Rust Belt 1966 to 1976

@CA John

This is such great historical information and background.  I think it would be so cool to try to replicate a small portion of the Cadillac Clark Street Plant and now I clearly know what was produced there.  I visited the Penn Central engine terminal just off of Livernois and John Kronk a lot.   I have never been able to get a definitive answer if the correct name for the yard is Livernois Yard, Junction Yard or West Detroit Yard.  I've heard and seen all three used.

Your plant a few hundred yard away is super interesting.  Clearly NYC/PC had trackage to the plant.  I own an amazing map of the yard and your plant was essentially situated at the East/North end of that yard and a huge junction (West Detroit).  From my map and Morning Sun Books, "Trackside around Detroit and Windsor 1943-1976 with Emery Gulash" pp. 68 to 76, Wabash (N&W, C&O and Grand Trunk (D&TSL), DT&I/CP) all had trackage or trackage rights to or directly past the plant.  In the MS book there are pictures of C&O GPs pulling or delivering cars to the plant.  Also, if you've never seen the book, some great pictures of the plant around the time you would have worked there.

Thanks for all the info, please share more or anything you would like.  Jim

Images of my map of the East End of the yard.

@Jon Stachowicz

Does anything look familiar? (sorry for lousy picture of my old prints)

Detroit, nice pics.. I do remember the high hood GP units still in NW livery.  Also, CP ran Alcos--I think RS27s?  The Alcos occasionally pulled Triple Crown roadrailer trains 528 and 529 to and from Toronto.   Pretty cool to see and again I regret not taking pics.   Prior to moving to our own terminal, our facility was shared with the Detroit Regional Distribution Center (DRDC).  At DRDC, carloads of auto parts were brought in and reloaded on to semi trailers for final delivery to the local auto plants.  Needless to say it was a pretty busy place.  

A Penn Central freight passes through a typical rust belt city:

Tom

Experimenting with track, control and longer trains, 100% Rust Belt.

Would love to have OGR members from anywhere but especially Pittsburgh or Cleveland share photos from period or what they've done with their layouts to re-create a unique industrial scene from that city.  Anyone ever try to do something with Whisky Island in O gauge?

Tom - I do remember seeing those PC truck trailers in the Philly area growing up - Penn Central was EVERYWHERE you turned - couldn’t throw a stick without hitting something Penn Central 😊👍🏼

Penn Central #8623 EMD SW8 (N. Smith - Lionel special run) dropping off a few coal cars.

@dorfj2 posted:

Tom - I do remember seeing those PC truck trailers in the Philly area growing up - Penn Central was EVERYWHERE you turned - couldn’t throw a stick without hitting something Penn Central 😊👍🏼

Imagine my delight when I saw this sitting in a parking lot in Van Wert, Ohio a couple years ago.

Alas, the property has sold and the trailers have been moved to an unknown location.

Tom

dorfj2--I remember a family vacation 50 summers ago visiting relatives in the Philly area and I do remember seeing a lot of Penn Central...

Tom, cool pic of the PC trailer.. Thanks for posting! 

Good Evening Everyone,

Here are my memories/experiences from a different perspective of the Rust Belt era.

After my USAF service was over in 1971,  I worked undercover for the Pinkerton Agency(got the job due to my Top Secret clearance from the USAF).   Didn't really enjoy that line of work,  so in Jan 1973,  I hired on at the US Steel Homestead Works as a laborer in No 1 machine shop,  more commonly/widely known as "The Big Shop".    When I started work,   there were still 10,000 employees at the Homestead Works.    We were part of Central Maintenance and did a lot of the heavy repair/overhaul/machining for all of US Steel's plants up & down the Mon River valley.   There were also 2 additional machine shops inside our plant,  No 2 and No 3.   Those shops did production/contract work for outside firms including the US Navy.   After a year,  I applied for and received a spot in the machinist apprenticeship program.   In theory,  we would have 1-2 weeks of classroom and then 6-7 weeks in the shop working in an area that we had just studied.   That went out the window after about 6 months.   Finally in 1979 after 5 years and 8,500 hours of classroom,  testing,  and ojt,  I was awarded my Journeyman Certificate which carried me for the rest of my working career

