltage spikes, which is my intended goal.

If you want protection between the transformer and the TIU or track, you will need to insert fuses or fast acting circuit breakers of some type.

Correct Joe, the UPS is protecting you from the nastiness coming in from the power line, not what's happening several layers after it's output.

Somebody will come up with something for protosounds 2/3 operation, I think it's too big of a market to ignore. I hope Atlas wants to do something with DCS. However, if it comes down to it, all protosounds locos can be controlled 'conventionally'.

Just to be clear, even if you use the wifi system you will still need a TIU.

The issue is having a TIU that functions with a remote. MTH 50-1003 TIU which functions with a remote is no longer being manufactured. The alternative option being offered is 50-1039 which as I understand it is a TIU that ONLY functions with Wifi and will not work with a remote. Please correct me know if I’m wrong because if 50-1039 works with a remote that would address my concerns!

@U. John Biffoni posted:

The issue is having a TIU that functions with a remote. MTH 50-1003 TIU which functions with a remote is no longer being manufactured. The alternative option being offered is 50-1039 which as I understand it is a TIU that ONLY functions with Wifi and will not work with a remote. Please correct me know if I’m wrong because if 50-1039 works with a remote that would address my concerns!

You are not wrong, they dropped support for the 900mhz remote and only run with smart devices.

Next step is for someone to design a DCS remote that communicates via wifi. I'm using my old iphone and the DCS app and its OK, but its not the perfect solution. For me it falls short from a railroad aura aspect. Somehow some of the magic is missing for me.  Sort of like using keyboard cursor keys to control speed instead of a ZW handle.

Dale

Nothing is so easy as the job you imagine someone else doing!

@Pennsylover posted:

Next step is for someone to design a DCS remote that communicates via wifi. I'm using my old iphone and the DCS app and its OK, but its not the perfect solution. For me it falls short from a railroad aura aspect. Somehow some of the magic is missing for me.  Sort of like using keyboard cursor keys to control speed instead of a ZW handle.

Dale

How about something like this:

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

You are not wrong, they dropped support for the 900mhz remote and only run with smart devices.

John, didn't someone from MTH announce that you can tether a remote to the new TIU? I know for you big layout guys, this doesn't work, but for us small layout types, who don't walk around the layout but just sit in in front of our control panel while operating, it could be a nice alternative to the tablet. I know I would use it.

I didn't see that, but then I have no interest in having a cord to my remote, so maybe I just overlooked it.

H1000,

I was wondering how long it would take someone else, other than me, to make the connection.  Here are two more, similar concepts.  I've been looking at these for the last couple of years but haven't gotten around to trying one of them yet:

1.) Motorola Moto Z Gamepad Mod -- Nice but only works with this one cell phone (Moto Z); been on the market for at least three or four years.  I found it because I have this phone.

2.) Skyreat Mavic Air Pro Foldable -- Designed for piloting drones, but may work for locomotives as well.

See: https://www.amazon.com/Skyreat...9EPYCHKYV7H17GQMG1QQ

Mike

I'd love to hear how that solves the issue of one-handed operation as you can do with the DCS remote.

H1000, as I mentioned, I'm using my old iphone and the DCS app and its OK, but its not the perfect solution.    It's great for a first release, but I think it would not be too hard to come up with some enhancements.  Thinking briefly, how about a slider that's attached to a steam locomotive throttle lever, and of course a different arrangement for diesels?  These are all images on the phone screen; not actual physical parts.

Dale

Yellow Hudson Mike, you might be on to something too! 

Dale

John's point is well taken.  These provide tactile feedback, allowing you to take your eyes off the handheld control device to watch what's going on.  Unfortunately however they're not one-handed solutions.

M.H.M.

@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:

John's point is well taken.  These provide tactile feedback, allowing you to take your eyes off the handheld control device to watch what's going on.  Unfortunately however they're not one-handed solutions.

M.H.M.

Well yes and no.  That video I shot above is rather old and I have since rearranged the buttons some more.  All of the basic functions one would need can be run from one side of the controller with one hand. (engine start up / shutdown ; Speed + / - ; Direction ; Bell ; horn / whistle ; toggle quilling whistle ; switch engine).

The other side of the controller is setup for secondary basic functions which on the DCS remote require the user operate with their second hand. The difference is that the other side of the APP controller is laid out and can be used without looking at the controller or screen with the other hand. I don't know about anyone else here but when I use any of the secondary functions available on the drop down screen of the APP with my DCS remote, it requires my second hand (for some functions) and my eyesight to do so.

I get the point about one handed operation, would have been nice if Lionel would have gotten that memo with the cab-2. I can only hold it with one hand and use the other to actually operate it. All the while I am looking at the CAB-2 to do any of the functions on it because in so many ways it's just like holding a bulky 8" tablet in one hand while using the other to manipulate controls on the device. By the time you grasp the device in your palm, my thumb hardly reaches any usable functions. One hand operates the device while the other hand merely holds it.

