Running 036 - How Limiting in terms of choice

With a 56 inch width, you could do an outer loop of O-48 and put all the tighter curves inboard of that loop. Then you could run big trains and small ones. Even the small ones look better on wider curves.

Stay away from 0-36 at all possible costs.Nick

I was thinking about mixing some O48 in there, but I read that it doesn't play too nicely with other curve diameters - anyone had issues with this?

I have used only O-36 for the last 5 years. I run mostly scale equipment. The only engine that I have trouble with is the hog warts starter set. 

I run a pacific, SD70ACe, gps, f3, all with no issues. You will not always be able to buy your favorite engine, but you can run lots on O36 with no issues. 

I just picked up thelionmaster challenger (not scale) and it runs great on o36. 

Can I be Captain Obvious and ask why you aren't pondering 0-54....or something close it?

In the late 1980s, I thought 0-54 was "the bomb".  Then I built my current layout around 2003-2004 with 0-72/0-64 outer and inner main lines....which I thought was all I could ever wish.  Now, I'm working on a remodel with 0-96/0-84.

Point being - 98% of the time, you're best off going as wide as you as you possibly can from the outset.

Good luck regardless!

I guess the intital issue is that Lionel Fastrack doesn't offer something in the 054 range - I believe its 048 then 063 (or something like that) - since I have already invested in a large amount of Fastrack, I'd like to stick with it if possible.

jrmertz - funny, the main engine I'm having an issue with is the Hogwarts set too!

Until about 3 years ago I ran almost exclusively on o27 curves. (My outer most main line loop had o42.)  You will be limited to more or less traditional sized engines and rolling stock, but it shouldn't put you through too much trouble.  Longer, scale passenger cars won't work on anything tighter than o42, but most other cars should work on o36 without problems.  Much of this will end up being trial and error with scale freight cars, and perhaps other folks here could be asked if a particular car will work out.  

As for locomotives, as far as I am aware anything newish will have a minimum curve listed on the box.  Large steam isn't going to be in your future with tight curves, but there are a number of smaller scale locomotives that will work just fine.  As has been suggested you may want to install one loop with wider curves to allow you to use larger engines.  Even if you want big engines you can look to Lionel's LionMaster line.  these are semi-scaled and designed to run on curves often as tight as o31.  I believe much of the rail-king line from MTH will also take tight curves.  Both my K-line and Rail-King allegheny locomotives are rated to operate on o31, though they both give me a little trouble on such tight curves.  I can not recall if they worked well on o36, but both work flawlessly on o42.  

Depending what you like to run and what you are interested in acquiring in the future the choice will vary, but 036 should be fine if your heart is not set on big, scale engines.   I will again suggest you have at least one loop with o42 or o54 around the outside, and with that you will be set to go with anything but the largest scale engines.  

I really enjoyed all that could be packed into a small space with tight curves, and if you like to run your trains and have a lot of choices in track plan with reverse loops, sidings and such, tight curves are a lot more fun in a small space.  for the longest time growing up my layout was 4x8 feet and with tight curves I had room for three loops, two reversing tracks and a small yard.  Not much room for anything else, but I liked to run the trains a lot more than worry about the scenery.  

(This all takes into consideration that you don't care if you have woefully unrealistic overhangs and the like. )

JGL

Understood, Mike! 

That said, I'd go with the 0-48 on the outer, maybe even cutting a straight section to go into the curves of the outer loop to make it run as near the edge of the layout as possible...giving yourself as much room inside the outer loop as you can.

Con for wider curves:  It might mean less room for yards and sidings.  But O-27 on O-48 helps the look.  Look at the pics of the Lionel HQ PW layout of the late 1940's.  The cars were on O-72 track.  The wide curves helps the cars look good.

It will limit your choices, for sure. But, that may be good for your wallet (I have 072; trust me, that's dangerous...)

As Roy Boy says, wider curves make things look better, but they also promote reliable operation, as they don't run equipment as near to its limits as do tighter curves.

I like the wider curves, having said that, within the wide loops there are two 036 loops, one a dog bone about 20-25- feet around and one is a dogbone ( 25-30 Ft) with a elevated reversing loop.  This loop has a Legacy GP 35 running on it because of speed control on the legacy. Just saying bigger is really good but there is NOTHING wrong with a little smaller.

