Should there be a new Run of PRR BP20’s???

I would for the CANCELLED run of BP20's with the SINGLE STRIPE DLGE and Single Stripe Tuscan Models. I would even be interested in #5770 & #5771 with the Headlight/Mars Light front!

http://www.rrpicturearchives.n...ture.aspx?id=5574249

http://rrpicturearchives.net/L...cture.aspx?id=234391

But be prepared for a$1200,00 price tag per unit...since the KM's were over a grand each!

There’s tons of Pennsy fans. I bet there would be enough to step up to get a minimum # of reservations to get it to fly 🤔. The SP-DRG KM offering is a good comparable - few produced and pricey. If this gets offered in AB pairs, it will be Very Pricy. (Lone “leftover” B units would be almost impossible to sell.) May be just “A” units could be offered 🤔. Multiple versions offered would be helpful.

Just my opinion but, I really can't see why Sunset/3rd Rail would even consider taking on such a project. I seem to remember that Weaver even had a difficult time finally obtaining enough reservations and selling all the models produced took quite a bit of time.

this is a rare and very nice prototype.    Unfortunately only the one RR had them, and they are HUGE.    The models would really overwhelm a home layout.     I think that is the down side.     The up side is very unique and there were multiple paint schemes.     I think some of the B  units were regeared and paired with 4 axle baldwins in freight service.  

I don't know how to evaluate it from a business standpoint.   I am a pennsy fan/modeler, but I would not consider it because of the length.    It would not work on my layout.

I would have to consider a BP20 by 3rd Rail. I have the Weaver model...  it's a beautiful model but lacks the detail expected today. It's also not a particularly great runner... LOL

I'd be a buyer for multiple paint schemes. I have a tuscan Weaver AB set, computer froze on the Stout auction with a DGLE set a few months back or I'd have that one, too.

This seems to be similar to the Virginian EL-2Bs done by 3rd Rail a few years back, or even the recent EA / E1s -- twin engine sets with only two roads using them (one in the case of the BP-20, but multiple schemes).  PRR always sells -- I'm guessing they could achieve the 50 2R / 50 3R mark fairly easily and would probably price them around $1,800 / pair.

As a bonus, the model might pump up reservations for the 2nd run of the Broadway Limited.  I love my EMD Es, but it's nice to see other unique motive power pulling some of these streamliners once in awhile.

I would be a buyer. Those are the other white whale I have yet to get. The 3rd Rail de-skirted Q1 was the first, but I found one of those over the summer. I’ve seen the Weaver ones come up for sale and the price is just a little hard to justify with them known for not being great runners and the lack of any command control.

An AB pair for less than $2k sounds about right.

I’m in

Glad to see some interest. IMO the weaver models BP20’s lack a lot of detail, no smoke, jerky cruise control and prices that are outrageous.
Seems like there would be enough interest to make 100-150 models. Approximately 50/50 split between 2R & 3R. Tuscan 5 stripe & single stripe. Plus DGLE 5 stripe & single stripe.
I would like to see AB sets plus single A units offered. And yeah it might boost Broadway limited orders. In the 1948 broadways early days it was pulled by centipedes, and the Baldwin sharks may have pulled it too.

It is the one PRR diesel that served its final years on the NY&LB that I do not have.  I would be interested in at least one for sure especially considering the advances that have happened in the quality of injection tooled diesel locomotives over the last 10 years.

The Weaver BP20 was a brass model. Brass models are custom made, there are/would be, bench tooling, to fabricate metal parts but no injection molds used for plastic model shells. Sold as an powered A, non-powered B.  Weaver, after request, powered the B unit.   Weaver also gave the option, to those who had purchased non-powered B units, to upgrade to B powered.  There were additional powered A's offered.  Pennsy ran A-B-A on the Long Island Railroad. Offered Red, or Green, Five stripe, and single stripe.  Foggy head, I've forgotten more, than I ever learned. IMO, Mike CT.   

@Mike CT posted:

The Weaver BP20 was a brass model.  Sold as an powered A, non-powered B.  Weaver, after request, powered the B unit.   Weaver also gave the option to those who had purchased non-powered B units to upgrade to power. There were additional powered A's offered.  Pennsy ran A-B-A on the Long Island Railroad. Offered Red or Green, Five strip and single strip.  Foggy head, I've forgotten more than I ever learned. IMO, Mike CT.   

Pennsy never ran BP20 ABA diesel sets on the Long Island RR. They were way to big. PRR used BP20’s later in their life on the NY& Long Branch.

