Running TMCC Engines with DCS Issues

Can you run them using the Lionel remote?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Can you run them using the Lionel remote?

I do not have the Lionel remote. Just two MTH DCS remotes. 

First thing i would recommend is trying to get them to work properly on the conventional track w/out the TIU. Make sure the TMCC locos are in the "run" mode, not "program" mode. I've made that mistake before and it will cause them to run erratically.

If you're going to run TMCC stuff, I "strongly" recommend you have at least one TMCC remote as well.  There are certain operations that can't be done through the DCS remote.

Mark,

I even have a second ground wire hooked up directly to the power strip that is my Proto/TMCC track (first one being to the TIU Fixed Voltage Output) as an added measure

Where exactly is the second wire connected? Is this the "one wire" from the command base that's connected to an earth ground? If so, remove it.

Lionel Delaware & Hudson RS-11 with TMCC and Odyssey.

This engine will run but it jerks forward every few seconds while running and just takes off on its own and I cannot control the engine in any way.

This sounds like either an engine problem, or weak TMCC signal strength, perhaps due to the wiring anomaly I alluded to above.

Lionel Southern Pacific JC Penny MU Interurban Car with TMCC

Completely dead in the water. All it does is sit and light up. No sound or response to any command I give it.

This sounds like an issue due to the incorrect entry of the engine's TMCC address.

Lionel Lionmaster New York Central 5418 Hudson with TMCC and Odyssey

This is the engine I have had the most luck with. I have managed to get it to blow the whistle and ring its bell along some stationary startup sounds and lighting up. When running it, it will go however slow or fast it wants to go on its own with only my commands having a severely limited influence on how it performs. Most of the time when running in forward or reverse, it will just randomly stop and be dead in the water no matter what section of track it is on.

This sounds like weak TMCC signal strength, perhaps due to the wiring anomaly I alluded to above.

I just started running TMCC locomotives with my DCS system (just bought a TMCC command base). They all run fine. It sounds like you have a TMCC signal issue. Make sure that the one wire from the TMCC command base is only connected to the track ground wires and nothing else. Since multiple locomotives are having issues I bet there is a problem with your wiring. 

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Mark,

I even have a second ground wire hooked up directly to the power strip that is my Proto/TMCC track (first one being to the TIU Fixed Voltage Output) as an added measure

Where exactly is the second wire connected? Is they the "one wire" from the command base that's connected to an earth ground? If so, remove it.

Lionel Delaware & Hudson RS-11 with TMCC and Odyssey.

This engine will run but it jerks forward every few seconds while running and just takes off on its own and I cannot control the engine in any way.

This sounds like either an engine problem, or weak TMCC signal strength, perhaps due to the wiring anomaly I alluded to above.

Lionel Southern Pacific JC Penny MU Interurban Car with TMCC

Completely dead in the water. All it does is sit and light up. No sound or response to any command I give it.

This sounds like an issue due to the incorrect entry of the engine's TMCC address.

Lionel Lionmaster New York Central 5418 Hudson with TMCC and Odyssey

This is the engine I have had the most luck with. I have managed to get it to blow the whistle and ring its bell along some stationary startup sounds and lighting up. When running it, it will go however slow or fast it wants to go on its own with only my commands having a severely limited influence on how it performs. Most of the time when running in forward or reverse, it will just randomly stop and be dead in the water no matter what section of track it is on.

This sounds like weak TMCC signal strength, perhaps due to the wiring anomaly I alluded to above.

The first ground wire that I originally installed goes from the TMCC Command Base to the Firm Voltage Output 1 connector as my earth ground on the MTH TIU (this is the track I run DCS on and want to run TMCC as well). The second ground wire goes from the TMCC Command Base also but instead goes to a power strip that powers the track on the DCS/TMCC trackage I run on my layout. I installed the second wire to see if it would improve performance but it unfortunately didn’t change a thing. The TIU and Command Base are both situated underneath the layout below the control panel area as there is not enough space to accommodate both plus my Z4000 transformer on top. 

Lou1985 posted:

I just started running TMCC locomotives with my DCS system (just bought a TMCC command base). They all run fine. It sounds like you have a TMCC signal issue. Make sure that the one wire from the TMCC command base is only connected to the track ground wires and nothing else. Since multiple locomotives are having issues I bet there is a problem with your wiring. 

Regarding the possible signal issue, where is your command base located at on the layout? Mine is underneath the table directly under the control panel. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

If you're going to run TMCC stuff, I "strongly" recommend you have at least one TMCC remote as well.  There are certain operations that can't be done through the DCS remote.

