Shipping costs: splain this to me

I think that most here would scream about paying $22 and want their shipping costs to be in single digit range. 

It's also not always about weight. Size and distance are factors in cost.

Also know that commercial business accounts get discounts you and I are unlikely to see for our occasional train item shipments. Fact of life in the shipping business.

Commercial accounts get better rates.  Higher volume gets better rates too. 

At one time a few years ago, we were seeing high fuel prices adding to shipping costs. That was probably legit. Now fuel prices are low again. Will shipping costs go down? Fat chance! Do airfares ever go down or anything else for that matter? It's all about profits and pleasing investors in most cases. USPS excepted, though they have their own issues.

My train buddies were whining about shipping yesterday morning over coffee. Doesn't matter what it is, you're gonna pay the freight. Call it inflation if you want, but there is certainly "price creep". 

Shipping rates are a killer when you sell trains on Ebay.

Sets with transformer and track are particularly expensive. 

I ship USPS when I sell on eBay.  There is a feature on USPS.com that allows you to calculate shipping costs from one zip to anther.  You supply the package type, service, and weight.

Also, if you talking about posted rates on eBay, many sellers will use it as another profit opportunity grossly inflating the actual cost.

Finally, as mentioned earlier, commercial accounts receive steep discounts on shipping rates compared to consumer rates.

mwb posted:

I think that most here would scream about paying $22 and want their shipping costs to be in single digit range. 

It's also not always about weight. Size and distance are factors in cost.

I thought $1.00 a bottle was cheap. You should see the box they used to ship. It was built like a tank. I was recently quoted $40 to ship a set. Now, that is outrageous.

BTW: I am referring to dealers not the general public.

WaynePa posted:

mwb posted:

I think that most here would scream about paying $22 and want their shipping costs to be in single digit range. 

It's also not always about weight. Size and distance are factors in cost.

I thought $1.00 a bottle was cheap. You should see the box they used to ship. It was built like a tank. I was recently quoted $40 to ship a set. Now, that is outrageous.

BTW: I am referring to dealers not the general public.

For the last few years, both UPS and FedEx have added charges for the "cube" of the box, i.e. the overall size,  in addition to the weight of the box. Thus, since train stuff generally comes in pretty large boxes, since they are produce overseas, shipping cost for most train items will be pretty darned high.

Rates are computed considering distance, special handling and weight and or volume.  For example, consider the distance and handling requirements are the same.  With a five pound barbell weight in a box 8" x 8" by 2", it may cost $10 to ship from point A to point B.  The criteria for this is the weight as a truck load of such packages more than likely would be only three feet high.  The other extreme is a carton holding five pounds of expanded plastic packaging peanuts or bubble wrap.  Such a package may be 4' x 4' x 4' and a truck would have it volume capacity reached long before its gross weight it reached.  A 53' trailer could be full and with a mere 5,000 pounds of such packaging material.  No other items could be put in the trailer, therefore charging by weight is unfair to the carrier so they charge by 'Dimensional Weight' which is computed using the outside dimensions of the package.  With claims denied because of poor packaging, shipping a non-powered engine requires the original package and related protective packaging to be wrapped in bubble wrap and placed in a larger carton. Thus a 3 x 4 x 15 inch engine is shipped in a 9 x 9 x 20 inch box and the freight charges could be predicated on dimensional weight versus actual weight.

This is why railroads have different length covered hopper cars, boxcars and tank cars.

John in Lansing, Ill

WaynePa posted:

mwb posted:

I think that most here would scream about paying $22 and want their shipping costs to be in single digit range. 

It's also not always about weight. Size and distance are factors in cost.

I thought $1.00 a bottle was cheap. You should see the box they used to ship. It was built like a tank. I was recently quoted $40 to ship a set. Now, that is outrageous.

BTW: I am referring to dealers not the general public.

$40 is only outrageous if the seller is padding the shipping cost. A typical Lionel set will cost anywhere up to $50 to ship from one coast to the other by any means. And that is for the cheapest ground shipping. 