The experience working there was incredible.   We not only worked in our shop,  but also worked "in the field" meaning we worked on the site where there was a problem/repair or overhaul needed.   When your shift started,  the first thing you did was to look at the lineup board to see what/where you were working on that day.(that was one of the best things as part of Central Maintenance-we never did the same thing day after day)   I will never forget the first time I went into the field to OH5(open hearth furnace #5).   After signing in to the foremans office and getting our locks/tags we went into the main arena.   As a rookie(you had a white reflective tape on your helmet so everyone knew) you were under the guidance of an old timer from your shop to keep you out of trouble.   Once in the main floor area,  I was TERRIFIED-everything was moving and it was LOUD.   The overhead crane was carrying a ladle of molten steel,  a furnace was being tapped and the molten steel was running through a channel dug in the ground then over a cliff into a waiting ladle,   giant Euclid dump trucks were hauling slag away,  diesels were pulling slag cars away and the whole time bells,  sirens,  and whistles were going off.   This was just one of many experiences -I could go on for hours.

I wish I would have been able to take photos of many of the areas that I worked in,  including my shop.   However during that time frame,   photography was strictly forbidden except for company photographers.   Getting caught with a camera meant being fired-even our union couldn't help(and our union was one of the most radical/progressive in the country-Local 1397).   However on the 3-11 shift or 11-7 shift,  there weren't as many bigwigs or stoolies around.   So here are a few photos I managed to take in the mid 70's without getting fired.   I TOOK ALL THE PHOTOS.   I was in the last machinist class at Homestead to receive Journeyman papers and I'll be 77 next month and sadly most of my co-workers/buddies in these photos are passed away.   Couple photos show using a 300 ton horizontal press to press bevel gears in place on a lineshaft.   Another photo shows my buddies Howard and Rich burning an inner bearing race from a lineshaft.   A few other photos show our little Xmas party at work.   I'm standing in front of the shop van in one photo and my buddies Howard and Rich are in the other photo.   Sorry for being so long winded and hope you enjoy the photos.

@metalman

Thanks for sharing, what an amazing story.  If you run across any of the photos you did take, please share.  If and when you have time please share any other stories or experiences you had while working at USS or interesting information about rail operations in and out of any of the facilities you worked at.

Did you ever get over to the Zug Island operations in Detroit?

It's not United States Steel, I do have the two MTH USS coil cars, several of Pat's Trains Weirton Steel Coil Cars, tons of others but it's the closest I have pictures of to follow on the steel themed discussion.

This is a great topic.. .Let's keep it going!

Here is some more info about some of the railroad operations that were ongoing while I worked at the Homestead Works.   Homestead had its own interplant railroad and repair/maintenance shop.   The interplant railroad consisted of both standard gauge and narrow gauge (but for the life of me I can't recall what size the gauge was).   The standard gauge diesels locomotives consisted of GE center cab 100 tonners,  EMD switchers of various models,  and HK Porter center cab 65 or 80 tonners. These standard gauge engines were operated normally with the engineer in the cab. The narrow gauge diesels were a combination of Vulcan/Davenport 25 tonners that were operated by the engineer/operator using remote control with the engineer/operator walking along side the engine or riding the footboards. He generally worked by himself.   These narrow gauge engines were used a lot at the stripper for moving the ingot buggies around or at the carpenter shop,  pattern shop,  babbit shop, etc. The Union Railroad also played a major role working in and around the Homestead plant as it interchanged with Conrail,  Chessie,  and P&LE.