Have fun

Brent

I have asked myself this question for the past 2 years while I get ready to finally start building a layout after the holidays and I'm still unsure. I don't use FasTrack, so I have more options (O31, O36, O42, O45 and O54) depending on the brand I choose. My space is 10.5x12, but I'm trying to cram as much running tracking as I can into it on 2 levels. I'm using a horseshoe layout with Atlas O45 loops on the ends and O54 curves around the back. I then have an O36 folded oval inside that to give me an over/under feature. On top is an O36 loop-to-loop. I'm seriously considering converting all but the back curves to O31 ScaleTrax to give me more space for scenery. I will not be buying any equipment that isn't rated for O31 regardless of which way I go. My trains will be fairly short (5-6 cars plus engine/tender) and be run relatively slow. My current MTH RailKing 4-6-0 steam passenger train has no trouble with O31 RealTrax curves.

I have been running exclusively O-36 Fastrack since I built my layout about 5 years ago.  Plenty of fun, and lots of trains to choose from! No derailments I can recall!

If you follow the ceiling fan globe straight down, you will note my Lionel Legacy NH SD70ACE.  It's long, but it runs fine on my O-36's!  Trains are limited to about 5 or 6 cars just because my sidings will only hold that many cars off the main line.

I do not buy MTH Premier stuff. Mostly Railking.  But I do have the Lionel above and also run a Premier GE Evo locomotive with no issues.  As is obvious, my layout is a green felt, toy style layout, designed for kids to enjoy, at only 27" off the floor.

Track plan in my small(ish) bedroom size room.  The small loop and trolley semi-circle at the bottom are MTH O31 because it fits inside O36 Fastrack, and O-31 Fastrack doesn't.

Go for it!

Ed

Hey Ed:  Do you mind if I ask where you got those nice wood/pine display shelves....the ones with the two "tracks" cut into them?  (Looks like there might be a blue comet sitting one some, on the left?)

The longer I'm in this hobby, the more I evolve. When I started it was diesel, didn't appreciate steam at all. Now, give me huge steam! And they like HUGE curves!

Not being able to ever run big steam would cause me to rethink a smaller plan.

Good Luck with your plans!

Thanks for the great replies so far - I really would like big steam one day - but I live in Manhattan, so I'm lucky to have space to make a layout at all!

Maybe an outer loop of O48 is best of both worlds? I heard that doesn't play nice with O36 due to the angles - is that true?

A limitation of O36 that I don't like is that while B-B diesels work well, the C-C diesels' axles have an unsightly overhang.

I run 0-36 super o and have enjoyed it.   I run Railking and Lionel and it doesn't bother me at all.   It you like true scale go as wide as you can. 

mikeowen17 posted:

I guess the intital issue is that Lionel Fastrack doesn't offer something in the 054 range - I believe its 048 then 063 (or something like that) - since I have already invested in a large amount of Fastrack, I'd like to stick with it if possible.

jrmertz - funny, the main engine I'm having an issue with is the Hogwarts set too!

If you like running the hogwarts I would try going wider. I have no problems with derailment of my hogwarts on switches or turns of O36 fasttrack, but you can tell it doesn't like that tight turn. I plan to go larger in the future to run that engine more. 

rockstars1989 posted:

Stay away from 0-36 at all possible costs.Nick

Why? Nothing wrong with it if that is all you have. I've never had a layout with a curve over 0-42. Never!. Could I have gone to 0-72? Sure. I had the room. $$ and desire to keep things small and simple kept me from doing this! 

I'm beginning some rather major changes to my layout. Here is how it still looks - won't look this way in the next 10 days - 2 weeks. I'm planning another tunnel on the near side of the layout with an 0-31 loop there instead of the stand-alone elevated loop. 

Outside is 0-42, inside and upper are 0-31. I run mostly Railking Imperial products, my largest being an MTH Railking Imperial Y6B 2-8-8-2. It runs beautifully on all curves. I've got several other "large" engines such as MTH Railking Scale Dash 8 and Railking Imperial ES44 diesels as well as 2-8-2 and other "large-ish" steam. While it would be nice to have a scale behemoth such as the Vision Big Boy, I don't anticipate it happening any time in the future. I don't really spend over $450-$500 max for an engine so I really don't feel limited. Only derailments are operator caused!

