Reprogramming a K-Line Steam Locomotive

Does your engine have k-Line Cruise? If not there are no speed step choices.

Pete

@Norton posted:

Does your engine have k-Line Cruise? If not there are no speed step choices.

Pete

As I mentioned it is road number 1361.  Actual P/N K3380-1361CC and yes it does have Cruise.  But my real question was if you use the process outlined and other Locomotives sit on the layout when you enter the sequence of commands while all Locomotive are in the "RUN" mode would thy all not receive and react to the sequence since there is nothing that specifies (That I can fathom from the writeup) a particular Locomotive?

Only engines that with K-Line Cruise would respond and only if they had been previously addressed. Those codes don't mean anything to Odyssey or ERR Cruise engines.

Pete

@Loose-Caboose posted:

But my real question was if you use the process outlined and other Locomotives sit on the layout when you enter the sequence of commands while all Locomotive are in the "RUN" mode would thy all not receive and react to the sequence since there is nothing that specifies (

No. Because you would be addressing the locomotive first. Then entering the commands.

Regardless, any tmcc or legacy locomotive will only respond when addressed by its unique i.d. that you have programmed.

The only exceptions would be if you never reprogrammed anything out of the box as most come as i.d. #1 from the factory. Or in the case of newer legacy.i.d.# 99 is the "all" code.

@RickO posted:

No. Because you would be addressing the locomotive first. Then entering the commands.

Regardless, any tmcc or legacy locomotive will only respond when addressed by its unique i.d. that you have programmed.

The only exceptions would be if you never reprogrammed anything out of the box as most come as i.d. #1 from the factory. Or in the case of newer legacy.i.d.# 99 is the "all" code.

I am attaching the instruction garnered from the Informational thread that is regarding TMCC/Legacy Reference Material.  This document for setting speed steps follows the Manual for this engine in that there is no information/verbiage about "Addressing" thee locomotive.  Reading further down the attached file is a dissertation on assigning features and again there is no verbiage regarding "Addressing" the specific Locomotive.  Is there since I may not have all the information, How would I garner the attention of the Locomotive I wish to accept the commands?  Could you fill in the blanks that I am not understanding for a complete command structure.  Is there a response from the Locomotive if the command structure is accepted?

Sorry forgot the attachment.

Jim, You program the engine in program mode with your new ID # and feature code. Then you move the switch to run and address the engine with its new ID number. The engine fires up and then you enter the code for your desired speed steps.

Pete

OK, I am completely befuddled.  There must be something else going on with this Locomotive.  I have also its sister Locomotive 3876, P/N K3380-3876C.  I do as the manual/instructions say and it seems to operate as advertised.  I am wondering if the "RUN/PROG" switch may be failing?  Also I have a battery in this particular engine so after power is removed, the Railsounds still continue with the Shut Down sequence.  I think I have had enough frustration for the day. Tomorrow I will remove the battery, what the Heck, maybe.  Then try it all over again.  I will also check continuity through the switch while I have the Tender Shell and Boiler Shell off.

I am sorry for the delay in reporting back.  I did my testing on Monday and then on Tuesday I ran in to a problem accessing my Web Browser.  Today it is working correctly so here is my report on my testing.

Here is what I experienced today (Monday).  As I said I have the sister Locomotive to my problem child.  I removed both boiler Shells from 1361, my Problem Child, and 3876, which appears to be working correctly.  I got my meter out and here is what I discovered.  As you are probably aware the "Run/Prog" switch is a single pole double throw (SPDT) switch.  As I surmised the center lead on the switch goes to case ground.  Each engine registered Zero ohms when one lead on the center lead and with the other lead on a screw attaching a wire to the chassis, hence continuity. Also noted was that the lead comported to be the "RUN" lead has no wire soldered to it.

When the switch is moved to "Program Mode" on both Locomotives testing for continuity/opens began.  Chassis Gnd/Center Lead to Program lead showed Zero Ohms and continuity.  "Program Lead" (meaning the lead on the side of the Label "PROG") to the Center Lead (Case Gnd) a reading of Zero ohms was recorded.  This made sense to me.  As usually this indication to the circuitry of a Gnd condition means this function is active.   "Run Lead" (meaning the lead on the side of the switch Label "RUN") to the Center Lead (Case Gnd) a reading of Open was recorded.  This made sense to me, as I would assume that there is no electrical path between the two as the switch is not making an electrical path between the two.

