Another Older Hobbyist Having Trouble Finding A Permanent Home for His Collection

When you share a story like this it really puts things in perspective when speaking of a hobby. Our "obsession" happens to be model trains and when the outsiders speak about us they call them "toys". How dare they! I'm sure someone has written on this type of psyche and it would be very interesting to find out what is going on up there. The hobby part is one thing but many of us are hoarders as well. In many cases, when we do sale one of our items it's just to get another. We all will have to face this one day. I admire those who have started looking  at reality. Those people are controlling how they let their "babies" go before someone else, with less knowledge, has that HUGE responsibility. Looks like your subject is in that process and as time continues to tick away more difficult decisions will have to be made.

Dave

As a business person you have to adjust to the market conditions. As much as he would like to sell the whole thing in one transaction it may not go down that way.

Our collections are worth what someone is willing to pay for it.

It said there was a guy in another country who wanted to buy the whole thing, but when the cost of bubble wrapping everything and shipping it to him via air freight ran north of $500,000, he said “forget it.”

Too bad there isn’t a Trainz or Stout Auctions for dead insects.  

”An obsession like this is a disaster.” 

Recognizing that a problem exists is generally a 1st step in corrective action.

As I got older, now past 82, my wife and family began asking, "What are you going to do with all that model railroad stuff upstairs?". Thus, I sold everything to Stout Auctions, cut up the layout with a SawsAll and got rid of pretty much everything. Upstairs is now a VERY nice large bedroom, for whenever our Daughter comes to visit and works up there. She and her husband live in Kansas, and we usually visit there for Thanksgiving, and they come here for Christmas. A lot less DCS and TMCC stress now.

When we buy trains it is for our enjoyment not to make a profit.

No one is going to buy the whole lot. Give it to an auction house and be satisfied with the results.

If you hang on to this all or nothing, you will be at the marble orchard and someone else will be making the final decision.

Mike how’s one come up with this habit or addiction ? I mean some think it’s strange. But the money just seems insane!!!
Did you end up moving to MV ?  Haven’t heard from you.

Scott

I worked part time at a train store for many years. I was amazed at what people sold their loved one's collections for 10 to 25 cents on the dollar. It doesn't matter what happens when I'm gone as my dad always said it's worth what you can get for it. If I did decide to part with them before my demise, I'd go the action and Sawzall route like Hot Water.

I don't think "the obsession" is unique to model trains. While I have a modest collection of probably 25-30 engines and maybe 150 pieces of rolling stock that impresses friends and family, I know people with Lego collections that would evoke thoughts of "horder" level behavior. Others collect arcade games, sports memorabilia, or even music and movies.

What's the right amount? Whatever size that makes you happy and allows you to still be a functioning member of society. If you go bankrupt over it... Then there's a problem.

However, at 4.2 million items, insects or not there had to be a lot of money that went into that, and enough time that tells me this guy probably isn't strapped for cash. Some forethought goes a long way and maybe he could have started a museum or something.

Truly just sounds like poor planning to me.

I have sympathy for the guy. 

Here is one quote from the article, 

“It’s just an amazing collection, and there won’t be another like it in our lifetimes,” says biologist Naomi Pierce, curator of Lepidoptera at Harvard University’s Museum of Comparative Zoology, who has tried, and failed, to acquire a few hundred thousand of Collins’s butterflies.

I have a subscription to the WSJ, below is a link that should be free to look at. 

https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/...opwebshare_permalink

Yeah, I don’t understand the mentality of turning down an opportunity to find a new home for a portion of your collection, even if it may only be 10-15% of the total.  It would’ve gone to a reputable museum, where presumably it would further the appreciation and education of a subject the original owner obviously loved.   I can’t imagine he’s going to find someone to take the entire lot off his hands.  

Scott I tried sending you an email.  But the short answer to your question is, yes, I did.

I've long suspected many toys including toy trains get thrown away, even if there's nothing wrong with them. Unfortunately, that "throw-away" mentality appears to have grown with each generation after WWII. I recently purchased some used buildings on the popular auction site, a group listing for 4 structures and the listing said something to the effect"going to the trash if they don't sell." I made an offer that I thought was fair and won them. Upon receiving them, they appeared new or close to it.

Many people are struggling with basic needs and space, I know what that is like, and toys often are the first things thrown out. When I went into the army, I left many of my toys and various models with my one sister and her kids, including electric trains and accessories. It'd be years later I would learn to my dismay that my brother-in-law threw many or all of them out, just to make room for whatever new stuff the family wanted.