Typically, an ordinary two pound freight car shipped across the country via Priority Mail will run $15 or so.  

It’s just a fact of life. 

We ship Ebay items by the cheapest method available for each item. No padding, just actual cost. That said, it is never cheap anymore. 

Hot Water posted:

WaynePa posted:

mwb posted:

I think that most here would scream about paying $22 and want their shipping costs to be in single digit range. 

It's also not always about weight. Size and distance are factors in cost.

I thought $1.00 a bottle was cheap. You should see the box they used to ship. It was built like a tank. I was recently quoted $40 to ship a set. Now, that is outrageous.

BTW: I am referring to dealers not the general public.

For the last few years, both UPS and FedEx have added charges for the "cube" of the box, i.e. the overall size,  in addition to the weight of the box. Thus, since train stuff generally comes in pretty large boxes, since they are produce overseas, shipping cost for most train items will be pretty darned high.

UPS has had a dimensional weight surcharge for years. I used to work i a hobby store back in the 80's. It was really easy to calculate if a train set for example was oversized. We had a lamp chain that UPS provided. Just wrap the chain around the girth, and let it hang down. there was a bead, and if it didn't hit the table, it was oversized and cost more. If I remember correctly, if the end of the chain didn't touch, UPS wouldn't take it at all, and it would have to go via USPS or worse common carrier.

Last week shipped an engine to New Jersey, from here in Florida. Shipped on the 8th, expected delivery was the 14th. Actual delivery was the 19th. Total shipping cost was 48.75.

Until some have shipped an engine, seeing what some do charge on E-Bay. I can see many actually under charge. I can see were some that wish to have someone upgrade their engines, or repairs, can start by adding 100.00 for shipping charges both ways.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

At one time a few years ago, we were seeing high fuel prices adding to shipping costs. That was probably legit. Now fuel prices are low again. Will shipping costs go down? Fat chance! Do airfares ever go down or anything else for that matter? It's all about profits and pleasing investors in most cases. USPS excepted, though they have their own issues.

My train buddies were whining about shipping yesterday morning over coffee. Doesn't matter what it is, you're gonna pay the freight. Call it inflation if you want, but there is certainly "price creep". 

Fuel prices are not low! If you mean gasoline being low you are correct. However, the world runs on diesel fuel which is also home heating oil! Don’t expect any low cost fuel ever! It’s funny that diesel is a byproduct  of gasoline so it should be cheaper! What a joke!

It's because shippers are padding their bottom line. They can quote you a great price, and then add a boatload in shipping. It's the way business is done in America, today. Not everyone does it, but many do.

If only there was someplace where we could go and pick up the item, like maybe, uh, a local building where some local guy sold the stuff.  Oh, wait, we killed most of those...

RLHarner 

 

Fuel prices are not low! If you mean gasoline being low you are correct. However, the world runs on diesel fuel which is also home heating oil! Don’t expect any low cost fuel ever! It’s funny that diesel is a byproduct  of gasoline so it should be cheaper! What a joke!

It isn’t quite so simple. In the ‘90’s regulations changed that required the use of ultra-low sulphur diesel, which costs more to produce. The federal tax is higher on diesel than gasoline.

Hmm I’ve noticed the global shipping program prices on train items on eBay seem to be creeping up.

I sent a A4 document to the States the other day, it weighed next to nothing. But I required it to be tracked and signed for. That cost £9! Royal Mail

I had a good story from one of my car club mates. A few years back he went to the large DeLorean convention held in Belfast. They had a vendor night at the convention with serveral of the large US based parts suppliers present. One of the vendors commented that they had very little demand from the U.K. and Europe. At which point their competitors remarked they were selling pallet loads of stuff.

The particular vendor asked the group of U.K. owners why this was. And was told “It’s because you insist on using UPS” which were tacking on all sorts of extra “handling charges” before they would hand over packages at this end.