D500 posted:

It will limit your choices, for sure. But, that may be good for your wallet (I have 072; trust me, that's dangerous...)

As Roy Boy says, wider curves make things look better, but they also promote reliable operation, as they don't run equipment as near to its limits as do tighter curves.

 

Whenever I lament my choice of 036 curves it's because I can't run a lot of the MTH and Lionel scale size steam locomotives. On the other hand -- like D500 posted -- I'm not laying out the $700 to $800 or so it costs to get em. As far as operation goes. I'm very happy with 036 in the layout space I have to work with.

The one non-engine limitation is that most of the nice scale passenger cars are 60' or 70' and for me, simply don't look that good on 036.

Berkshire President posted:

Hey Ed:  Do you mind if I ask where you got those nice wood/pine display shelves....the ones with the two "tracks" cut into them?  (Looks like there might be a blue comet sitting one some, on the left?)

BP,

I make 'em.  I buy 3/4" pine 4" wide (actually 3 1/2"), set the table saw at 1/4" deep and rip the 2 slots.  I then dado the horizontal board into the vertical board, glue & screw. Pretty easy with a table saw. I do 8' shelves at a time, then cut to length.

Of course, they should be stained and finished. I like woodworking but hate to finish the wood! Someday...

ed

I may be boycotted for life from this forum when I mention this next item.  I run Realtrax and Fastrack on the same layout.  My father gave me a ton of Realtrax and I had 64 feet of Fastrack that I did not want to go to waste.    At this point I just want to have fun with a layout.   When my kids graduate college I'll worry about scale railroading.   My Fastrack is O-42

My layout is a 16x8 section connected to an 8x8 section to make an L shape.   I run 2 Realtrax O-42 lines and 1 Fastrack O-48 line.  I had Fastrack O-36 track but removed it for 0-48 track.  The O-48 fit well with the O-42 Realtrax.  The only problem I've encountered is with a Lionel Heritage Diesel that I purchased last year.  It didn't work on the smaller curves.  Everything else has worked fine.  I run MTH Premier and Railking diesels.    Railking diesels look really good on the smaller curves!

My home layout is all O36 Fastrack except for the outer loop which is O48 Fastrack. I used a lot of O36 switches but also some O48 and O60 switches as well. Small scale stuff works great. It also keeps my budget inline. I do not think I am missing anything but then I run what I like so I am happy. ''

Of course there are many out there that will say only use something like an O256 minimum radius curve, etc.

My layout is o27 profile tubular track. I ran a loop of 42" curves around the perimeter of my table, but I have a half circle of Marx 34" curves on that loop too. So 34" is really my max. I have one set of commuter cars that  won't run on the layout (the price was phenominal, and they can run on the club layout).

I run mostly postwar equipment, or more modern remakes, and  all of that runs fine on my layout. I also run a bit of Marx and some prewar Lionel. With a few of those items I have problems with the K-Line switches I use on the layout, but that has nothing to do with curve diameters. 

I can't imagine ever going to a train shop and not buying anything because I couldn't find anything I like that would run on 36" curves. Perhaps if you want only scale sized, modern prototype items, that could be a problem.

Run what you have to work with. If there's a local club you can join, that could give you access to  a layout with bigger curves should you end up with a few items that you can't run at home (or if you want to run longer trains than you can on your home layout)

J White

As said earlier, you will generally be better off going with the largest diameter possible. Could you grab an additional 6-8 inches of space and go up to O-60?

The perceived problems with O-48 are that one section of track is a 30 degree turn taking 3 sections to turn 90 degrees. Since most of the other Fastrack curves are 45 degrees or fractions thereof (22.5, 11.25) the O-48 "doesn't play well with the others". 

I'd say skip O48 and keep all O36, then you can get more track in there.  I run O36, and have been able to get most of the locomotives I want that'll run on it just fine.  Sure things look better on bigger curves, but like you said, you don't care how it looks running on tighter curves (Same here for me.) so keep it at O36 and get more track down.