Will the Lionel Cab-1L Legacy remote work with an older TMCC command base or would I have to find an earlier remote? 

Nope, you'll need the old CAB1 with the whip antenna.

TrainMasterMark posted:

Lou1985 posted:

I just started running TMCC locomotives with my DCS system (just bought a TMCC command base). They all run fine. It sounds like you have a TMCC signal issue. Make sure that the one wire from the TMCC command base is only connected to the track ground wires and nothing else. Since multiple locomotives are having issues I bet there is a problem with your wiring. 

Regarding the possible signal issue, where is your command base located at on the layout? Mine is underneath the table directly under the control panel. 

Both the TIU and TMCC command base are on a shelf under my layout's control panel. I have common ground wiring so the commons off the TIU variable 1 and 2 outputs (the two outputs connected to each main line on my layout) are connected together with the wire from the command base and the wire going to the track. That's the only place the TMCC base is connected to the layout wiring. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Nope, you'll need the old CAB1 with the whip antenna.

I will have to look into that more for better results. Thank you!

Lou1985 posted:

TrainMasterMark posted:

Lou1985 posted:

I just started running TMCC locomotives with my DCS system (just bought a TMCC command base). They all run fine. It sounds like you have a TMCC signal issue. Make sure that the one wire from the TMCC command base is only connected to the track ground wires and nothing else. Since multiple locomotives are having issues I bet there is a problem with your wiring. 

Regarding the possible signal issue, where is your command base located at on the layout? Mine is underneath the table directly under the control panel. 

Both the TIU and TMCC command base are on a shelf under my layout's control panel. I have common ground wiring so the commons off the TIU variable 1 and 2 outputs (the two outputs connected to each main line on my layout) are connected together with the wire from the command base and the wire going to the track. That's the only place the TMCC base is connected to the layout wiring. 

Here is my control panel and my current DCS and TMCC set up directly underneath. The green wires are the ground wires that have been installed for proper TMCC function with DCS.

Shown in this photo above is the second green ground wire that has been run from the TMCC command base to the ground end of the power strip that powers the Proto/DCS track on my layout. This wire was installed as an experiment to see if performance would improve for my Lionel engines. This wire can be removed if necessary for correcting the issues at hand or if not needed for operation.

In the above image, The first green ground wire runs from the TMCC Command Base to the "Fixed DCS Output 1" negative ground connector. The second one runs from the Command Base to the ground end of the power strip shown above. I also have the cable that allows the MTH TIU and Lionel TMCC Command Base to "talk" with each other as shown above.

The photo (above left) shows the main wires from the Z4000 transformer connecting to the "Fixed Voltage Input 1" end of the MTH DCS TIU. The other image (above right) give a better look at the first green ground wire running from the TMCC Command Base to the Fixed DCS Output 1 connector on the MTH DCS TIU.

When you say "power strip," do you mean the actual 110 volt power strip or the terminal strip that your low voltage wires are connected to?

RAK posted:

When you say "power strip," do you mean the actual 110 volt power strip or the terminal strip that your low voltage wires are connected to?

It’s a terminal strip. 

Do you have the tmcc/dcs cable connecting the two systems. This is extremely important because you can add the locomotives to the TIU but they will not respond because the two systems are not comunicating

Plus when you have your systeam on do any lights light up on the base. It sounds weird but I have done it many times make sure all the wires and plugs are tight.

rugsy3 posted:

Do you have the tmcc/dcs cable connecting the two systems. This is extremely important because you can add the locomotives to the TIU but they will not respond because the two systems are not comunicating

I do and they are connected. 

rugsy3 posted:

Plus when you have your systeam on do any lights light up on the base. It sounds weird but I have done it many times make sure all the wires and plugs are tight.

The green light lights up for power. And the red light blinks every time I press a button or throttle up or down on my dcs remote for a command. 

Is your layout set in powerblocks. The thing I have learned with tmcc locomotives is that sometimes the signal is terrible. If you don't have powerblocks the signal can be bad. Just this past week I had my pennsy t1 at my club I take it to my train club it won't run no matter what i do and they do not have powerblocks it does not want to run. Then I bring it home and set it on my layout that has power blocks and it runs just fine.

rugsy3 posted:

Is your layout set in powerblocks. The thing I have learned with tmcc locomotives is that sometimes the signal is terrible. If you don't have powerblocks the signal can be bad. Just this past week I had my pennsy t1 at my club I take it to my train club it won't run no matter what i do and they do not have powerblocks it does not want to run. Then I bring it home and set it on my layout that has power blocks and it runs just fine.