I then moved the switch to "RUN Mode" on both Locomotives but this time I made different readings between the two engines.  Chassis Gnd/Center Lead to Program lead showed 50K Ohms on both Locomotives.  I do not know what to make of this reading unless I was reading circuitry in the electronics and it did make sense to me after thinking about it.  "Program Lead" (meaning the lead on the side of the switch Labeled "PROG") to the Center Lead (Case Gnd) a reading of Zero ohms was recorded on Locomotive 1361.  This does not make sense to me as the switch should not be providing an electrical path between the leads.   When making the same measurement on Locomotive 3876 a very high, 5 Megohms, was recorded.  This is close to an Open but does show some leakage.  "Run Lead" (meaning the lead on the side of the Label "RUN") to the Center Lead (Case Gnd) a reading of 0 ohms was recorded.  This made sense to me, as the switch is making an electrical path between the two leads.

FINDINGS

If I am correct, this analysis would demonstrate that the switch on Locomotive 1361 is defective.  Even with the switch in the "RUN Mode" there was a short between the Center lead and the Program Lead.  In my mind this should have demonstrated an "OPEN".  I am somewhat concerned regarding Locomotive 3876.  I would have surmised a definite Open should have been recorded when the switch is in "RUN Mode" between the Center lead and the Program Lead.  Could this High reading still be interpreted by the circuitry as an open?

I would appreciate your critic of my methods or my findings.  Thank-you for your review.

Looks like you found the problem Jim. The two terminals on the switch that have wires soldered to them should read open (actually 50K ohms is OK) when in the run mode. Your engine is always in program mode. You could unsolder one of the wires on the switch and make sure its the switch that is bad and not a connection at the other end (R2LC).

The switch shorts Pin 22 to Pins 3,4 in program mode and is open in run mode.

Pete

Thank you Pete and RickO for all your assistance.  I removed the lead on Program Lead.  I taped the Loose end of the wire to make sure that it would not touch case GND while i look for a new switch.   I am now having a different issue that I will be starting a new thread on.

Again thanks!

So I am also having an issue with my remote so that maybe why I am having confusing issues.  I am taking a breather to work through this issue.  I have to take some time to figure out what I want to do next.  But the Locomotive is still not working correctly even with that lead removed from the switch.  Again I may not have been cognizant of the issue with my Legacy Remote(s) when these symptoms occurred so take them with a grain of salt.  When I now apply power to the track, my normal engines show the lights coming on.  When I enter the "ENG" then insert the Locomotive ID and press "Boost" the sounds come on and additional commands can be sent to the Locomotive and they are acknowledged by the locomotive.  With my Problem Child, Now as soon as power is applied to the track, the Lights come on along with the Sounds and the Locomotive begins to move.  The movement is erratic either moving then jumping and then stopping or one time the locomotive left the Yard track and proceeded down the mainline until I hit the Triangle Emergency Stop button as it would not respond to any commands from my Remote.  Needs some real thought.

You may have a bad radio board (R2LC). Try swapping that board between engines and see if the problem follows the board. That could also explain the problem with programming the engines. The R2LC is the one held in place with the 24 pin connector. That just pull off. Make sure when plugging them back in all the pins line up with the mating connector. One column off and the board can be damaged.

Pete

This Locomotive has been a problem Child for well over a year.  Now way back when, I did swap the Radio boards between the Sister locomotives and the symptoms did, if I remember correctly, follow the Radio board from the problem Child.  I wish I had remembered that when I started down this path just recently.  That is the good thing about cooperation.  Thanks for the Gentle Reminder.  I will swap them tomorrow and see what happens.

I am having now some issues with my Legacy Remotes.  I have contacted Lionel Support regarding these issues and until my remotes are corrected i am not going to do any further work on my problem Child.

thank-you for your ideas and help.