Best value shipping from the States to the U.K. in my experience is DHL.

Nick

Today (1/21/19) on oil-prices.net the wholesale price of gasoline is $1.45.

The wholesale price of heating oil is $1.92.

of course, that doesn’t include taxes or conveyance costs (or retail profit).

I bought 12 4 foot long LED fixtures for my auto shop to replace the florescent lights.  The seller shipped them FedEx for $10.......do you think that's what it cost to ship??? NO ..the seller ate some of the cost so they could advertise $10 flat rate shipping and lure buyers. Businesses have many advantages over a guy selling off items. Commercial rates, margins, tax benefits and offsets.......NONE of which the basement guys has. 

Apple and oranges....... face it shipping for an individual is costly. 

I just bought a single mth diesel from a seller who lives in the lower 48 states, and shipping was 44.99...how????!!!!!

LoganUP1982, what is the weight? What are the dimensions?   Go to the appropriate web site and enter the applicable information. Let us know what you found.   John in Lansing, ILL

LoganUP1982 posted:

I just bought a single mth diesel from a seller who lives in the lower 48 states, and shipping was 44.99...how????!!!!!

Your seller hasn't realized that eBay charges a final value fee for BOTH the selling price AND the shipping charge.  OR, he thinks he'll attract buyers with artificially low asking prices and load up on the shipping.

Either way, it shouldn't make any difference in a buyer's purchase decision since that ought to be based on the TOTAL.

Face it, shipping costs are getting ridiculous. I recently sold five O scale locomotives to five different buyers via our Forum (a GREAT way to sell, in my experience). One buyer lives in Maine, one lives in California, and the other three were somewhere in between in the east and midwest. I "explored" shipping costs a bit--USPS, UPS, and FedEx--and finally decided to send all five via USPS Priority Mail/Insured. All deliveries went well (I really know how to pack a solid box), but I took a BIG hit on nearly ALL the shipping costs, and that was not even counting the cost of packing materials (again, I do it right because I wany my buyer to receive things the way I would want to receive them).

The "loss" due to not charging enough for shipping was my own fault (shipping to CA was a real killer). I had just estimated what I thought was a fair price to charge for shipping in each case and boy was I wrong, although the east coast shipments were at least somewhat close to my ballpark estimate.

Fortunately, I do very little train selling, although I still do have some items I would like to see go to good homes. But in the future I will always ask the buyer to pay "actual shipping." Once an individual says he or she will by the item, I'll box it up and take it to my local Post Office (I found UPS and FedEx prices to be considerably higher, even though I do like UPS), and once I have the weight and insurance costs, I'll ask the buyer to add that amount to his or her payment.

1) Last week i sold 2 KLine "Fleet of Modernism" cars on FleaBay. Had to ship them to SC from upstate NY. Packed, weighed and measured the shipping box and calculated USPS shipping - almost $14.00 (retail at my local post office). I then used FleaBay's calculator and bought the shipping (USPS) from them - a little over $10. Yes, volume users do get a substantial discount, and you can bet FleaBay was still making a profit on that $10 in addition to its usual fee.

2) One way to reduce the high costs of shipping is to use USPS Flat Rate boxes (available free at the post office & online) or the USPS Priority Mail boxes (free online). These do save money.

3) When shipping to Europe use DHL- have used them for over 35 years. Fast and great pricing.

4) When using UPS if you ship to a business address it costs less than to a residential one. Going direct to a UPS facility is significantly less than one of those UPS Stores in a mall.

5) Finally if you have a Fastenall distributor near you and one near the recipient, pack what you are shipping and take it to them to see what they will charge to ship to their location nearest to the recipient. I've been clearing out my inventory of pre 1955 MG parts for the last few years and have found Fastenall a great way to ship heavy and/or oversized items at a lower cost. Of course the recipient has to pick the item up at his end.