As a fellow O36 FasTrack runner, one thing to keep in mind is how close adjoining track is.  If you keep to the FasTrack standard of 6" center to center you won't have any problems, even on O36, but get track closer than that you might have some issues.  I have a Railking Cab Forward, runs great on O36, but the cab has some serious overhang and will take out anything on the next track over on a curve, unless you are at the 6" center spacing.

I have a Cab Forward, Big Boy, Allegheny, Hudson, DL-109, Camelback, GP38-2, 0-6-0T, B6sb, Mikado, Ten Wheeler, HHP-8, GG1, EP-5, Berkshire, and FT that all run just peachy on O36, so there is no shortage of locomotive choices.

Mike,

   Try to run the largest curves you can in your outside loop and then run your 036 inside it, then run the RealTrax 031 inside the FasTrack 036, in this way you can run many different kinds of engines and trains on different loop sizes, in the space that your have available.  This is what I do on my multi level Christmas layout and it works very very well.

PCRR/Dave

I think it is worth it to have a circuit that is O-48 or larger, even if the rest is O-36.   Its great to run O-36, but I enjoy watching trains go around wider curves even more - it adds another element of pleasure for me.

PCRR/Dave:  Love your Christmas layout.

By chance, did you model that after one that was featured in OGRR or CTT last year?  (Three loops around the Christmas Tree....or something along those lines?)

Regardless, great, great Christmas tree layout!

Obviously, we all have our opinions....and we should all run what makes us happy.  There is no right or wrong answer, per se.

But, FWIW, when I had a temporary layout up while my current one was under construction....and only had my K-Line Hudson to run in TMCC...I thought that simply using 0-42 instead of 0-36 or smaller made a big difference, to me at least.  

And 0-42 fits a 4'x8' piece of plywood very nicely.   (If you can find 5' wide plywood, that just begs for 0-60 on the outside.)

I have made 42" fast track loops with 1/2 36 followed by 48" 4, 1/2 36 and 3, 48s

Bill

mikeowen17 posted:

I was thinking about mixing some O48 in there, but I read that it doesn't play too nicely with other curve diameters - anyone had issues with this?

90 degrees is 90 degrees. You can mix curve sizes. Where it can get sticky is if you try to mix them within the same curved section. You could make a very asymmetrical circle using Curve #1 all 036, Curve #2 all 048, Curve #3 all 060, and Curve #4 all 072. The trick will be to select the correct mix of straights to connect these four curved sections together.

(If you can find 5' wide plywood, that just begs for 0-60 on the outside.)NO, it will not be supported very well. Need to think of floor collisions! 

mikeowen17 posted:

I guess the intital issue is that Lionel Fastrack doesn't offer something in the 054 range - I believe its 048 then 063 (or something like that) - since I have already invested in a large amount of Fastrack, I'd like to stick with it if possible.

jrmertz - funny, the main engine I'm having an issue with is the Hogwarts set too!

It may be the gauge of the wheels on the pilot truck on the Hogwart's engine. 1.08"-1.12" on the inside flange to flange.

You have plenty of width and shouldn't have any issues with 036. I get some wheel bind with the 8 driver berk jr. from the Polar Express set. It's there, but only slightly. It's enough to mess with low speeds in the 036 curves.

dgauss posted:

(If you can find 5' wide plywood, that just begs for 0-60 on the outside.)NO, it will not be supported very well. Need to think of floor collisions! 

To each their own.  There are many ways of working around this.

For decades now, I have been using 5' x 5' Baltic Birch Plywood (in 1/2", no less) that works very, very well.  (It's also very easy to add material to the edges to make it wider if need be.  For example, if you add 3" strips to each side, you can run 0-63.)

Granted, it's hard to find sometimes....but I won't use anything else.  It's also much lighter and stronger than regular 3/4 inch 4'x8' sheets of plywood.

Birkshire President,

    Thanks much for the nice complement, and no sir, I do my own design engineering, you may have seem my last years Christmas layout in the OGR stuff however.  It seems to be floating around other places also, for some reason.  

Merry Christmas!

PCRR/Dave