 

I do have powerblocks on my layout. I have them for my sidings to park locomotives as well as for running my DCS system effectively (in which two trains are not running in the same block for example)   

Any chance the DCS/TMCC cable is connected backwards?  

I have been connecting the two on my portable setups for years with no problems, but when I got my current Super O layout working the TMCC locomotives would not run in command mode.  I had connected the DCS/TMCC cable backwards (foolishly-because it is labeled).  

Installing the cable correctly fixed everything.

Is the outlet that the TMCC Command Base power supply is plugged in to properly grounded? 

I ran into this at the Pasadena Convention center over 10 years ago-their three-prong outlets were not properly grounded and TMCC would not work.

RAK posted:

Any chance the DCS/TMCC cable is connected backwards?  

I have been connecting the two on my portable setups for years with no problems, but when I got my current Super O layout working the TMCC locomotives would not run in command mode.  I had connected the DCS/TMCC cable backwards (foolishly-because it is labeled).  

Installing the cable correctly fixed everything.

 

Is the outlet that the TMCC Command Base power supply is plugged in to properly grounded? 

I ran into this at the Pasadena Convention center over 10 years ago-their three-prong outlets were not properly grounded and TMCC would not work.

 

 

 

The DCS and TMCC cable is installed the correct way as it is labeled on both ends. I’m pretty sure the outlet for the base is properly grounded but I’ll have to double check to be sure. I just bought another unused and like new TMCC Command Base with a Cab-1 Remote on Ebay earlier today on the possibility I may have gotten a faulty command base. 

Update: The new TMCC remote and command base set I bought brand new came in and works well with my dcs system. My Lionmaster Hudson runs normally again like it should. So it seems that the first base I got despite its condition was faulty. Thanks to everyone who provided valuable advice and tips to finding the problem of this issue.  

Glad you figured it out. I will say I find TMCC engines to be more responsive to throttle changes from a CAB-1 vs the DCS remote. Not a huge difference but slightly noticeable none the less. That being said I've been running everything from the DCS remote, especially when I have a TMCC and DCS locomotive running at the same time. 

I was interested in your two TMCC wire connections.  I have only one wire going from my Legacy base to one of my TIU output jacks and that works without issues on all three levels of my layout. Like you, I utilize my Lionel handhelds even though they could all run via my DCS system and I did that before I went from TMCC to Legacy.  I use my DCS handhelds for my DCS controlled trains (Kline and Lionel converted as well as MTH engines) and Legacy handhelds for Legacy engines, and CAB1s for my TMCC operating cars (ERR converted.)

While waiting for the updated 50-1032, TMCC/Legacy cable for my DCS TIU-L Rev.  I am hoping it will resolve my Cab-1L problem.  

Out of curiosity, my Base-1L track wire was connected to the terminal Blocks.  Track side.  Legacy and DCS engines worked fine with either Remotes & WIU iPhone.  Until I had to change and update my WIFI that had problems.  After researching in ORG Forum , Barry's DCS 3rd Edition & Youtube, there is 2 way's to connect the Track wire.

I added a 2nd wire from the Base Track connection to the Fixed (black) Out 1&2 TIU.  I thought, this is either redundant or increase antenna signal.

Could this cause any problems?

The second wire isn't doing anything useful.

@Missabe posted:

"While waiting for the updated 50-1032, TMCC/Legacy cable for my DCS TIU-L Rev.  I am hoping it will resolve my Cab-1L problem.  

Out of curiosity, my Base-1L track wire was connected to the terminal Blocks.  Track side.  Legacy and DCS engines worked fine with either Remotes & WIU iPhone.  Until I had to change and update my WIFI that had problems.  After researching in ORG Forum , Barry's DCS 3rd Edition & Youtube, there is 2 way's to connect the Track wire.

I added a 2nd wire from the Base Track connection to the Fixed (black) Out 1&2 TIU.  I thought, this is either redundant or increase antenna signal."

Maybe if your TIU outputs are not connected in common anywhere, like having two isolated loops?

Gunrunner,  I just received the replacement 50-1032 cable.  It is the exact same cable I purchased 10 years ago.  L 2"X W 1" X D 3/4"rounded & no corners.  It's not even close to MTH Picture of the 50-1032 in product catalog.

Was there ever an up date?

Will this old style cable work?

I can't find my Legacy version, I have the old TMCC cable that sounds like what you have.