Ross Regular 11 Switches, with DZ-1000 Switch Machines, Ganged together, not functioning properly.

I'm having difficulty following the diagram, but if you wire the switch machines with separate power, there should be no interaction between track power and switch operation.  I have my DZ-2500's wired with separate power, and I can operate all the switches with or without any track power on.

Yes, mine will not operate without track power on.
I just followed the instructions on the Z-Stuff diagram.
I will look again, and see if they show how to use discreet power for the switch machines.

How does Non-Derailing work without using track power?

I can't imagine how the track power is affecting the switch machine operation if you're properly wired them for separate power.

Using track power to power the switches should work but I don't do that.  I have a separate power source controlling the switch machines; the non-derailing is merely a "common" trigger to the machines to reset their position. For the DZ-1000s, your are. and must phase the transformers so the non-derailing will function.

The transition of power sources must be isolated from each other usually at the end of a switch turnout.

The Hot and Common are wired to one of the aux controls (B-U) on my ZW, but non-derailing is wired to the two Frog Rails for Straight Thru on each switch.
The diagram shows the non-derailing wired to the turn out Frog rails, but that is incorrect.

BTW, per the pic of my layout, the transition of power is between the two turnouts, where they come together,
And, as stated in the original thread, all transformers, including all 4 outputs of the ZW, have the commons wired together, and are in phase

Can the problem be that non-derailing is connected to rails on either side of the block separator, and hence to both power sources?

The isolated rails should connect to either a green or yellow wire from the switch. A train car's wheels and axles complete the path to common for the switch power supply. Track power is not needed for non-derail so back up and get the switches working without having to turn on track power. Something is crossed.

CLARIFICATION: The switches do function without track power.
It is, only, the non-derailing that will not work without track power.
I wired them up per the instructions, and as you stated.

Per my diagram:
1. Both Hot (Red) wires, from the switches, go to a bussed portion of the terminal block, along with the Hot (Red) wire which comes directly from the discreet transformer
2. The Common (Black) wire, from the controller, comes directly from the discreet transformer.
3. Both yellow wires, from the switches, go to a bussed portion of the terminal block, along with the yellow wire from the controller.
4. Both Green wires go to a second bussed portion of the terminal block, along with the green wire from the controller.
5. The long terminal blocks at the bottom of the diagram are there for all of the subsequent switches still to be installed
Unlike in the diagram:
1. The Non-Derailing wires go from each of the straight thru frog rails to the yellow side of the terminal block.
      a. This makes for 5 yellows and 3 greens on the terminal block, which is opposite my diagram.

Remove all wires from the busbar, power it up. Then attach one wire at a time until you get the non desired action. Then you know what wire(s) is the issue and you can isolate the issue, then solve.

Ed

@RWL posted:

1. The Non-Derailing wires go from each of the straight thru frog rails to the yellow side of the terminal block.
      a. This makes for 5 yellows and 3 greens on the terminal block, which is opposite my diagram.

This might be an issue if you look close at the zstuff diagram for non-derail. There is a gap between the track and frog rail so maybe you don't want to connect to that part of the switch. Can you set up a test without too much trouble and move the non-derail wire to the next piece of track and isolate that?

Those frog rails all have insulated pins connecting them to the next rail, and there is good separation between them, where they meet up with the frog. I have added a separator there.
I will double check that they are all insulated pins at the frog rails.

I agree, I check continuity on mine and they seem to be isolated. But I don't have any setup with track, facing another switch, etc. I just have to wonder why that gap is on the diagram and nothing suggest connecting to the frog rails.

Maybe time to call Steve.

@turkey_hollow_rr posted:

I agree, I check continuity on mine and they seem to be isolated. But I don't have any setup with track, facing another switch, etc. I just have to wonder why that gap is on the diagram and nothing suggest connecting to the frog rails.

Maybe time to call Steve.

I did discuss this with Steve, and this was his explanation:
That is to show what to do in cases where the frog rails are just too close together at the actual frog, to keep them separated.
When that happens you need to add insulation separation farther upstream.

@turkey_hollow_rr posted:

This might be an issue if you look close at the zstuff diagram for non-derail. There is a gap between the track and frog rail so maybe you don't want to connect to that part of the switch. Can you set up a test without too much trouble and move the non-derail wire to the next piece of track and isolate that?

Well, we have found the enemy, and he is me.
Upon a double check of those frog rails, it came to light that when I installed the second loop, I had, inadvertently, inserted metal pins at those frog rails.
I removed them and installed insulated pins and now all is as it should be.

Evidently, there was track power getting thru the ground and confusing the switch machines.

Now, for the record, I had checked and double checked, but there are a lot of new switches and track being installed.

I don't know how you guys with those huge layouts keep track of everything.

Thanks for all of the comments. In the end they just led me to do a double check of my work, and it was found to be wanting.

Awesome!  Glad it's working for you.

not sure if the DZ-1000s require installation of diodes in the non-derailing wires like the DZ-2500s.

@AlanRail posted:

not sure if the DZ-1000s require installation of diodes in the non-derailing wires like the DZ-2500s.

Maybe GRJ can speak to that.

With the DZ-1000 the diodes in the path for non-derail are just to keep the leds from flickering.

There's really nothing in the DZ-1000 that would be sensitive to voltage spikes like the DZ-2500, so I suspect Dan's analysis is correct, they're just there for the LED indicators.

I've read through the Zstuff app notes on the DZ-1000 quite often, and Ross's technical advice page on the DZ-1000.  Steve doesn't show diodes at all and Zstuff posts separate notes on non-derail without flicker.