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I did hear back from both Jon Z and Mike R at Lionel. The Chinese never responded to Jon's inquiry. The gist of what I got from Mike is that Lionel does not specify individual fasteners, they are chosen by the contract manufacturer. Before everybody blows a gasket, I've got a LOT of experience with Asian contract manufacturing and that's pretty typical. Mike also suggested that there's an inexpensive screwdriver set with interchangeable bits at Harbor Freight that comes in a grey case and fits the Lionel screws pretty well. That is most likely a set that has some Pozidriv bits - I have something similar; it didn't come from Harbor Freight but it's about the same thing. The bits or drivers will be marked PZ1, PZ2, etc. instead of PH1, PH2, etc. 

 

At this point I don't think the Chinese know themselves whether they are using JIS, Pozi, or Philips screws. The contract manufacturer is buying in bulk from an industrial supplier, who is making the screws on machinery that is either imported or a straight knockoff of something that was imported. Since much of the machinery that got the Chinese started in the export business came from Japan, it's a good guess that a lot of the fasteners are JIS. In any case, either JIS or Pozi drivers will work better than Philips drivers for the vast majority of screws on our 0 gauge trains. Remember, JIS drivers are a bit smaller, so a body screw that takes a #1 Philips or Pozi driver will take a #2 JIS driver. 

 

Good luck. I've learned a lot about fasteners in the last couple of months; I hope the information I've posted has helped some others as well. 

I used my new Wila 26210 Precision #1 Pozidriv screwdriver to disassemble and reassemble the Lionel 0-6-0 Docksider that I was recently trying to repair.

The tip fit the cab mounting screws very nicely. The finger control cap is a nice feature.

I purchased both the #0 and #1 Precision screwdrivers, and a #31310 soft grip #1 Pozidriv screwdriver.

 

http://www.wihatools.com/200seri/262serie.htm

http://www.wihatools.com/300seri/313serie.htm

This kid of problem is either caused by the gorilla who last installed the screws, or defective threads, or the hole was not completely threaded with a bottoming tap.

 

There two basic types of thread taps, a starting tap and a bottoming tap. The starting tap is tapered and has shallow threads at its nose so it self centers in the hole. The bottoming tap has full threads all the way to its nose, and it fully forms the partial threads left behind by the starting tap.

 

Sometimes manufacturers cut costs by eliminating the bottoming tap operation. If this is done, then a self-taping screw is necessary. Eliminating the bottoming tap operation is not good for the consumer.

 

Things I have done:

1. Inset a screwdriver into the screw head of each screw and hit the screwdriver with a hammer to shock and hopefully loosen the screw. Then try to take out the screws;

2. If the Philips slot in the screw head is ruined, use a small pair of Vise Grips and gently twist the screw out;

3. If you are lucky and the screws come out, chase the female threads in the body with the proper size bottoming tap. Lube the threads with Lithium grease before putting the screws back in;

4. Use new screws if the heads are damaged;

5. Lightly snug the screws when putting them back in;

6. Be sure to use screws with the correct thread size.

Last edited by Bobby Ogage
Originally Posted by C W Burfle:

I used my new Wila 26210 Precision #1 Pozidriv screwdriver to disassemble and reassemble the Lionel 0-6-0 Docksider that I was recently trying to repair.

The tip fit the cab mounting screws very nicely. The finger control cap is a nice feature.

I purchased both the #0 and #1 Precision screwdrivers, and a #31310 soft grip #1 Pozidriv screwdriver.

 

http://www.wihatools.com/200seri/262serie.htm

 

I just order the #0 and #1 Precision screwdrivers directly from Wiha (linke above) since that was the best price I could find and only $3.99 shipping!  Wiha drivers are always my "go to" drivers for fine precision work like our toy trains.

 

Thank you guys for posting this thread, and all the leg work to figure a good solution which I believe this will finally resolve going forward.

 

 
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