The gearing as found in this era of Lionel scale steamer is well suited to remotoring upgrades, desirous in today's operational norms. Tolerances in the worm drive allow smooth free wheeling characteristics, given the can motor isn't prone to stiff cogging. No more parking on inclines! 😊
Bruce
Ok boys & girls, an update on Sid’s CV project,…he’s officially out of paint, …..I have to thank my graphics guy Graham Davis for this incredible lettering work he does, and he did the assist on the tender striping,…..that was a bear and very delicate!….if y’all NYC aficionados would critique the work, I’d be more than happy to hear your thoughts, ….this locomotive we believe is as accurate as can be made from this diecast model,….reference page 241 ( lower picture ) of Alvin Stauffer & Edward May’s book “ Thoroughbreds” ….time to hang the gingerbread back on her and see what we got,…we just finished the tender tonight, and wanted to show the “sneak peek” of what we see!….I’m loving it!!
Pat 
It looks great!!!
Oh, the tender striping is at the top and the bottom of the tender. That took way too long for me to see Pat. I guess it has been a long day for me running around that my eyes played sleepy on me and weren't focusing like they should. That striping is dang great though. What a beauty.
@Mark Boyce posted:It looks great!!!
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:Oh, the tender striping is at the top and the bottom of the tender. That took way too long for me to see Pat. I guess it has been a long day for me running around that my eyes played sleepy on me and weren't focusing like they should. That striping is dang great though. What a beauty.
Dave & Mark,…thanks for the kind comments,….a few noteworthy points about Sid’s paint job on his CV,….as most of y’all know, this is not a rattle can job, I worked with my DuPont rep and members of the NYCHS to develop what popular consensus amongst NYC modelers thought the correct shade should be of the CV Hudson,….obviously when Lionel offered the first run of the CV in 96 they missed it by a country mile, then, when they reissued it in a darker shade, most NYC purists felt they went too far,….interesting discussions with society members, and other NYC gurus was a rumor that Lionel used the Vandy colors for the basis of their gunmetal colored standard gauge locomotives….rumors of course, with no way to verify…….anyways, my paint rep really enjoys these “ special projects “ I toss at him because it’s different from the mundane match this Toyota or match that Ford,….so he gets a kick out of doing these jobs,….we went trough a few mixes before settling on this color by popular vote,….and even before I submitted the pics on here, I asked one of our resident NYC gurus ( Pete ) what he thought,…so with his final approval we moved forward,…..my graphics guy studied the lettering on many prototype pics, and after a few proofs, he nailed it……so you see, there’s a lot more to these projects then hoping for close enough,……we have the backing & blessing of some of the brightest minds when it comes to NYC preservation and accuracy,…..neat stuff to research….not sure if I had mentioned all of this when I began the thread,…
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Dave & Mark,…thanks for the kind comments,….a few noteworthy points about Sid’s paint job on his CV,….as most of y’all know, this is not a rattle can job, I worked with my DuPont rep and members of the NYCHS to develop what popular consensus amongst NYC modelers thought the correct shade should be of the CV Hudson,….obviously when Lionel offered the first run of the CV in 96 they missed it by a country mile, then, when they reissued it in a darker shade, most NYC purists felt they went too far,….interesting discussions with society members, and other NYC gurus was a rumor that Lionel used the Vandy colors for the basis of their gunmetal colored standard gauge locomotives….rumors of course, with no way to verify…….anyways, my paint rep really enjoys these “ special projects “ I toss at him because it’s different from the mundane match this Toyota or match that Ford,….so he gets a kick out of doing these jobs,….we went trough a few mixes before settling on this color by popular vote,….and even before I submitted the pics on here, I asked one of our resident NYC gurus ( Pete ) what he thought,…so with his final approval we moved forward,…..my graphics guy studied the lettering on many prototype pics, and after a few proofs, he nailed it……so you see, there’s a lot more to these projects then hoping for close enough,……we have the backing & blessing of some of the brightest minds when it comes to NYC preservation and accuracy,…..neat stuff to research….not sure if I had mentioned all of this when I began the thread,…
Pat
Pat, I believe that you may have hinted a bit on a few things from the start, but as with any journey, you have to let your feet get out in front of you so you can walk. We have all seen the jobs you have worked on, and the seriousness of what you do(not try, do or do not you know as Yoda says). This is your work, your thing.
I know when I built my cherry table in Mr. Brenner's(Hope I spelled his name right) wood shop class(furniture and cabinet making), I really took that project seriously. I had wanted to make something worthy of stuff I admired. I still have that table, my mother loved it so and was amazed her son could make something like that.
I know that with the projects I want done that I send your way, are in excellent hands. I know Mark will agree as well as anyone else that has seen your work.
Absolutely spectacular Pat. A paint job worthy of the mechanicals under the hood! 
