Reproduction wheels on tinplate locomotives

while it should affect value, i am more in favor of seeing a model with reproduction wheels that runs vs having damaged original wheels which would keep it on a shelf.  my only objection is seeing some horribly reproduced wheels.  i include in this group some machined wheels i've seen as replacements for Flyer lead and trailing trucks.  i sure wish someone would make accurate cast replacements for those.

cheers...gary

Harry Henning was looking for input on american flyer wheels, gary maybe you could help him with advice on what is needed, he had a post about it that is on the bottom of page 2.

A realise there's an overall value difference in the locos values, but on shear numbers alone, not to mention the soft quality of the originals, I can't believe Marx wheels aren't readily reproduced. Or at least some kits for regearing and elimination of fat wheels for that matter.

I hate to say this, but the sad reality is that Lionel didn't perfect the Die-Casting metal mixture until very late in the Prewar game.  Die-Cast parts produced in the late 20's and early 30's are something of a crap shoot.  Some pieces are rock solid after all these years...  While others have practically crumbled into dust.  For example, I have a couple of No.10 locomotives that are similar in age and condition.  Yet the wheels on one had swollen & cracked until the engine was inoperable, while its sister piece has perfect original wheels.  I also have a 402 where the drive wheels on one motor truck had swollen & were starting to bind.  But the other motor's wheels were perfect.  Would I have preferred to keep our grandfathers trains completely original...  You bet I would.  Buy the price of that decision would mean permanent banishment to my train shelves, so I replaced them.  Maybe i'm crazy, but I love putting grandpa's old trains under my Christmas tree and telling our kids that the trains they're playing with now, are the same ones their great-grandpa played with almost a hundred years ago.   So what it all boils down to is this...  If you have a piece you'd like to have, but it has to be 100% original, then keep on looking... Eventually you'll find one.  But if you have an otherwise great piece, and you can live with a couple replacement wheels, then see if you can negotiate a few bucks with the seller.  That's what makes train collecting so much fun...  There's something out there for everyone.  The fun is finding what appeals to you !            

Have you looked at the Model Engineering Wheels that Henning's now produces?  They're selling like hotcakes, and they're very nice looking wheels.  Henning's bought Model Engineering Works and is producting many of the products with more in the pipeline as they get up to speed.  If you liked the MEW wheels, check out Henning's Trains.

I've been using MEW wheels for years and they're excellent reproductions.

I know there are some nice reproduction wheels available and clearly if the choice is no wheels or reproduction wheels one has no option.  However, does a re-wheeled locomotive assume the same status as a "restored" one and does re-wheeling a locomotive significantly impact its collector value?

appreciate the input on Flyer cast wheels.  have to admit my attention has been on live steam for the most part over the past decade.  this might be the ticket to getting some nice later Flyer models i have into running condition again.

i would say that a well done wheel reproduction/ restoration would have a rather low impact on value, in the same class to me as rewiring (if it is done with period wire) or a gear replacement.  of course all original parts will always command the highest value, but maintaining operating models is what interests me most about this hobby.

cheers...gary

A realise there's an overall value difference in the locos values, but on shear numbers alone, not to mention the soft quality of the originals, I can't believe Marx wheels aren't readily reproduced. Or at least some kits for regearing and elimination of fat wheels for that matter.

Here is a link to the only Marx parts manufacturer of which I know.
I do not have his catalog, so I cannot say whether he makes wheels.
Update: I just discovered that if you click on "Order here" you can see what is available.

Robert Grossman

1. Grossman often has used ones, but Marx are prone to having the hub splines wear out and let lose; the wheel metal is kinda soft. So I'd prefer new, even if they are "fancy" wheels. I need 3 sets right now.
2. Would new wheels effect the value?- Yes, but that's a train by train case.  You'd increase the value of a common runner loco and likely decrease the value of an extremely rare one IMO. It will ultimately be up to the buyer; I buy runners.
3. Save the wheels?
4. ←I didn't turn on the numbering.
5.    I can't shut it off either.
6.   L.O.L.
7.    

I get a few prewar locos come in for repair that was grandpas train and they want ti to run again so I order new wheels from George Tiebolt. He has a stock of MTH, Bowser and Marx wheels that Ive put on quite a few. I guess I dont understand why the repro wheels would sour you, if you've ever seen wheels with severe zinc pest as lots of them get you will quickly change your tune as they swell up and crumble apart. Unless you're willing to install repro wheels im sure the off chance you actually fine NOS originals that old wil most likely have the same issue. Whats the point of having the train if you cant actually run it or even say that it runs

Unless you're willing to install repro wheels im sure the off chance you actually fine NOS originals that old wil most likely have the same issue.

Even if you found NOS originals, they would probably be so brittle that they would shatter when you tried to install them.

One exception, in 1950 Lionel made a run of standard gauge wheels as part of their anniversary celebration. But one could argue whether they were "original".

Railroads changed wheels often on steam and diesel engines. It is a normal wear item. No  big deal really.

