Rivet press or not? Help me decide.

Ahitpy,

It all depends on how much work you need to do and how much you plan on doing in the future. I've been lusting after one for years. Everytime I have enough saved...I see another engine I like. I'm 69 and I will tell you this. I'm buying myself one for Christmas this year.........or sooner. Honestly, I'd go ahead and buy one. FWIW

I went through this same decision process a few years ago. I had to justify the number of times I would use it verses the cost. What I found out was to avoid the modified arbor presses, and knock off's. A press is preferred over the riveter tool because it can do much more like press wheels on and push out old rivets and axles etc, and the cost is the same for either tool. I was prepared to purchase a new Hobby Horse press with a basic set of tools when I came across a guy who used to have a service station and needed to sell everything off. I got a fantastic bargain on the whole lot. They show up used at better prices if you have the time to wait for one to appear. In the end I am glad I got my press as it does make many tasks much easier and riveting comes out much nicer once you figure out which anvil and which cincher to use for your particular task. I would recommend the press and a basic set of tools to start, then get the coupler repair set, axle and pin straightener, and basic wheel cups later.

 

Gandy

I agree with Gandy that a used Hobby Horse press is going to be less expensive than new one.

However, the Lionel ST-350 rivet press, tools, and Lionel wheel cups are sought by both repairmen and collectors. Therefore they tend to be rather expensive. A new Hobby Horse press would almost certainly be less expensive than an ST-350 (but you could get lucky)

 

If you decide to go for a used Hobby Horse press, be aware that the press evolved over time.

 

I use one of the custom presses that Hobby Horse made up for Lionel.

 

I imagine most folks acquire their outfit in a fashion similar to how I did.

I started with the press, 15 piece tool set, and 10 piece wheel cup set. Then I added pieces gradually, sometimes buying items when needed, other times just picking up the latest new tool from Hobby Horse at York.

 

In addition to the basic tool set, Train Tender had some custom tools designed and made. (I have most of them)

 

These guys make some custom items too: http://ttrponline.com/ 

(I have a couple of pairs of their wheel cups and a couple of their custom tools.)

I have no experience with their press or basic tooling.

 

I often find that these special purpose tools are the best choice for jobs other than the purpose for which they were designed.

Unfortunately, with a few exceptions, the wheel cups are single purpose. (but often the same wheel was used on multiple locomotives

Sometimes there are situations when it's better to use the press tools without the press itself.
If you are going to do this, it is very important never to hit the press tools with a regular hammer. You might distort the tool or create a burr. Should that happen, there is a good chance the tool will get stuck in the press the next time you use it.

I use either a leather or rubber tipped hammer.

My Brakeman's Riveter set is used a lot more than my press, but there are some jobs that only a press will do (setting wheels on axles and gears on shafts).

  My press is similar to the  "STX-150 Rivet & Wheel Pres System" that came with the STX-350 Rivet Tool set and STX-375 Wheel Cup set. 

Find this press at 

http://ttrponline.com/index.ph...tuemart&Itemid=2

 

I mounted my press on a shelf tied to my laundry room wall studs for stability.

Well, took the plunge and ordered the press from ttrponline along with the wheel cup set.

Now I just need some rivets.......

I found the Brakeman's Riveter set works really well.

quote:

How does Jeff Kane play into this? Robert Kollman and Carl Burchett are the Hobby Horse figures. LIONEL asked them? I think it was  the other way around.

 

As I already wrote, Jeff Kane had tooling made on his own.

My samples are very nicely done.

 

Robert does not appear to be participating in the Hobby Horse business any longer.

 

Did you get your information from Carl or Robert?

 

Regardless, what difference does it make whether Lionel asked Carl or Carl asked Lionel?

 

The Lionel versions of the Hobby Horse tools were only available through Lionel.

 

The press, some of the E-unit vises and some of the E-unit spreaders are marked for Lionel.

 

Tell you what, I've known Carl for many years, I'll ask him who initiated the arrangement.

Here is my take on a rivet press. I have three. Two I bought, one being the hobby horse and one I made forty years ago. It is all aluminum and made in the same shape as an arbor press but only smaller. One I purchase from the last place I worked at. It is a toggle press and delivers a tremendous force through the toggle. It is also a heavy bugger.

 

The brakemans riveter is nothing more then a spring loaded center punch that they jacked the price up on. I have a couple of these center punches that I paid less them ten bucks for. They are very handy in the machinist trade.

 

By all means do buy the rivet press when you have the money to do so. I have used mine quite often and have made many tools for the press.

I have the Brakeman's Rivet kit, it's worked out great for me.  I've fixed switches, trucks, couplers, etc.  I even find uses for it with other projects that don't involved model trains.

 

Ahitby, I've been in your shoes, always wanted one but $250.. for the press and another $190.00 for the tooling was a bit much. My advice would be think of what you need to press, if you are like me, most of what I do is knuckle couplers, pick up rollers, switch parts, carbon rollers for K and ZW etc. , small stuff. For this I use a hand held press that I made, cost less than $10.00. I can actually press carbon rollers on a ZW w/o taking the contact roller arm off, its a 20 minute fix for all four rollers. The tool is nothing more than a modified pair of needle nose vise grips drilled and tapped with 2 small cap screws that are adjustable, you'll never crush a rivet. If you are interested I can post pics of mine so you can make your own. Good luck deciding.