A great team effort.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I know when I built my cherry table in Mr. Brenner's(Hope I spelled his name right) wood shop class(furniture and cabinet making), I really took that project seriously. I had wanted to make something worthy of stuff I admired. I still have that table, my mother loved it so and was amazed her son could make something like that.
Mine was Mr. O'Neill... I built a custom dry-sink/ server for my mother when I was in HS (41 years ago...ouch!). I started with a picture in a catalog of what she wanted and designed it from the ground up. She still has the piece in her living room.
Bob
"I’m liking what I’m seeing,..", you and me both Pat. Another excellent shopping by Harmon Yard.
Here's a question for you all...and if I'm missing something here, I apologize.
If I'm reading this correctly, now that this model is both running great and looking great, it's going to have to be disassembled again to upgrade the electronics?
I thought that typically, painting is the final step in the process; all the mechanical/electrical stuff happens first...?
Not in any way a criticism, just wondering. 
Mark in Oregon
@Strummer posted:Here's a question for you all...and if I'm missing something here, I apologize.
If I'm reading this correctly, now that this model is both running great and looking great, it's going to have to be disassembled again to upgrade the electronics?
I thought that typically, painting is the final step in the process; all the mechanical/electrical stuff happens first...?
Not in any way a criticism, just wondering.
Mark in Oregon
Mark, ….I’ll explain ….it’s built to be disassembled and reassembled as many times as needed, once Sid gets it back, he can unbolt the shells, and carefully set them aside while he does his electrical craftsmanship,….Sid’s no slouch, he’s done bunches of upgrades, so I’m 100% confident he’s got this down to a science,…also, everything that was needed to be drilled, tapped, or altered in anyway has already been done fitted, and finished before painting,….so pretty much the last thing to do is to set the finished shells back on,….hope that makes sense…..
Pat
…
My hats off to you, all. Well done.
When I applied my front plaque, I drilled a hole in the shell to get more surface area for the adhesive, making it more of a rivet than just surface to surface contact. Good to see you pulled off the lion plaque on the cab side as well.
Just in case you didn’t see it, this document from the NYCSHS has a lot of detail pictures as well, especially on the nose plaque location.
https://nycshs.files.wordpress...ages-from-1981q3.pdf
It may be easier to send you mine for repaint instead of swapping the shells!
thanks,
- Mario
@CentralFan1976 posted:My hats off to you, all. Well done.
When I applied my front plaque, I drilled a hole in the shell to get more surface area for the adhesive, making it more of a rivet than just surface to surface contact. Good to see you pulled off the lion plaque on the cab side as well.
Just in case you didn’t see it, this document from the NYCSHS has a lot of detail pictures as well, especially on the nose plaque location.
https://nycshs.files.wordpress...ages-from-1981q3.pdf
It may be easier to send you mine for repaint instead of swapping the shells!
thanks,
- Mario
Mario, …it’s expensive stuff, but I have access to panel bonder from my shop,…this is the stuff we glue sheet metal together with,…..and airplanes are held together with,…when applied, you’ll need a sledge hammer to get it off,…..but good idea on drilling a hole to allow trapped ooze,….when I finally get this thing together, you’re one of the fellows I’d really like to hear feedback from,….your CV is outstanding,…
Pat
You made me dig out my CV. I’ll pack it up to send it to you for painting!
it’s probably easier than trying to swap shells since I’ve made some many mods. Would you take the dark gray shells in trade?
@CentralFan1976 posted:You made me dig out my CV. I’ll pack it up to send it to you for painting!
it’s probably easier than trying to swap shells since I’ve made some many mods. Would you take the dark gray shells in trade?
We can work something out Mario, …shoot me an email, we’ll go from there,..
Pat
Mario how did you set the CV up so that it didn't move in your video?
@coach joe posted:Mario how did you set the CV up so that it didn't move in your video?
Crappy track work. 🤣
I can’t run this at home, only at the club.
@CentralFan1976 posted:Crappy track work. 🤣
I can’t run this at home, only at the club.
Dang, I thought it was like the big Pennsy monster at the World's Fair!
@harmonyards posted:We can work something out Mario, …shoot me an email, we’ll go from there,..
Pat
You guys have rekindled something in me that I haven't felt in a long time, and I am super stoked about this.
Thank you so much!
- Mario
@CentralFan1976 posted:You guys have rekindled something in me that I haven't felt in a long time, and I am super stoked about this.
Thank you so much!
- Mario
That's a good thing. In a couple of weeks I'll have to get with Pat on my two CV's to send to him. That's after York I'll chat on that. Until then I get to enjoy seeing the worn here.
