unfortunately NO I only tested this with the only type of choke that I had but I am sure this will be the case for all chokes that it would kill the DCS signal.
Originally Posted by RJR:
Will a DCS signal pass through a choke?
Maybe I'm missing something or misreading something. If you put a choke in a power lead to a siding, then you won't get a DCS signal onto that siding. SO what's the point of doing so?
It's a yard and I am going to dedicate like 2 or 3 of he 6 just for DCS only.
Originally Posted by RJR:
Maybe I'm missing something or misreading something. If you put a choke in a power lead to a siding, then you won't get a DCS signal onto that siding. SO what's the point of doing so?
The ideal is that any loco can go anywhereon the layout at any time, and it can be done.
Matthew,
If you just turn off power to the TMCC sidings, that will also provide the same solution as a choke on the siding.
Originally Posted by Matthew:
Barry, yes I actually tested a few times and each with positive results. Example: I have a 6 track yard with one feed for each of the 6 tracks that gang up to a 12 port MTH terminal block. Track # 5 and 6 had MTH engines on them. Track 4 had 3 TMCC engines (Atlas and Lionel) and track 3 had an Acela with 6 passenger cars. While all TMCC engines were at idle I moved each of the MTH engines one at a time up and down track 5 and 6 and had noting but signal problems and remote would be unresponsive to my MTH engines. Then I hooked up a choke on center rail feed for tracks 3 and 4 (each had there own choke) and then I ran the test again by moving the MTH engines up and down the current tracks they were on (5 and 6) and not a single issue with DCS and responded to remote commands without issue. Since I only had radio shacks RF chokes 100UH rated at 2 amps which was all they had but these things were getting really hot especially the one that was feeding the Acela. As John stated I am going to need (if I can find them online somewhere) at least 6 amps or more chokes. I started to search for these on the net but so far no luck.
Originally Posted by Barry Broskowitz:
Matthew,
You do realize that there's a very good chance that putting the chokes on the sidings rather than in the engines won't accomplish anything, correct?
I guess you could use 4 or 5 of the 100 uh chokes in parallel to a siding. That I think would give you 20-25 uh,decrease the resistance (resulting in heat) and increase the amperage rating by 4 or 5 I think. Spread them out a bit when wiring to avoid intersecting fluxes. Maybe one of the engineers could correct me if I am wrong.
Dale H
RJR, I will maybe eventually install the chokes on my engines pickups for for me that would be a pain because I do have a decent amount of engines and passenger cars and I hate to have to take apart the Acela as that engine is one of my biggest pains 
Right now I can mix both MTH and TMCC on same loop just not in my yards without major issues. Don't get me wrong the signal is not so great on my main lines when mixing them so I don't usually try to run both at same time. I just keep them on separate loops.
Right now I can mix both MTH and TMCC on same loop just not in my yards without major issues. Don't get me wrong the signal is not so great on my main lines when mixing them so I don't usually try to run both at same time. I just keep them on separate loops. I am hoping that the new DCS system will at least be no longer have these issues running with Lionel engines. I have to say as much as I love MTH and DCS my Legacy system seems to almost never have a signal problem. I am just not a fan of the remote as it is so bulky..I much prefer DCS over Legacy but both are great products. I just find DCS easier to operate switches and accessory's using DCS remote system. I almost want to switch totally to MTH but I love some of Lionels engines especially the Big Boy and Acela despite the issues..lol
Originally Posted by RJR:
The ideal is that any loco can go anywhereon the layout at any time, and it can be done.
Barry, I plan on doing something nice for my yards wiring (if it all works well when done) I will post a video or at least pictures if I get everything working the way I have planned. I ordered 7Gardner Bender GSW-16 double pole duel throw switches and plan to do something nice with them. I think if all works out the way would like it to be you will all appreciate it.Will keep you all posted.
You guys have been nothing but great with all of your advice and suggestions.
GARDNER BENDER INC Gb Electrical Gsw-16 |
Originally Posted by Barry Broskowitz:
Matthew,
If you just turn off power to the TMCC sidings, that will also provide the same solution as a choke on the siding.