I use ebay or Paypal shipping every time I can. For my decals I ship it's $3.50 vs $2.60....big difference. Reduce cost when you can. 

LoganUP1982 posted:

I just bought a single mth diesel from a seller who lives in the lower 48 states, and shipping was 44.99...how????!!!!!

Your seller hasn't realized that eBay charges a final value fee for BOTH the selling price AND the shipping charge.  OR, he thinks he'll attract buyers with artificially low asking prices and load up on the shipping.

Either way, it shouldn't make any difference in a buyer's purchase decision since that ought to be based on the TOTAL.

I have an account with USPS. I type in the address, size and weight of the package and get the rate. For the train items I ship, Priority Mail is always cheaper than Flat Rate. I pay with Paypal with no fee and print my own label. They will even pick up, so no trip to the Post Office. Even just gas for that trip is at least a couple bucks. I did buy a $15 scale, but that was paid for in a couple transactions. I don't have For Sale posts every week like some, but I sell stuff I no longer need or don't have room for. Works for me, and it's there in two days with tracking. The last MTH engine I shipped was $15.

Allan Miller posted:

Face it, shipping costs are getting ridiculous. I recently sold five O scale locomotives to five different buyers via our Forum (a GREAT way to sell, in my experience). One buyer lives in Maine, one lives in California, and the other three were somewhere in between in the east and midwest. I "explored" shipping costs a bit--USPS, UPS, and FedEx--and finally decided to send all five via USPS Priority Mail/Insured. All deliveries went well (I really know how to pack a solid box), but I took a BIG hit on nearly ALL the shipping costs, and that was not even counting the cost of packing materials (again, I do it right because I wany my buyer to receive things the way I would want to receive them).

The "loss" due to not charging enough for shipping was my own fault (shipping to CA was a real killer). I had just estimated what I thought was a fair price to charge for shipping in each case and boy was I wrong, although the east coast shipments were at least somewhat close to my ballpark estimate.

Fortunately, I do very little train selling, although I still do have some items I would like to see go to good homes. But in the future I will always ask the buyer to pay "actual shipping." Once an individual says he or she will by the item, I'll box it up and take it to my local Post Office (I found UPS and FedEx prices to be considerably higher, even though I do like UPS), and once I have the weight and insurance costs, I'll ask the buyer to add that amount to his or her payment.

You are aware that going to your local p.o. that USPS has a higher price than if you used a scale, ruler, and PayPal shipping. PayPal gets a discount on shipping with the USPS. Also shipping via Staples shipping you can get the same discount too!

Pingman posted:

I ship USPS when I sell on eBay.  There is a feature on USPS.com that allows you to calculate shipping costs from one zip to anther.  You supply the package type, service, and weight.

Also, if you talking about posted rates on eBay, many sellers will use it as another profit opportunity grossly inflating the actual cost.

Finally, as mentioned earlier, commercial accounts receive steep discounts on shipping rates compared to consumer rates.

As a frequent eBay shipper of old trains, I don't see any merit in making a fuss about whether the shipper is "inflating" profit with shipping.  Whether I get a high price with low shipping cost or low price with a padded shipping cost doesn't really matter.  My buyer knows the total cost to him.  that's what he pays and what I get is 87 % of that.

So what if eBay charges a final value fee on shipping.  My only interest is net cash from the whole transaction.  If the buyer is OK with what he pays and I am with what I get, that's all that matters.

Do use eBay and PAypal for shipping labels - always a dolalr or two less than what the postal clerks tell me I would pay them.

JimJohnson posted:

It's because shippers are padding their bottom line. They can quote you a great price, and then add a boatload in shipping. It's the way business is done in America, today. Not everyone does it, but many do.

 

I think that is sheer nonsense.  My wife and I do most of our shopping on-line and I send 200-300 eBay shipments a year, so we have a pretty good idea of what are legitimate shipping costs.  It is quite unsusual to see shipping costs that are out of lin.

Dave Warburton posted:

Shipping rates are a killer when you sell trains on Ebay.