@harmonyards posted:Ok boys & girls, an update on Sid’s CV project,…he’s officially out of paint, …..I have to thank my graphics guy Graham Davis for this incredible lettering work he does, and he did the assist on the tender striping,…..that was a bear and very delicate!….if y’all NYC aficionados would critique the work, I’d be more than happy to hear your thoughts, ….this locomotive we believe is as accurate as can be made from this diecast model,….reference page 241 ( lower picture ) of Alvin Stauffer & Edward May’s book “ Thoroughbreds” ….time to hang the gingerbread back on her and see what we got,…we just finished the tender tonight, and wanted to show the “sneak peek” of what we see!….I’m loving it!!
Pat
So, I’m interested in knowing how this color came about? It looks more “correct” (aka darker) than the Lionel dark gray version, as I interpret the prototype photos as a glossy, near black.
thanks!
- Mario
@harmonyards posted:Dave & Mark,…thanks for the kind comments,….a few noteworthy points about Sid’s paint job on his CV,….as most of y’all know, this is not a rattle can job, I worked with my DuPont rep and members of the NYCHS to develop what popular consensus amongst NYC modelers thought the correct shade should be of the CV Hudson,….obviously when Lionel offered the first run of the CV in 96 they missed it by a country mile, then, when they reissued it in a darker shade, most NYC purists felt they went too far,….interesting discussions with society members, and other NYC gurus was a rumor that Lionel used the Vandy colors for the basis of their gunmetal colored standard gauge locomotives….rumors of course, with no way to verify…….anyways, my paint rep really enjoys these “ special projects “ I toss at him because it’s different from the mundane match this Toyota or match that Ford,….so he gets a kick out of doing these jobs,….we went trough a few mixes before settling on this color by popular vote,….and even before I submitted the pics on here, I asked one of our resident NYC gurus ( Pete ) what he thought,…so with his final approval we moved forward,…..my graphics guy studied the lettering on many prototype pics, and after a few proofs, he nailed it……so you see, there’s a lot more to these projects then hoping for close enough,……we have the backing & blessing of some of the brightest minds when it comes to NYC preservation and accuracy,…..neat stuff to research….not sure if I had mentioned all of this when I began the thread,…
Pat
Pat, that CV looks great. Can you please contact me about the Jinty bushings?
Thank you
@CentralFan1976 posted:So, I’m interested in knowing how this color came about? It looks more “correct” (aka darker) than the Lionel dark gray version, as I interpret the prototype photos as a glossy, near black.
thanks!
- Mario
Pat answered that here I thought.
@harmonyards posted:Dave & Mark,…thanks for the kind comments,….a few noteworthy points about Sid’s paint job on his CV,….as most of y’all know, this is not a rattle can job, I worked with my DuPont rep and members of the NYCHS to develop what popular consensus amongst NYC modelers thought the correct shade should be of the CV Hudson,….obviously when Lionel offered the first run of the CV in 96 they missed it by a country mile, then, when they reissued it in a darker shade, most NYC purists felt they went too far,….interesting discussions with society members, and other NYC gurus was a rumor that Lionel used the Vandy colors for the basis of their gunmetal colored standard gauge locomotives….rumors of course, with no way to verify…….anyways, my paint rep really enjoys these “ special projects “ I toss at him because it’s different from the mundane match this Toyota or match that Ford,….so he gets a kick out of doing these jobs,….we went trough a few mixes before settling on this color by popular vote,….and even before I submitted the pics on here, I asked one of our resident NYC gurus ( Pete ) what he thought,…so with his final approval we moved forward,…..my graphics guy studied the lettering on many prototype pics, and after a few proofs, he nailed it……so you see, there’s a lot more to these projects then hoping for close enough,……we have the backing & blessing of some of the brightest minds when it comes to NYC preservation and accuracy,…..neat stuff to research….not sure if I had mentioned all of this when I began the thread,…
Pat
At least it sounds like it in my book.
@jhz563 posted:Pat, that CV looks great. Can you please contact me about the Jinty bushings?
Thank you
Yes,….John, shoot me a message to remind me,….again,….they’re ready,..
Pat
Thanks team, totally missed that whole conversation?
It happens Mario. Several posts I have followed I found myself days and pages behind because they were so active.
My thoughts concerning my "Silver" CV may turn into a paint job seeing how much of a great looking engine Sid's has turned out to be. While the silver may stand out on a layout, I think the dark iron horse may be a better stand out. Having both Lionel CV's it would be extremely interesting to see both side by side once all the stuff would be done with them as well as how they look opposite each other.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:It happens Mario. Several posts I have followed I found myself days and pages behind because they were so active.
My thoughts concerning my "Silver" CV may turn into a paint job seeing how much of a great looking engine Sid's has turned out to be. While the silver may stand out on a layout, I think the dark iron horse may be a better stand out. Having both Lionel CV's it would be extremely interesting to see both side by side once all the stuff would be done with them as well as how they look opposite each other.