The most enjoyable time I ever had working at Homestead out of the Big Shop was the time I spent an entire summer working in the Homestead railroad repair/maintenance shop.   Back then,  no matter what shop/department you worked in,   once you gained enough seniority you became eligible for 13 weeks vacation.   Well this particular summer,  almost half the employees of the railroad repair shop were eligible and took their 13 weeks.   Even with US Steel offering to pay their vacation plus paying them to work(instead of taking vacation which meant you would make double time),  everyone wanted their time off.   So the call went out to the Big Shop for volunteers to work in the railroad shop for the summer-I couldn't volunteer fast enough-LOL.   It was great-nobody bothered us.   Our boss checked that we were there in the morning,  checked at lunchtime and then at the end of the day.   That was another bennie-it was all daylight,  7-3.   As far as the work,  we worked on the HK Porter center cab 65/80 tonners.   The engines had just com back from an overhaul/rebuild from an outside contractor and our job was to install the engines back in the chassis and get them lined up square with the generators.   We first set the engines in the chassis and then fixed them in place using fitted precision machined dowel pins in reamed holes.   Then the rest of the bolts were tightened down to secure the engine.   We then had to precisely align the coupling on the generator inlet shaft with the coupling on the engine crankshaft.   This was done using the correct sizes of shims under the generator mounting brackets.   Once aligned,  we tightened all the generator bolts.   There were other items that needed done but those were mostly electrical which was not our specialty.  It was a great feeling when the engine rolled out of the shop under power after our work was done.   The railroad shop foreman even allowed me to run the engine in and out of the shop-I was in heaven.   Then that party was over too soon and it was back to my home shop.

@metalman posted:

Here is some more info about some of the railroad operations that were ongoing while I worked at the Homestead Works.

Fascinating stuff, Nick! Thanks for all the time and effort you have devoted to sharing your story here. Great photos, too!

Poor track conditions limit the speed of this Penn Central freight:

Tom

@metalman

Nick - Pictures were awesome, it does take you back to the 1970s.  All pictures that have been shared are so incredible when they provide sense of scale of facilities or equipment.  When I first looked at the Christmas Tree in the shop my mind was that's a nice 6 footer, then looking closer realized with the men in the foreground it's more like 50' and that's just in the backshop.  Someone needs to do a replica of the Big Shop van.  Please keep sharing as you have time about you work or anything else you want.  Jim

Good Morning Everyone,

@DETROIT

Thanks for starting this thread.   It has brought back a flood of memories/experiences from my distant past.   You're correct-it is hard to visualize the size/scale of the machinery,  tools and equipment used until taking a look at the size of the people and comparing them with the surroundings.   I have a few more photos but haven't been able to find them-things get moved around a lot after 50 years!   I have only been to Detroit once and am not familiar with Zug island so I'll have to do a search on it.

@Allan Miller

Thanks for the kind words.   You know how it is with us older guys-we love to sit around and storytell with a little embellishment.   I would have loved to taken more photos back then but had to balance the risk/reward part.

I'll have a few more stories later on.

PLEASE POST anything Rust Belt you have.  From your layout, collection, real world archive, life experiences.  My collection is very automotive and steel heavy.  As you can see, what I have now is not highly sophisticated but I hope this thread can build community around interest in modeling this region.  Point being, no matter where one is in the hobby, your contributions are welcomed.  Jim

@DETROIT posted:

@metalman

Did you ever get over to the Zug Island operations in Detroit?

Jim,

I had never heard of Zug Island before you mentioned it.   I looked it up ,  did some reading and WOW,   what a history that place has that continues on today.   It has both a good/bad legacy like many rust belt sites.   If anyone has a little time,  I recommend reading about Zug Island.

Good Afternoon Everyone,

Here are a some custom cars that I've done over the past few years that would've been appropriate in the rust belt time frame.   Some of these have been posted before,  so I apologize for that.

Lionel Boxcar #9201 from 1970 in jade green

I hope everyone is putting a great Labor Day bow on Summer, train season is coming!  Please post.

Several videos for the Brotherhood of Railroad Workers past and present.

@DETROIT posted:

I hope everyone is putting a great Labor Day bow on Summer, train season is coming!  Please post.

Several videos for the Brotherhood of Railroad Workers past and present.

Better get the front truck of that PC caboose back on the rails before there's an "incident".   LOL

@metalman it's the Penn Central, I was trying to be super prototypical, the caboose was getting ready to derail and cause a wreck. 

Nick,

Where did you get the MESTA rolling mill that is on the Union flatcar?

My grandfather was a Patternmaker at MESTA Machine Co., Homestead, PA.

Dave

While we don't have large industrial buildings in this photo, small areas of support industries were always around the large factories. These too made up some of the rust belt  I am modeling in the 50's to run both steam and diesel. As an industrial boiler salesman for forty years, I saw may areas like this in upstate New York and Vermont around principal industries like GE and other major factories.

