Ross Custom Tinplate versus Gargraves Phantom switches

This is a known issue with these switches.  The problem is the short guard rails that the shoes can catch. The solution is simple: Insert a Gargraves track pin in the open end and bend the pin down. The shoe should now ride up the newly formed ramp and not cause a derailment.

BTW, I know of other people that recommend gluing the shoe in the up position, which also solves the problem. However, the shoe then becomes non-operational.

Chris

LVHR

Steve has done a lot of work to make his switches the best in the world and they are.

Marty, I agree, they are slick and I think they are worth the money.  Where I find the shoe catching is it does not ride up and over the points as the truck is diverging. I am thinking of using a nail file and creating more of a campfer on the shoe and a little polish on the points.

I have all Ross track and switches (20) for my layout.  I run a lot of cars with sliding shoes.  I called Steve at Ross and he told me exactly how to tweak the switches.  I took a dremel, and rounded down the spots where the shoe was catching.  5 minute fix and now all my rolling stock works perfectly through the switches.

Another thing I learned about Ross switches, if you run an MTH T-1 steam engine through the switch go at a decent pace and not slow or you will short out in the switch. When I first got my new Ross switches I had to sand down some of the points in the switch, with my dremel tool, as they were very ruff, also had to remove some of the excess glue from the ties.

Where do you file down the Ross switch to accept post war or pre war sliding shoes?

Lee Fritz

I use tubular track with Ross Switches and 072 and 096 curves and the Ross Switches are the best.

Mikey

I just built my first layout with Gargraves track.  I used both Gargraves switches and Ross Switches.  I prefer the Ross switches.  I used Gargraves for their standard O42 turnouts.  The straight through section is quite a bit shorter than the equivalent Ross switch.  However, I later found out that the straight through on the Ross switch can be cut.  Because it was done, I didn't go back to see if I could get the Ross switch to fit in the space I had to work with.

What I found important (and this may be obvious to some) is the geometry of the track.  Because even the non-flexible Gargraves has some degree of flex, it is important to get the track diameters correct.  This is especially important when you are using a switch that is entered from a curve or as part of a curve.  I used a Ross O54/O72 set of switches in an O54 loop.  This gave me an O54 loop and siding that is about 5" further out on the O72 side of the switch.  I had intermittent derailing problems that had me and Steve from Ross stumped.  It turned out that the geometry was a bit off and the loop was out of round by about 1/2".  Because the switch was curved and used in a curve, it was not easy to see.  I wound up figuring out what the center to center distance should be and when I measured, found it to be off.  Once fixed, everything is smooth.

The Gargraves switches I used required a bit more work to get smooth.  The fit of the plastic pieces  with the rails is not as precise as the fit with Ross switches.  Nothing a bit of tweaking can't fix.  The negative of the Gargraves O42 switch is the plastic frog.  Combine that with wiring for non-derailing and I have a section of isolated track on the frog side of the switch that is about 6" long.  Smaller engines with rubber tires will stall due to loosing connectivity.  At some point I will change the way I do the isolated section to fix this.  If you look closely at the attached pic, you can see how I isolated for the non-derailing wiring (cuts in the frog rail about 3" from the frog).

Tony

I did more experimenting last night and have decided to commit to the O72 and #4 Ross Tinplate switches.  The Gargraves are very good, but the Ross are smoother and more substantial even though much more expensive.

Now I am agonizing over whether to go with Gargraves flex track or traditional tubular.  Why is it so hard?!  The price has really come down on the tube track since Menards started selling it.  I also can make it look good using foam road bed and rubber ties.  Is there a difference in drag on a long train between the two? Also tube is cheaper and easier to correct a mistake.  But, I kind of like the look of Gargraves, maybe because it is new to me.

Thanks for the replies, it has helped a lot.

Orrin

So first, I would not use Gargraves "flex" track for anything other than a custom curve. The standard straight and O72 curves are what you want to stick with in general.

Regarding the look, I've built a layout with tubular track, cork roadbed and rubber ties.  IMHO, Gargraves looks quite a bit better.  Whether it is worth the additional expense for the look is a question only you can answer.  Another thing to consider is the hight difference of the rails when mixing Ross and tubular, especially when adding roadbed and rubber ties.  I have not done this so maybe someone else can comment further but I would imagine there would be some additional work to get switches to be at the same hight as the tubular track.

I will agree the fixing a mistake is cheeper with tubular, but I think the effort required is about the same.

As far as drag, no idea.  I would think with using modern fast angle wheels on freight and passenger cars the drag would be similar.  MAYBE tubular would add a little drag but unless you are planning on testing the limits of the length or train you could pull, I don't think the difference would matter.

Tony

The other thing about using Gargraves track with Ross switches is the curve radius for Ross and Gargraves curves; Ross 042 is very close to exact 042 while Gargraves 042 is closer to 042.60 inches, just enough to through the diameter of the curve off when used in conjunction with a Ross switch. You may have to cut a small piece of curve track to fit into your curved section to make the curve complete.

Also Gargraves don't make an 031 curve but Ross does. Gargraves makes an 032 curve and it is closer to 032.45 inches in diameter.

Gargraves curves are a little oversize when compared to Ross curves, but they work very well. I don't have any Ross curves to compare with Gargraves but I have compared them with Ross switch sizes of 042 curve to Gargraves 042 and that is where I got my information from.

Lee Fritz

I started my layout July 1982.  I used tubular track and it is still in service today.  It has stood the test of time.  I run trains often.   Switches are Ross.  To me that has been a good combination.

Marty and others, that is why I am agonizing over it.  Both are very good.

Orrin

If you are building a layout for the long haul, Ross is the hot setup.

Jim Barrett Backshop Video Volume one shows how to take care of problems with sliding shoes and high rail switches.