 

Regards,

Joe Geiser

That sounds like a handy thing to have, I'd like to see the pictures.   The Brakeman's riveter isn't really useful in places like trying to put the rollers on a ZW without taking it apart.

gunrunnerjohn, here are the pics. Hardest part is drilling the holes, I used cap screws and ground down the clincher part to a soft rounded point,for the anvil part I simply ground down the cap so all was left was a small dimple to help center the rivet head. Once you use this you will never use anything else on a ZW or KW. Obvious drawback is the limited throat, about 2.5 inches. Replace knuckle coupler springs w/o even taking the body off. If you need more pics or info let me know. Good luck

 

Regards,

Joe Geiser

That is a nice tool that Joe has designed and built.

 .

 

That's great Joe, thanks!  I think that would be perfect for stuff like transformer rollers.

 

As far as coupler pins, I never take anything off to do them with the Brakeman's Riveter, I just remove the old rivet and put the new one in, very seamless.

 

Your tool looks perfect for stuff that doesn't lend itself to the riveter, I'll be shopping for a pair of those pliers next time I'm over at Harbor Freight!

Gunrunnerjohn,

     One thing I forgot to mention, you have to peen over the rivets holding the vise grips together, this will make the operation a little tighter and make alignment of the anvill and tool just about perfect. harbor freight is where I  bought mine, cheap  cast iron, easy to drill  through. I have other home made tools, for rebuilding E units, bending jigs and such, most were made from junk I already had, contact me at joegeiser@verizon.net if interested.

Regards,

Joe Geiser

Thanks Joe, I'd be interested in seeing what you made. 

I'd be very interested in seeing what you've created for E-units.

I know you can make that tool but you can also buy a hand dimpler with different inserts They're used in the automotive restoration and the aviation industry.They even have pneumatic ones that use an air compressor.

Great when you want to remove a panel and have it go back in the same place.
A press is like a metal lathe or a TIG welder if you have alot of uses for it then by all means buy one but if not it's going to be a useless dust collector.
The hand dimpler is the cheapest store bought way to go.

David

I think we were trying to keep it under $100 or so.  I suspect this tool ends up costing a little time and around $10.

Gunrunnerjohn,

     I'm going to start a seperate post entitled, "cheap tools for an easier fix", with the interest shown here I'm thinking others might use these simple to use, cheap tools. I'll have to take some pics first, I'll repost the hand press and add the E unit tool I call the stick. I've seen  $100.00 machined jigs to hold E unts for reassembly, I use a stick, cost $0.00, takes just a few minutes, like having a third hand, simple and it works. I have other tools and jigs I've made over the years and will be happy to share with  this forum if the interest is there. I am not knocking any tools or the people who use them, this is for the rest of us with not so deep pockets who want to turn out professional repairs without spending a lot.

 

Watch for the new post soon.

Regards,

Joe Geiser

Great Joe, that's a nice idea.

Would a press from harbor freight work? Would the anvils and clinchers fit? or would I have to get the hobby horse brand?

The Harbor Freight press would require modification. The ram would need to be bored to accept the punches, and something would need to be made to accept the anvils. Alignment is important.

Folks have done it.

There have been threads here discussing how. Sorry, but I cannot provide a link.

Maybe a site search will turn them up.

Check out this thread, third post down. Alignment is very critical.

 

Larry

Henning's Trains sells the press and a complete set of dies and anvils.

Its been about 1-1/2 years since Ahitpy purchased his TTRP press outfit. I am curious about how happy he has been with the purchase, and how the press is working out for him. Maybe he will post something about it.

    I have 4 trestle supports I am building for A double track curved 5 1/2ft. trestle. I would like to put rivets into the plastic when I make them. I looked at the press units that you folks have listed on this topic. I am not or do I have any desire to fix train engines so I don't think I need A press like what was discussed on here. I looked at the press from NWSL.com and this one seems more suited for what I am going to be doing. I have already built 2 of the trestle supports and I did not make them correct. I built the legs at 90degrees instead of having them tapered like they should be for lateral support. The NWSL site said the material should be .015 or thinner? If I use thicker material for strength I don't believe when I try to make the rivet that it will work for making that feature. I am wondering if I should make the support legs out of brass? I have A sheet metal machine shop that I know the owners so I can ask them to help me out with various projects. Thanks for any advice Choo Choo Kenny

Kenny: I think you are correct. You probably do not want a press set up for doing repairs. I have seen the presses for embossing rivet detail, and they are constructed differently.

I suggest you start a new thread for better exposure.

C.W., I believe, is referring to the NWSL Sensi-press.

Rivet detail on a scratch built Turntable.

The Riveter table allows for advancing the piece so that each rivet is spaced equally. The Aluminum clamp was fabricated. There is a set of punch/dies that has (7) different rivet sizes.

If you want to go the "super detail" route, you could get individual pieces from these folks:

 

Scale Hardware

 

Grandt Line