The other tragedy revolves around well-done layouts that a father, uncle, grandfather, etc., may have spent decades building, only to be cut up and thrown out. It is my opinion that some of these layouts were museum or close to it in quality, and only needed some TLC.

I have written into my Living Trust that my ENTIRE collection goes to the Milwaukee Lionel Railroad Club.

I have gotten their consent to do so (don't want to burden them with something they MAY not want).

My further instructions are for those items that they absolutly have no room for and/or can not use they can sell to raise funds for their operation and possibly gift some trains to those less fortunate.

@mike.caruso posted:

Yeah, I don’t understand the mentality of turning down an opportunity to find a new home for a portion of your collection, even if it may only be 10-15% of the total.  It would’ve gone to a reputable museum, where presumably it would further the appreciation and education of a subject the original owner obviously loved.   I can’t imagine he’s going to find someone to take the entire lot off his hands.  ...

Consider yourself lucky if you can let go of your stuff.  Lots of train collectors grew up during the depression, or like me had parents who did - not letting go of things is hard-wired.  How many times have you seen guys who refuse to sell at the going price because "I have more in it than that" or "the price guide says it's worth a lot more than that"?  There's no way to reason with that kind of "logic".

Look at the for-sale forum - how often do we see someone asking original price or close to it for an item?  OTOH, I'm frustrated when I list something at far less than train meet or ebay prices and don't get a nibble.

Don't forget that we're all going to live forever.  As for my immortality, so far so good! 

My winter project this year is to thoroughly photograph the layout, and also photograph each piece of rolling stock.  I still have a couple of years left to run the railroad, but the time is coming when my wife and I will be left without nearby family in the Panhandle of Texas.  We will move to the Dallas-Fort Worth area to be near adult children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren.  The layout is modular and can be relocated.  I will run my remaining trains at the club layout in Grapevine.

The car hobby has the same problem.   Guys with back acerage full of rotting hulks.   They want rebuilt price for their rusting hulk.   They will be worth more one day...   

I thiink what many are missing when they demand a set not be broken up is they are limiting the hobby.  Limiting it to 1 person or none vs.  letting many many more enjoy the hobby.

At some point you got to decide if things own you or you own them.  A few months ago I couldn't use my garage well.  I passed on a hobby car project to someone 30 years younger with a teenage son.  They were exstatic to get it.  It made me just as happy.  My mother was depression era and taught me to keep all the tidbits for future products.  I got rid of all the partial packages of everything worth less than $10 in the garage also.  I have a full garage again.  I still have to do a second pass.   

If it was going to cost $500,000 just to wrap and ship this collection, it has to be HUGE. By insisting that it sell as a single lot, the seller has immediately limited his market to a group of buyers in single or double digits, not the thousands of potential buyers you need to sell something like this. Only a multi-millionaire could do a deal like this.

He is foolish to think it will sell as a lot. He should call in a reputable auction house and let them take care of it….piece by piece.

While I believe much of this article is relevant to us as train collectors, I don't think this is a direct apples to apples comparison.  A butterfly collection of that magnitude sounds like the kind of collection if in the proper condition that belongs in a museum or perhaps a research facility, especially as we are seeing less and less biodiversity with butterflies.  Having a collection like that intact has more value even if it is not monetary value than most train collections.

However, as others have stated it does remind us that we need a plan for our collections as many of us, me included, do not have a generation following me who has interest.  For me it is fairly simple in that there is a list of items that can be donated, a list of items that can go to my local clubs to be sold at whatever they can get for it, and a list of higher end items that require the qualified auctioneers who understand how to set proper reserves on those items.

The challenging part is that I have to make those lists for them to be effective!

On a more personal note, I have items in my collection that came via auction from deceased members of my TCA Division.  What is more important to me for many of those items over the item itself is the memory of the person it used to belong to.  The personal connection is something else you can't put a monetary value on.

@Rich Melvin posted:

If it was going to cost $500,000 just to wrap and ship this collection, it has to be HUGE. By insisting that it sell as a single lot, the seller has immediately limited his market to a group of buyers in single or double digits, not the thousands of potential buyers you need to sell something like this. Only a multi-millionaire could do a deal like this.

He is foolish to think it will sell as a lot. He should call in a reputable auction house and let them take care of it….piece by piece.

So true, right now in Fla I am talking to a family whose patriarch now has dementia. The sons want a mint, I have tried to explain that’s it’s what other people thinks it worth…..meanwhile the layout/collection sits now for over 1 year.

@Rich Melvin posted:

If it was going to cost $500,000 just to wrap and ship this collection, it has to be HUGE. By insisting that it sell as a single lot, the seller has immediately limited his market to a group of buyers in single or double digits, not the thousands of potential buyers you need to sell something like this. Only a multi-millionaire could do a deal like this.