Dale, since I do not understand the physics of electricity I did not know or think of paralleling them together. I will most certinly try them together. When you say spread them out do you mean connect a piece of wire between each choke? Intersecting fluxes?? is that a flux capacitor....lol
Originally Posted by Dale H:
Originally Posted by Matthew:
Barry, yes I actually tested a few times and each with positive results. Example: I have a 6 track yard with one feed for each of the 6 tracks that gang up to a 12 port MTH terminal block. Track # 5 and 6 had MTH engines on them. Track 4 had 3 TMCC engines (Atlas and Lionel) and track 3 had an Acela with 6 passenger cars. While all TMCC engines were at idle I moved each of the MTH engines one at a time up and down track 5 and 6 and had noting but signal problems and remote would be unresponsive to my MTH engines. Then I hooked up a choke on center rail feed for tracks 3 and 4 (each had there own choke) and then I ran the test again by moving the MTH engines up and down the current tracks they were on (5 and 6) and not a single issue with DCS and responded to remote commands without issue. Since I only had radio shacks RF chokes 100UH rated at 2 amps which was all they had but these things were getting really hot especially the one that was feeding the Acela. As John stated I am going to need (if I can find them online somewhere) at least 6 amps or more chokes. I started to search for these on the net but so far no luck.
Originally Posted by Barry Broskowitz:
Matthew,
You do realize that there's a very good chance that putting the chokes on the sidings rather than in the engines won't accomplish anything, correct?
I guess you could use 4 or 5 of the 100 uh chokes in parallel to a siding. That I think would give you 20-25 uh,decrease the resistance (resulting in heat) and increase the amperage rating by 4 or 5 I think. Spread them out a bit when wiring to avoid intersecting fluxes. Maybe one of the engineers could correct me if I am wrong.
Dale H
I do have a decent amount of engines and passenger cars and I hate to have to take apart the Acela as that engine is one of my biggest pains
Matt,
I would check each engine, one at a time, to find out which ones are interfering with the DCS signal. You may only have one or two causing a problem and they are the only ones needing a choke. Then you could keep these on a siding that is switched off while running your DCS engines, until you get the right chokes installed in the problem producers.
Keep them spaced out (away from each other) maybe about an inch or so. They emit a field around them and you would not want the fields to intersect as they might interfere with each other and be less effective. I might be wrong on this but I think it should be considered anyway. Though not commonly done chokes can be put in series or parallel just like resistors.
Here is a link explaining inductors
www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/inductance.htm
Dale H
Originally Posted by Barry Broskowitz:
Matthew,
You do realize that there's a very good chance that putting the chokes on the sidings rather than in the engines won't accomplish anything, correct?
If he's trying to block the DCS from that track in the yard, I would think it would accomplish that.
The purpose for chokes are not to block dcs even though it does but its to block interference coming out of the tmcc/legacy engines that cause dcs signal to drop on a dcs engine that's on another track in my yard that will not have a choke installed. That's why i an dedicateing tracks in my yard used only for dcs (without choke)
Right, it works both ways.
I agree with Barry. Why bother with the chokes in the first place if you can't run the TMCC and DCS together anyway.
they all pretty much interfere with my DCS system. Some are worse then others. I don't really want to always shut yard runs that have TMCC engines because I would like at time have them all up and idling in the yard. I just like the look and sounds of engines idling in freight yards.
Originally Posted by Joe Allen:
I do have a decent amount of engines and passenger cars and I hate to have to take apart the Acela as that engine is one of my biggest pains
Matt,
I would check each engine, one at a time, to find out which ones are interfering with the DCS signal. You may only have one or two causing a problem and they are the only ones needing a choke. Then you could keep these on a siding that is switched off while running your DCS engines, until you get the right chokes installed in the problem producers.
Tonight I connected the 2 100UH chokes in parallel with each other with even a lenght of short#14 wire in between and when I powered on the Acela the 2 chokes seemed to have gotten much hotter then with just a single choke by itself. The acela draws a lot of amps so I think I am going to need try and find chokes that will handle such an amp draw.
If anyone knows of some good chokes that support at least 6 amps or more please let me know because I need to find and order these ASAP so I can finish the wiring in my yard.
Thanks!
4 of the ones you have in parallel would handle 8 amps assuming they are 2 amps each. Parallel, not Series.
Anyway here is a 13 amp one
www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/J...9bNnxMXyqxhH5wDCk%3d
With the small amount of resistance,it should not get hot.
Dale H
Thanks a lot for the find Dale, wow they are almost $7ea lol. I noticed that they don't say the word choke in the product name I take it "Inductors" indicates it's a choke?
Originally Posted by Dale H:
4 of the ones you have in parallel would handle 8 amps assuming they are 2 amps each. Parallel, not Series.
Anyway here is a 13 amp one
www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/J...9bNnxMXyqxhH5wDCk%3d
With the small amount of resistance,it should not get hot.