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Pennsy never ran BP20 ABA diesel sets on the Long Island RR. They were way to big. PRR used BP20’s later in their life on the NY& Long Branch.

Correction noted.  Thank you, Mike CT.

@TrainBub posted:

There’s tons of Pennsy fans. I bet there would be enough to step up to get a minimum # of reservations to get it to fly 🤔. The SP-DRG KM offering is a good comparable - few produced and pricey. If this gets offered in AB pairs, it will be Very Pricy. (Lone “leftover” B units would be almost impossible to sell.) May be just “A” units could be offered 🤔. Multiple versions offered would be helpful.

IF 3rd Rail does it, they will only make what's on Order -no extras. So I doubt any extra B-units would be available unless someone orders it and passes away b4 delivery.

I remember seeing a picture of a PRR FM “Erie Built” Brunswick green single stripe on the LIRR I think they look a little bit similar

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

Glad to see some interest. IMO the weaver models BP20’s lack a lot of detail, no smoke, jerky cruise control and prices that are outrageous.
Seems like there would be enough interest to make 100-150 models. Approximately 50/50 split between 2R & 3R. Tuscan 5 stripe & single stripe. Plus DGLE 5 stripe & single stripe.
I would like to see AB sets plus single A units offered.

I'm not so sure about 2 rail. They have plenty to choose from. But Hey you never know! It doesn't hurt to put out the reservation.

BTW, a Weaver A unit DLGE 5 stripe just closed on E-bay for $860 plus S & H.

"I'm not so sure about 2 rail. They have plenty to choose from."

Are there other 2-rail BP20's other than the old NJ Custom Brass models?  Those aren't all that common, either.

@Mike CT posted:

The Weaver BP20 was a brass model. Brass models are custom made, there are/would be, bench tooling, to fabricate metal parts but no injection molds used for plastic model shells. Sold as an powered A, non-powered B.  Weaver, after request, powered the B unit.   Weaver also gave the option, to those who had purchased non-powered B units, to upgrade to B powered.  There were additional powered A's offered.  Pennsy ran A-B-A on the Long Island Railroad. Offered Red, or Green, Five stripe, and single stripe.  Foggy head, I've forgotten more, than I ever learned. IMO, Mike CT.   

I think there's a little confusion here. Nobody said the Weavers were plastic shell. Jonathan is pointing out that this would now be a good candidate for a plastic-shelled 3rd Rail model given the advances in the technology over the last decade or two.

Weaver's single-stripe options were never actually produced, just Tuscan and DGLE in 5-stripe.

@Bob posted:

"I'm not so sure about 2 rail. They have plenty to choose from."

Are there other 2-rail BP20's other than the old NJ Custom Brass models?  Those aren't all that common, either.

I believe Locomotive workshop had a kit. I will have to check my brown books of brass to see if other importers made them.

Btw, does the CNJ "double ender" share  the same trucks and frame and undercarriage as a BP20?

Can someone comment on where these ran ?  Someone mentioned they were used on the Broadway Ltd so that means they got to Chicago. Did they ever make it to St. Louis ?

They ended up running on the New York and Long Branch, basically from the engine change point at South Amboy to Bay Head Junction.  GG1's would bring the trains out of Pennsylvania Station in New York City to South Amboy where the electrification ended.

A Lot of Interest here !!!  
Email Scott to let Him know of your interest in this model !!!    
IF there’s Enough Interest this Could be offered up and put in the Long Q of offerings. Then what counts are Reservations !!!   Big #s of reservations would be needed to move it up in the Q !!!

Cheers 🙂

@TrainBub posted:

Can someone comment on where these ran ?  Someone mentioned they were used on the Broadway Ltd so that means they got to Chicago. Did they ever make it to St. Louis ?

When they were first delivered between June 1947-Nov. 1948 they were assigned to the blue ribbon trains (Broadway, General, Spirit of St. Louis) and other 1st class trains. This didn’t last long due to mechanical failures and
they were re-assigned to secondary trains.  From 1949-1951 they were mostly on mail & express trains. 4 A units & 4 B units were re-geared for freight service in 1953. These wore the DGLE single stripe paint scheme. Eventually the rest were moved to the NY & Long branch pulling commuter trains. That’s a very brief history on these engines.

@Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:

When they were first delivered between June 1947-Nov. 1948 they were assigned to the blue ribbon trains (Broadway, General, Spirit of St. Louis) and other 1st class trains. This didn’t last long due to mechanical failures and
they were re-assigned to secondary trains.  From 1949-1951 they were mostly on mail & express trains. 4 A units & 4 B units were re-geared for freight service in 1953. These wore the DGLE single stripe paint scheme. Eventually the rest were moved to the NY & Long branch pulling commuter trains. That’s a very brief history on these engines.

Thanks DJ !!!! I’m in St. Louis and collect what came into St. Louis Union Station - and am slowly gaining knowledge on the details. There’s A Lot as St. Louis was a Major rail hub “back in the day”. Your info puts me in the 👍to reserve one of these if we can get it in the Q !!!  It could share time with my MTH T-1.

Cheers !!!

Good opportunity for Broadway Limited to get into the O2R/O3R marketplace!   

I mean, with their Pennsy-phile name what better time and way to branch out??  Lord knows they surely know how to build an awesome locomotive...et alia...if you've ever dwelt in the 'dark side' (HO). 

Oh sure, fat chance, you say.  Of course that's what they said before MTH entered other scale markets. 

Granted, some manufacturers don't do well in venturing...multiple times(), even...into a different realm. 

But sometimes, just sometimes, a little encouragement can work miracles.

KD

@TrainBub posted:

Thanks DJ !!!! I’m in St. Louis and collect what came into St. Louis Union Station - and am slowly gaining knowledge on the details. There’s A Lot as St. Louis was a Major rail hub “back in the day”. Your info puts me in the 👍to reserve one of these if we can get it in the Q !!!  It could share time with my MTH T-1.

Cheers !!!

Your welcome! Glad I could help you 🙂

For those that can't wait for a rerun, there are BP20's from 3 different manufacturers on the big auction site right now.     Earl G.

I’d be in for a couple.

-Brian

@TrainBub posted:

Can someone comment on where these ran ?  Someone mentioned they were used on the Broadway Ltd so that means they got to Chicago. Did they ever make it to St. Louis ?

In one of the PRR morning Sun books there is a pic of one in Louisville, KY.

After they got taken off the Blue Ribbon trains for reliability issues  they were put on secondary trains,Chicago to Louisville for example

@TrainBub posted:

A Lot of Interest here !!!  
Email Scott to let Him know of your interest in this model !!!    
IF there’s Enough Interest this Could be offered up and put in the Long Q of offerings. Then what counts are Reservations !!!   Big #s of reservations would be needed to move it up in the Q !!!

Cheers 🙂

I forwarded a copy of this thread to Scott Mann of 3rd Rail. Still those that are interested in this hard to find 3 rail locomotive need to e-mail Scott Mann to place this model on the reservation sheet. But be warned chances are good the model could cost over $1000.00/unit esp if made in brass!

@Bob posted:

"I'm not so sure about 2 rail. They have plenty to choose from."

Are there other 2-rail BP20's other than the old NJ Custom Brass models?  Those aren't all that common, either.

Apparently at this time, evil bay has 2 rail PRR BP20s on both Weaver models, [Tuscan & DLGE 5 stripe] NJ International, and the Locomotive workshop kit for 2 rail as well.

I would be interested if the price was reasonable.

@prrhorseshoecurve posted:

I forwarded a copy of this thread to Scott Mann of 3rd Rail. Still those that are interested in this hard to find 3 rail locomotive need to e-mail Scott Mann to place this model on the reservation sheet. But be warned chances are good the model could cost over $1000.00/unit esp if made in brass!

If this were to be made in brass, we are probably looking at well over $2k per unit.  The Krauss Maffei is listed at $1400 plus shipping, and it’s ABS.  Knowing that, I’d still be in for a couple of units in 3R.

-Brian

If the B unit were not powered an AB set I would think might be in the range of 1200 I would think

Even the Meeeeshigan gang can get on board this project!...

BP20 in Mackinaw City

Talk about being relegated to bench duty!?!?

Anyone ever ride the Northern Arrow to Mackinaw City???  (Me neither.)

The local dreamers hope to re-incarnate this service.  (Good luck with that.)  But unless they find a BP20 set...or McKeen railmotor car...restorable, of course...it just wouldn't have that chutzpah draw...IMHO, of course.

Still...a classy shark for shure.

KD

@Hot Water posted:

Just my opinion but, I really can't see why Sunset/3rd Rail would even consider taking on such a project. I seem to remember that Weaver even had a difficult time finally obtaining enough reservations and selling all the models produced took quite a bit of time.

With today's detail and command control don't see why they wouldn't sell. Lots of Pennsy operators and collectors out there.