Sets with transformer and track are particularly expensive. 

 

eBay gives lots of choices between the USPS and FedEx. They also give a small discount off of the full retail price 

Of course, if you want the market that eBay offers you have to pay the price 

You also have to remember that many times the cost is shipping and handling.  Individuals that sell items may and do reuse boxes and packing material but most businesses don't do this. They buy their packing supplies which add to the cost of getting an item to you.  In addition to the actual cost of shipping there is also a cost for the box (unless as mentioned you're using Priority Mail boxes provided for free by USPS), proper packing materials (wadded up newspaper isn't proper packing material), tape and the cost for the time of the person doing the packing.  These costs can add several dollars or more to what it costs to have the item sent to you. 

If you thought is was bad before  ebay just announced rates for usps and fedex are going up 5-6% effective immediately.

bw14 posted:

 In addition to the actual cost of shipping there is also a cost for the box (unless as mentioned you're using Priority Mail boxes provided for free by USPS), . . .

 

Which you DO pay for, just as a fraction of the postage charge. . . .  NSTAAFL

palallin posted:

bw14 posted:

 In addition to the actual cost of shipping there is also a cost for the box (unless as mentioned you're using Priority Mail boxes provided for free by USPS), . . .

 

Which you DO pay for, just as a fraction of the postage charge. . . .  NSTAAFL

I thought it was TANSTAAFL

palallin posted:

bw14 posted:

 In addition to the actual cost of shipping there is also a cost for the box (unless as mentioned you're using Priority Mail boxes provided for free by USPS), . . .

 

Which you DO pay for, just as a fraction of the postage charge. . . .  NSTAAFL

I have a cure for the box cost problem.  Get your wife to do her shopping on Amazon.  She receives more than enough to cover the several boxes a week that I ship, so I always have a good choice of box sizes.

Guitarmike posted:

If you thought is was bad before  ebay just announced rates for usps and fedex are going up 5-6% effective immediately.

They were talking about the average rate on millions of shipments.  I see no sign ificant increase, and a few decreases, on the one to five pound packages that I ship.

bw14 posted:

You also have to remember that many times the cost is shipping and handling.  Individuals that sell items may and do reuse boxes and packing material but most businesses don't do this. They buy their packing supplies which add to the cost of getting an item to you.  In addition to the actual cost of shipping there is also a cost for the box (unless as mentioned you're using Priority Mail boxes provided for free by USPS), proper packing materials (wadded up newspaper isn't proper packing material), tape and the cost for the time of the person doing the packing.  These costs can add several dollars or more to what it costs to have the item sent to you. 

 

bw14 posted:

You also have to remember that many times the cost is shipping and handling.  Individuals that sell items may and do reuse boxes and packing material but most businesses don't do this. They buy their packing supplies which add to the cost of getting an item to you.  In addition to the actual cost of shipping there is also a cost for the box (unless as mentioned you're using Priority Mail boxes provided for free by USPS), proper packing materials (wadded up newspaper isn't proper packing material), tape and the cost for the time of the person doing the packing.  These costs can add several dollars or more to what it costs to have the item sent to you. 

 

Also paper adds weight.  I've found many times that a three pound package with paper stuffing will be two pounds when stuffed with bubble wrap.  I buy bubble wrap at Staples when they have a sale, which is frequent, of three rolls for the price of two.

Dave Warburton posted:

Shipping rates are a killer when you sell trains on Ebay.

Sets with transformer and track are particularly expensive. 

 

Hi Dave. You do mean it's a killer for the buyer don't you.

Some of the rolling stock I buy on ebay now is cheaper than the shipping and other items cost the same like if a freight car costs 30 bucks the shipping is just as much if not more sometimes 35 dollars meaning for a car that costs $30 now would cost $65 I have to live with it or buy nothing.

I just bought a MTH side dump car last night for $32-50 the shipping is $29-70 I live with it.

Roo in West Australia