Dale H
the real name is inductor
Originally Posted by Matthew:
Thanks a lot for the find Dale, wow they are almost $7ea lol.
Well, you have $500 engines sitting there, so I think $7 is not unreasonable. 
None in stock and a 13 week shipping date.
Joe are you talking about Mouser has none in stock?? That would stink as i wanted to order like 7
in parallel with each other with even a lenght of short#14 wire in between
When you say "a [=1] short length [singular] of wire in between" the chokes, it sounds like they're wired in series. There should be two lengths between them, one at each end, with the TIU wire at one end and the track wire at the other.
Yes i'm confused as well. If you say in series and add a lenght of wire between how am i supposed to do that?
I saw the 6amp ones up there but was wondering to play it safe if i should look for at least a 10amp
I saw the 6amp ones up there but was wondering to play it safe if i should look for at least a 10amp
i was thinking The 13 amp one. Just not sure what the rest of the #s mean but if these are what i'm looking for it looks like a good site to order from and great price for the 13amp ones
Do like I did last week, get the 6 A Dale link , do you really have an engine that get more than 6 A ?
Yes i'm confused as well. If you say in series and add a lenght of wire between how am i supposed to do that?
I saw the 6amp ones up there but was wondering to play it safe if i should look for at least a 10amp
I saw the 6amp ones up there but was wondering to play it safe if i should look for at least a 10amp
6 amp ones might be too small since it's for my yard which might have a few engines on that line so i might be better off with more amps
Given your situation of having more than one locomotive on the line, I'd just go for the 13A ones. Hard to argue with the price of the ones you found!
Thanks Dale, I ordered 10 of those 22uh 13amp chokes. Should get them in a few days.
Thanks everyone for your support, suggestions and patience. You all have been great! Once i receive and test these chokes i will be sure to post results.
Thanks everyone for your support, suggestions and patience. You all have been great! Once i receive and test these chokes i will be sure to post results.
Matt, I don't want to confuse you. Your phraseology gave me pause.
There are many forumites who would not be familiar with series or parallel connections and I do not know the extent of your electrical knowledge. Stated another way, if they are in series every electron flows through one and then the other; in parallel, an electron can flow through on or the other but not both.
Matt
Here is a diagram of inductors in parallel. What I meant was to keep them spaced apart horizontally to avoid intersecting fields. If all the inductors are equal the load should distribute fairly evenly between the inductors (commonly called chokes). If in series the resistance would increase,not what you want.
Dale H
Attachments
Images (1)
Since he ordered the 13A ones, this is probably a moot point now.
Thanks, Dale, for the graphic--worth a 1000 words, & clearer.
BUT, how did you accomplish the posting of the graphic?
Robert,
BUT, how did you accomplish the posting of the graphic?
He made it into a jpeg, uploaded it like a photo and then embedded it in the body of the message. You start by clicking "Add Attachments" at the bottom of the new post window. You can post any jpeg that way.
Originally Posted by Barry Broskowitz:
Robert,
BUT, how did you accomplish the posting of the graphic?
He made it into a jpeg, uploaded it like a photo and then embedded it in the body of the message. You start by clicking "Add Attachments" at the bottom of the new post window. You can post any jpeg that way.
I think he was asking about the schematic capture program he used. 
Barry was correct. I downloaded a JPG to the post. I have an old Apple G4 not to compatible with a lot of stuff,plus I am not really that computer savvy.
Sorry Matt, I did not know before that you did not know what parallel meant for wiring. In a post above I linked a informational site on inductors with diagrams. If you put them in series instead of parallel you get the opposite effect,more resistance and heat.. I used to fix radios and amplifiers and did a lot of substitutions if I lacked parts. Anyway the 13 amp ones should work. A lot of the signal blocking stuff is an engineering problem beyond my pay grade. From what I read the chokes eliminate reflection,a fairly common issue in signal transmission. There are some smart people here who use DCS that can help you get it going . You may want to get Barry's book before doing it if you don't have it already,it may save you grief in the long run. Rewiring a layout is harder than wiring it right the first time. Dont be afraid to ask questions if you are not sure.. People here are pretty good about helping and explaining.
Since you are doing DCS and wiring, I suggest getting a copy of Getting Started in Electronics by Forrest Mimms. It is out of print but you could probably get a copy of it on the Bay,Amazon and elsewhere. It explains electronics and components in easy, simple terms. Just reading the first few chapters you will understand a lot in a short time,enough to understand wiring,common components and the like. I get confused sometime and refer to it to re establish basic principles. Good luck.
Dale H