I grew up in Youngstown and worked at the Briar Hill Open Hearth.  I worked as a Second and Third helper and eventually became a break man on the narrow gauge RR at Youngstown Sheet & Tube.  I had two Uncles who worked on the P&LE.  My Uncle Max (Carl) Hartman did paperwork in the P&LE tower building and my Uncle Bud (Clarence) Hartman worked as a Break Man and conductor. The mill would bring the iron bottles from the Blast Furnace in Campbell down to the Briar Hill Open Hearth.  My Uncle Bud was normally the conductor on those runs.  If I had a break between heats I would go over to the iron ladles and my Uncle and I would talk in the caboose while he filled out his paperwork as they switched the bottles in and out.  If I was working upstairs we would run the limestone, iron ore, scrap, and dolomite out on the floor for the charging machines to charge the furnaces.  If I was working in the Pit, we would run the molds in and out of the pouring floors.  If the mold were poured, we would run them out to the stripper crane and then into the blooming mill.  I was fun but hot and dirty work but it payed well.

@Dtrainmaster posted:

Nick,

Where did you get the MESTA rolling mill that is on the Union flatcar?

My grandfather was a Patternmaker at MESTA Machine Co., Homestead, PA.

Dave

Good Morning Dave,

I purchased the stacked herringbone gears from a company called Multiscale Digital LLC about 4 or 5 years ago.   It was originally in HO scale but I asked to have it upscaled to O scale which they did.   I added the Mesta lettering with small plastic letters from a craft store.   Unfortunately,  Multiscale closed their own website earlier this year and moved everything to Shapeways and now Shapeways is also gone as we knew it.   Wish I had better news.

My girlfriend's father also worked at Mesta as a machinist until 1977 when he had to retire on disability.

About 20 years ago,  I attended an auction at the estate of Edward Mesta(a great nephew of George Mesta-founder of Mesta Machine).   I purchased a group of a series of photographs from the 1959 Nikita Kruschev visit of Mesta-these are from the family collection and there are no copyrights on them.   I will try to scan/copy them and post them here even though it's a little earlier than the 1966 time frame.   In 1959 the Steelworkers were on strike but Mesta was working because at the time they were still a non union company due to the favorable treatment of it's workers most of the time.   About 6-7 years after the strike and the death of the company president,   new management took over and the workers unionized.   Sorry for rambling

@Big Ken posted:

I grew up in Youngstown and worked at the Briar Hill Open Hearth.  I worked as a Second and Third helper and eventually became a break man on the narrow gauge RR at Youngstown Sheet & Tube.  I had two Uncles who worked on the P&LE.  My Uncle Max (Carl) Hartman did paperwork in the P&LE tower building and my Uncle Bud (Clarence) Hartman worked as a Break Man and conductor. The mill would bring the iron bottles from the Blast Furnace in Campbell down to the Briar Hill Open Hearth.  My Uncle Bud was normally the conductor on those runs.  If I had a break between heats I would go over to the iron ladles and my Uncle and I would talk in the caboose while he filled out his paperwork as they switched the bottles in and out.  If I was working upstairs we would run the limestone, iron ore, scrap, and dolomite out on the floor for the charging machines to charge the furnaces.  If I was working in the Pit, we would run the molds in and out of the pouring floors.  If the mold were poured, we would run them out to the stripper crane and then into the blooming mill.  I was fun but hot and dirty work but it payed well.

Great stuff Ken!

I hated those charging machines at Open Hearth #5 at the USS Homestead Works!   They were always needing work/repair due to the environment they operated in.   When the call went out to #1 machine shop to OH5 to work on one of them,  I dreaded seeing my name on the call board to go there.   The OH5 guys would "bank" the furnace in front of the charging machine that was broke-meaning the furnace was "turned down" to only 1100-1400 degrees.   But the furnaces on either side of it would be at 2300-2500 degrees if they were doing a heat.   Even in our protective suits,  we could only work maybe 1/2 hour before needing to step away for a bit.   Always had our salt tablets handy also as you needed to take them.   And you're absolutely right-working in an open hearth area was hot,  dirty,  and dangerous work but the pay was good.   Most people don't have a clue what it's like to earn a living in that environment.