@H1000 posted:

Well yes and no.  That video I shot above is rather old and I have since rearranged the buttons some more.  All of the basic functions one would need can be run from one side of the controller with one hand. (engine start up / shutdown ; Speed + / - ; Direction ; Bell ; horn / whistle ; toggle quilling whistle ; switch engine).

Well, yes and now.  You still have that very unwieldy thing hanging out there, even if all the buttons are somewhat accessible.  I still don't see that as a one-handed operation.

@H1000 posted:

I get the point about one handed operation, would have been nice if Lionel would have gotten that memo with the cab-2. I can hold it with one hand and use the other to actually operate it. All the while I am looking at the CAB-2 to do any of the functions on it because in so many ways it's just like holding a bulky 8" tablet in one hand while using the other to manipulate controls on the device. By the time you grasp the device in your palm, my thumb hardly reaches any usable functions. One hand operates the device while the other hand merely holds it.

They did, have you seen the CAB1L?  One handed and has all the common functions.

Plenty of good honest sellers on eBay. The question is whether you want to pay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTH-D...349624.m46890.l49286

@U. John Biffoni posted:

The issue is having a TIU that functions with a remote. MTH 50-1003 TIU which functions with a remote is no longer being manufactured. The alternative option being offered is 50-1039 which as I understand it is a TIU that ONLY functions with Wifi and will not work with a remote. Please correct me know if I’m wrong because if 50-1039 works with a remote that would address my concerns!

I still see a market for a Premier Remote for MTH DCS.  If they are not building TIU's that use a wireless remote, then that leaves some thinking to be done.  Maybe time to cull the herd a little further.  It is that important to me.

If you keep your eyes peeled and are the patient type there are some good deals to be found both there on the buy/sell forum and eBay. I was looking for a backup TIU with or without a remote. Back in early December I came across such a deal. TIU and a remote for $340. The ad was a Buy-it-NOW and didn't say what revision the TIU was but at the prices these things have been going for I took the deal. Turned out to be revision L (all four channels tested good). In addition to that it had an additional remote, AIU and a WiFi module.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Well, yes and now.  You still have that very unwieldy thing hanging out there, even if all the buttons are somewhat accessible.  I still don't see that as a one-handed operation.

They did, have you seen the CAB1L?  One handed and has all the common functions.

And yet at our regional club that exclusively uses the the original CAB-1 everyone still uses two hands and looks at it while doing so to make sure they are pushing the right button.

My example above is not the only only choice. There are literally 1000's of different styles remotes (one and two handed models) that can be used with this project.  In fact, I've got so good at using that remote that I have detached the screen and just hold the controller now.I don't have a screen to look at, the controller is fully ergonomic to my hands (one or two) and the button layout is intuitively placed as to how I like it. When it comes to the Cab-1 I'd like to remap the Boost & Brake with the Whistle & Bell buttons, how do I do that?

Why should we be limited to Lionel's & MTH's "one size fits all" remotes when you can go on Amazon and buy the controller with the button layout you like and and arrange the exact button functions the way you prefer? This will never happen with a CAB or DCS remote as they lack any form of universal interface & protocol for communicating with 3rd party equipment.

Here's my experience, yours may vary.  If it has a screen you will look at it when performing 80% of the operations.  Simple whistle and throttle commands are probably the exception in most cases.  Both the Legacy and DCS remotes require this because of the nature of the functions.

Two handed operation was never an issue for me.  I always for the most case use both hands even with the DCS remote BUT i can operate either one with a single hand.  Go figure.  The CAB1 and CAB1L I look at a lot less because there is no screen but when you have to go to the numeric keypad you have to look at it.

Do I look at the smart apps more.  Yep.  There isn't much you can do without looking at it because there is very little to feel.  I kind of like the game controller shown above.  Still using my 2 hands I am accustomed to and have some tactile feeling. 

Again your mileage will vary and most likely a lot.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I can't help it if your club members can't remember where a few buttons are without looking at the remote.  Ditto the comment for two hands.

And neither can Lionel nor MTH. Maybe if someone would have looked into some basic ergonomics instead of using the blocky 8 bit Nintendo controller from the previous decade as a model, we wouldn't have this problem. And why is the CAB-2 such a leap backwards in one handed operation? The newest LC remotes are the same way running the throttle with one hand is very hard to do.

The reality is that while we run trains, with a somewhat one handed remote the other hand isn't doing anything anyway. Lionel knows this, that's why the CAB-2 & the LC remotes are configured the way they are.