Brittle is right, I don't think I've ever needed a tool to remove old wheels

I look at it this way, repro wheels are just fine.  You get a bonus if they are original.

I had an original come thru I'm still working on where the wheels were just starting to crack and I put new ones on since the tender body and the loco frame both needed to be replaced. I have a full set of Lionel 1835E wheels that I believe to be original still eft in OK to good shape

My thought is that repro wheels only hurt the value of very rare, collectible items that you wouldn't run on a layout. I wouldn't think repro wheels would impact the price of a C6-7 engine that you plan to run once in awhile. C6 allows for some part replacement. The issue of value really depends on the market for the item and how rare it is.

George

George S posted:

... very rare, collectible items that you wouldn't run on a layout. ...

i'm not sure there is anything i would put in this class.

C W Burfle posted:

Unless you're willing to install repro wheels im sure the off chance you actually fine NOS originals that old wil most likely have the same issue.

Even if you found NOS originals, they would probably be so brittle that they would shatter when you tried to install them.

One exception, in 1950 Lionel made a run of standard gauge wheels as part of their anniversary celebration. But one could argue whether they were "original".

Beyond that, unless it is Grandpa's old train AND his memory is in good shape, how can you be sure the wheels on it *are* the originals?  They may have been changed over the decades, even if it was in the '30s.  Do ancient replacement's affect the value more or less than modern ones?

I can imagine someone paying more for a piece with junk wheels rather than new ones, but I can imagine quite a few things that I deem silly.  If the wheels are gone, the original value--as anything other than the subject of an academic study--is gone with them.  Replace the wheels, and run the train!

overlandflyer posted:

George S posted:

... very rare, collectible items that you wouldn't run on a layout. ...

i'm not sure there is anything i would put in this class.

The Marklin “Presidential” gauge I set from the Ward Kimball collection sold for $71,500 at auction. I am not that kind of collector. I collect to operate, as I suspect you do. However, I would not mess with a train that I paid $71,500 for, whether to replace the wheels or chance running it on my layout. An accident could easily wipe thousands of dollars of value away.

If you have a train with rotting wheels and don't replace them, it will decrease the value.

The value is in the original wheels not having disintegrated.  

The Marklin example is something different altogether, in that the Presidential set is a rare item and should be kept as original as possible.  But when you have a Lionel, of which there are a lot of out there, one with disintegrating wheels will get passed over for one with intact, original wheels anyday.

When I've looked at any Pre-war tinplate, the disintegrated wheels sour me more than one that has nicely replaced wheels.

overlandflyer posted:

George S posted:

... very rare, collectible items that you wouldn't run on a layout. ...

i'm not sure there is anything i would put in this class.

How about a 2 7/8 gauge gondola with Joshua Lionel Cohen and Harry Grant autographs on the bottom?  Not that I own one of those, but if I did I'd at least think twice about running it. 

All,  Thank you so much for your collective opinions.  Seems like I need to re-calibrate myself on replacement wheels.  I certainly can see the point that "I need to see the wheels turn!".   It is a simple pleasure that doesn't ever get old  to see your vintage trains running down the track.  Thanks again, Jeff

George S posted:

overlandflyer posted:

George S posted:

... very rare, collectible items that you wouldn't run on a layout. ...

i'm not sure there is anything i would put in this class.

The Marklin “Presidential” gauge I set from the Ward Kimball collection sold for $71,500 at auction. I am not that kind of collector. I collect to operate, as I suspect you do. However, I would not mess with a train that I paid $71,500 for, whether to replace the wheels or chance running it on my layout. An accident could easily wipe thousands of dollars of value away.

i wonder how many so-called valuable trains are damaged in an operations accident vs those that have been lost to fires, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, etc.  my guess would be a much greater chance of a loss occurring in a man-made or natural disaster.  what a shame it would be to never see that train run only to have it eventually destroyed on the shelf.

would i run it at full throttle around tight curves, ...no.  but i repeat, motors need to be run or eventually you will truly have a static display model.

like old cars, old trains are always better with original parts. but, like old cars, some times original parts aren't  available, or too costly. my '69 road runner has after market parts on it because originals are too expensive, and my car isn't an ultra rare model to warrant expensive original parts.

Replace the wheels and have fun. You can always put the old wheels in a ziplock bag so if the engine is sold you could give the new owner the option of putting the original wheels back on and making a shelf queen.
If you liked the 257 and it looked/runs good you should negotiated the price and purchased it. Replacement wheels are about $30.00 to $40.00.

It has always been my opinion that there are 2 items that do not effect the resale value of your locos, that being replacement cast wheels & replacement cast lights. I do not think I could ever sell a loco w/ non operating wheels for as much as an operating loco w/ replacement wheels.

P.S.  We are now working on Lionel "O/027"  8 spoke wheels. They should be identified and listed in the next 30 days.  Harry

I agree: replace with QUALITY wheels and run those engines! 

Replacement cast wheels and/or headlights is a time honored tradition since the time of Bill Vagell, one of the pioneers of replacement parts along with Dick Wheeler.