Some more rust belt stuff. This is New Haven Connecticut on my layout. The factory is the Connecticut Hard Rubber Plant where my father-in-law was head of Quality Control until he retired in 1978. The smaller building in the foreground houses the coal fired steam boilers for the factory. The products made by CHR were used in aerospace programs and in the F-16 and F-18 fighter aircraft. The company was sold to St Gobain in 1999 and in moved from that location in 2003 to their Hoosick Falls NY plant  and the building was demolished in 2017. The factory model was a scratch build by Stu Gralnik of Model Building Services. Stu also erected the boiler plant building and I assembled the steam boilers and piping in the building. The steam boilers along with their building are Crow River Products kits out of the Boston area.

USAF 4th Tac FS

@Bill Park posted:

Some more rust belt stuff. This is New Haven Connecticut on my layout. The factory is the Connecticut Hard Rubber Plant where my father-in-law was head of Quality Control until he retired in 1978. The smaller building in the foreground houses the coal fired steam boilers for the factory. The products made by CHR were used in aerospace programs and in the F-16 and F-18 fighter aircraft. The company was sold to St Gobain in 1999 and in moved from that location in 2003 to their Hoosick Falls NY plant  and the building was demolished in 2017. The factory model was a scratch build by Stu Gralnik of Model Building Services. Stu also erected the boiler plant building and I assembled the steam boilers and piping in the building. The steam boilers along with their building are Crow River Products kits out of the Boston area.

USAF 4th Tac FS

Bill,

That's a great looking layout you have there.   That CHR plant/powerhouse ain't too shabby either!   I had never heard of CHR before your post so I did a little digging and read a bit about the company history.   That is quite a company story and a fine reputation.   And boy did you hit the nail on the head in your earlier post with the comment about smaller local support companies sprouting up around the major factories/industries.   Right down to the local bars,  restaurants,   clothing/shoe stores etc.   It's a snapshot in time  that's all but disappeared.   By the way,  hats off to another USAF vet!

@Bill Park  Factory is great looking and much more interesting with the history!  I see what looks like a lot of very cool layout in the background.  Please share more pictures of your layout as you have time.  Jim

Here are a couple of photos that I took of a typical USS Homestead Works ingot car or ingot buggy as we called them.   This buggy has been restored and is on display at the intersection of 8th  Ave and the Homestead Hi Level Bridge(now called the Homestead Grays Bridge) in Homestead, Pa.   It's narrow gauge with basic bronze split bushings(journals) on the axles inward of the wheels.   When new,  the bushings had grease grooves machined into them.   These lined up with the grease fittings mounted in the journal boxes and were thoroughly packed with grease.   After going into service,   they were lucky to have another shot of grease ever shot into them again!   I remember seeing some axles riding in the journal boxes because there were no bushings left.  There were also many buggies that didn't have bronze bushings-they had the old style babbit bearings that were poured into the journal boxes and then machined-like on the old Model T's.    Of course,  the fancy side plates  with the Homestead lettering got destroyed on many of the buggies after years of use/abuse.

Sort of a panorama of one side of my layout. We are in the early 50's with plenty of old buildings and manufacturing. This video starts in Roscoe NY on the O&W and progresses toward Scranton Pa where the line progresses through the City of Scranton and loops back on itself. The entire track plan is just one loop with reverse loops on each end, passing sidings, 2 main yards and two elevation changes each way. I have run up to four trains at once with a Legacy system maintaining a two and a half minute space between trains. 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/y3kpu7JXCqEnHXZD6

The New Haven side of my layout. The engine is an MTH 2-10-4 running conventionally. There is no substitute for how well speed is maintained running on Legacy.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wTnpkMW4nrvRP1816

Dtrainmaster,

"Where did you get the MESTA rolling mill that is on the Union flatcar?"

That railcar load caught my eye as well.  My first thought was it looks like the cutters in a paper shredded.  After a Google search I realized that a shredder has a lot of interesting looking parts inside.  I might have to look for a broken one somewhere and see what I could use to create a unique load.

John

@Bill Park That is a beautiful layout, you have done a great job and thank you for sharing.  Put some of those wonderful diesels I saw on your walls and share some more videos!!!

A short Erie Lackawanna mixed freight rolling through an old factory town in the Rust Belt.