He is foolish to think it will sell as a lot. He should call in a reputable auction house and let them take care of it….piece by piece.

Yeah, I strongly question the half million dollar pack and ship price tag.  That will easily pay for multiple cross-country trips in a fleet of 18 wheelers, all carefully packed and unpacked by a veritable army of help on both ends, and a whole lot more.  The old adage about getting three quotes in writing from people willing to come out and look at the items rings especially true here.

@BlueFeather posted:

Yeah, I strongly question the half million dollar pack and ship price tag.  That will easily pay for multiple cross-country trips in a fleet of 18 wheelers, all carefully packed and unpacked by a veritable army of help on both ends, and a whole lot more.  The old adage about getting three quotes in writing from people willing to come out and look at the items rings especially true here.

This would’ve been a trans-oceanic sale and transport.  The collector lives in South Africa or Nairobi, something like that.  And the interested buyer was in the U.K. I think.  

4.2 million butterflies?? Who would ever have guessed there was that many different species?

@mike.caruso posted:

This would’ve been a trans-oceanic sale and transport.  The collector lives in South Africa or Nairobi, something like that.  And the interested buyer was in the U.K. I think.  

Even then, a completely full 40' shipping container going across the ocean is low five figures USD at most, today in late 2024.  I'm not saying it didn't happen, but that it sounds much more like someone threw out a ridiculously high pack and ship estimate on the job because they didn't want to deal with it.

EDIT: from the article: "Around 2015, a wealthy British lepidopterist wanted to buy Collins’s butterflies to add to his own private collection, Collins said. At the time, an airline quoted a price of $500,000 just to ship the collection, bubble-wrapped and palletized, from Nairobi to the U.K."  Why fly this stuff and not ocean freight it?  Would be a whole, whole lot cheaper.

@Rod Stewart posted:

4.2 million butterflies?? Who would ever have guessed there was that many different species?

See, that’s another thing that’s crazy about this.  I don’t think they were 4.2 million distinct types or species or what have you.  I seem to remember a picture that showed a display case with maybe a few dozen of the exact same butterfly.  There were lots of duplicates.  Like when I was a kid collecting baseball cards and in my futile attempt to get a Carl Yastrzemski I’d end up with 4 Ed Charles’s and 3 Chico Ruiz’s.  LOL  Difference is that was unintentional.

But delibertely collecting duplicates of the same butterfly?  That would be like one of us having multiples of, say,  a CSX SD70.  Same cab no. Haha.  No one on this Forum would be that crazy would they?  

We had a friend - also a butterfly collector and university professor from Queens NY.  He move to the woods NE of me here in Maggie Valley NC because he studied and found that we actually have a bone fide 'Rain Forrest' in these mountains!  He personally collected about 600 different species moths & butterflies within a 5 mile circle from his home. He joined our train club right after we formed it and when he passed, he had a wonderful professionally assembled and labeled bug collection that he wanted donated to a museum or school.  His attorney couldn't get any interest and we have no idea what ever happened to it.  I handled the sale of of his home to a client but the attorney figured the train collection was worth a fortune (it wasn't) and kept us (his friends - the club and me) away from helping with it. I think they eventually sold it to Trainz.

@mike.caruso posted:

But delibertely collecting duplicates of the same butterfly?  That would be like one of us having multiples of, say,  a CSX SD70.  Same cab no. Haha.  No one on this Forum would be that crazy would they?  

I have two Tuscan 5-stripe 4876 GG1s.   Don't judge me.    One is MTH and the other a Weaver.  I'll get around to renumbering one of them someday.

Jonathan,

We can see you are clearly out of control and are in need of an intervention!

Wow, talk about the "butterfly effect!"

If his collection is really that focused and complete, I'm surprised that he can't find a university interested enough to buy it and use the specimens as the nucleus of a comparative research program.  The DeGolyer library at SMU has one of the most complete collections of locomotive blueprints in the U.S.  Its benefactor Everette DeGolyer collected them from the railroads as steam was being retired, and donated them to the library.  These technical documents have proven invaluable to steam operators from small tourist lines up to the U.P. Steam program, and modelers too!  When someone goes to the effort to curate a complete, focused collection, there might be "added value" beyond the yield from selling pieces individually, which effectively undoes their life's work.

Perhaps a question better posted in the "It's all gone" thread, but my fellow Forumites, what's the ball-park minimum "book value" of a collection before a place like Stout will return your phone calls, much less send a truck to pick it up and haul it away!?