Now with a customizable controller interface & app, the basic functions can be operated one handed and you can operate the more advance functions with a second hand just as you have to with the current models of dedicate remotes. This is all done while not looking at what you press because the remote is configured for one & two handed operation to the users exact liking. It's more than just tactile feedback and pushing a button that is identical to so many others on the remote. There is an ergonomics element so that users can identify the layout and functions of button without looking. Each button has it's own unique feel & texture so looking at them never becomes necessary. Kind of like why there are raised bumps on the F & J keys on your keyboard.

On the Cab-1 how do you know which train you are currently controlling?

@Frank Mulligan posted:

On the Cab-1 how do you know which train you are currently controlling?

There is no visual cue from the remote only whatever engine is reacting to the input.

All the surgeons I've known operate with both hands.  It tends to wind up with better results.  I guess evolution and natural selection just worked that out.  Other than my toothbrush and electric razor, I mostly use two hands. Try cutting a carrot accurately with one hand.  The accuracy of one hand operations is greatly over-rated, not to mention not looking at what you are doing . If it's at all important or risky, use both hands and look at what you are doing is my overall advice.

@Frank Mulligan posted:

On the Cab-1 how do you know which train you are currently controlling?

Blow the horn! 😉😁

We recorded an update to the DCS App remote controller operation with James operating and narrating. Some minor expanded functionality and slight button rearrangement.

Man, and people complain about the threads where people point out problems with their $2000 trains.

THIS thread is no fun anymore...

@U. John Biffoni posted:

The issue is having a TIU that functions with a remote. MTH 50-1003 TIU which functions with a remote is no longer being manufactured. The alternative option being offered is 50-1039 which as I understand it is a TIU that ONLY functions with Wifi and will not work with a remote. Please correct me know if I’m wrong because if 50-1039 works with a remote that would address my concerns!

You can use a phone handset cord to tether a remote off of the new TIU 50-1039. The only issue is, that remote will only then communicate with that TIU. Obviously, with four outputs you can support up to four tracks. I have jumpered two smaller loops off of the same TIU port with success - we ran that way today. So if you can operate with a single TIU you are all set. For someone that operates more than one TIU, each one would need to have its own remote tethered to it.

At our layout, the big layout runs trains via our iPads across four TIUs; we have an additional layout on the east side of the building that's operated with a remote tethered to a TIU and they don't interfere with the big layout. In back, is another TIU with a tethered remote we use for our test track in the workshop. I am getting ready to add a fourth independent loop and will tether a remote once again.

I don't like using the DCS app on my iPhone, but on an iPad, even the iPad mini it works really good. It is much easier to change between trains; execute the various commands; and not nearly the delay I experience with the remote. Today, we were running over twenty trains at the same time off of one iPad.

The 50-1039 was in test last week at MTH in Michigan, assuming everything is okay, they will give the go ahead for the production. I am thinking probably another 90-120 days before they get here. I am not clear on when the new remotes will ship.

You might recall Mike announced originally, last year, that DCS would continue on in a new entity, and most recently, Atlas licensed DCS for not only the MTH tooling they took over, but for Atlas tooling as well. Last I heard, their engineers were already fitting DCS components into their products.

Bottom line, rest easy. DCS isn't going away.

I'm very skeptical of Atlas ever becoming a major player in the O Gauge market, even if they start to put DCS in their locomotives.  They  just aren't available in any quantity or variety. I looked at their website, and the websites of several large O gauge dealers and some don't have any Atlas in stock or if they do, it may only be one locomotive. It must be a tough world to live in if you solely depend on Atlas for your locomotives!

@Madockawando posted:

I'm very skeptical of Atlas ever becoming a major player in the O Gauge market, even if they start to put DCS in their locomotives.

Skeptical of anyone but Lionel being a major player in O gauge? Hmm, this seems like an ongoing theme here...

I think the fact that Atlas has acquired the molds for many diesels, and has access to a factory to make them, changes things a bit.  

@rplst8 posted:

Skeptical of anyone but Lionel being a major player in O gauge? Hmm, this seems like an ongoing theme here...

I think the fact that Atlas has acquired the molds for many diesels, and has access to a factory to make them, changes things a bit.  

Hmmm... No, what I said is that I am skeptical of ATLAS becoming a major player in the O gauge market. Atlas is a small niche company  and their offerings of O gauge locomotives are nice but very limited variety and availability. There is nothing in Atlas’s history or in its press release that gives any indication (or hope) that they have any ambition to be a major player in O gauge.

While I agree there is nothing in the history of Atlas O since Jim Weaver's untimely death to suggest they are going to be a force in this segment of model railroading, the future could be different. I think a lot depends on market forces. If some combination of more people entering the hobby and pandemic induced more time at home leads to more purchases by those who are committed to DCS locomotives, Atlas O could become a significant maker of locomotives, in contrast to their recent history.  We'll see what happens.  On balance, I suspect they will be bigger than the almost nothing they've been doing, but more a niche role that Weaver had rather than a major force, as MTH was.  But I've been wrong before .