I'm with you, I pick up another silver one because they're less expensive and easy to upgrade to a can motor, like I did from Timko, but don't think I'd wild like I did with this one. No inspection lights, chuff generator, super chuffer or fan driven smoke unit; stock TMCC with the stock puffing smoke and just a big speaker.
I am not kidding that I am excited about this! I have been in a modern "funk" for a while now, with both 2nd gen NYC diesels and *GULP* Amtrak. This has rekindled my love for both the NYC steam and running a nice NYC passenger train. With that said, there's good news, @harmonyards can help us with that, as when he finishes painting he can put them side by side with a factory painted Lionel dark gray version...
Photos below my own... Lionel factory painted dark gray
Thanks!
- Mario
I've never been a fan of the bathtub Hudsons. I wouldn't even take one if given for free
But, that is incredible work on that engine. So true artist/modelers on this forum.
@superwarp1 posted:I've never been a fan of the bathtub Hudsons. I wouldn't even take one if given for free
Maybe when I put legacy in this one you will 😉. Good paint, sounds, and features go a long way.
Popular consensus among NYCHS members that I’ve had round table discussions with, feel the color we’ve come up with is as close as correct can be without being there,…..many many topics about this very discussion,…..this was not something I sent them pictures of, I physically put the sample in their hands, then waited for feedback,….Sid’s is actually the 3rd CV I’ve done …the others are outside the forum,….The consensus concerning the light silver CV is obviously too light, and when the big L reissued it, they went too far ( the darker model) …..anyways, this ain’t some color I just dreamt up, there’s a bit of research, and effort that went into it,….
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Popular consensus among NYCHS members that I’ve had round table discussions with, feel the color we’ve come up with is as close as correct can be without being there,…..many many topics about this very discussion,…..this was not something I sent them pictures of, I physically put the sample in their hands, then waited for feedback,….Sid’s is actually the 3rd CV I’ve done …the others are outside the forum,….The consensus concerning the light silver CV is obviously too light, and when the big L reissued it, they went too far ( the darker model) …..anyways, this ain’t some color I just dreamt up, there’s a bit of research, and effort that went into it,….
Pat
I really like the color. I do remember when the second CV came out, my original train store had referred to it as "black Hudson" since it looked so dark. I had originally thought it was black until I got a closer look(so long ago). If anything is made to us abundantly clear Pat, it's that you just don't say "well, it smokes like an engine, looks like an engine, it must be a New York Central Hudson".
The amount of time put into your research pays dividends which is why people come to you for your work. I know things will be as close to can be if not on the mark for what it means to be New York Central.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I really like the color. I do remember when the second CV came out, my original train store had referred to it as "black Hudson" since it looked so dark. I had originally thought it was black until I got a closer look(so long ago). If anything is made to us abundantly clear Pat, it's that you just don't say "well, it smokes like an engine, looks like an engine, it must be a New York Central Hudson".
The amount of time put into your research pays dividends which is why people come to you for your work. I know things will be as close to can be if not on the mark for what it means to be New York Central.
Thanks Dave, …after all the back & forth with the coloring n these CV’s, I found it best to surround myself with talented NYC modelers from the society. Those that discussed the project with me, were all in agreement,…..believe me, it took a couple samples to get there,…..it wasn’t a home run off the bat,…I popped a couple foul balls before we swung for the fences,….😉
Pat
@harmonyards posted:Thanks Dave, …after all the back & forth with the coloring n these CV’s, I found it best to surround myself with talented NYC modelers from the society. Those that discussed the project with me, were all in agreement,…..believe me, it took a couple samples to get there,…..it wasn’t a home run off the bat,…I popped a couple foul balls before we swung for the fences,….😉
Pat
I can only imagine. I do recall Ryan had told me at York one of the times about matching paint from one of the engines. I can't recall what exact engine it was but remember someone criticizing the end color because it didn't look right. Supposedly the "we had a paint chip sample" was to put people's worries to rest that the engine color was right. IIRC that just fueled more debate of how wrong the color was. Whatever engine that one was, it wasn't New York Central and I believe it was something that I was late to the party(meaning before I got back in the hobby) and didn't get it.
After York I'll get with you about my two CV's. Been a long work day, and all I can think about is the sounds of steam whistles from a distance. I don't have to dream or watch a video, Sunday after #60 was blowing hard coming into Pumpkin Junction. That's a new stop where they pop off for a bit, pick pumpkins, and can do a corn maze and other activities.
@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:I can only imagine. I do recall Ryan had told me at York one of the times about matching paint from one of the engines. I can't recall what exact engine it was but remember someone criticizing the end color because it didn't look right. Supposedly the "we had a paint chip sample" was to put people's worries to rest that the engine color was right. IIRC that just fueled more debate of how wrong the color was. Whatever engine that one was, it wasn't New York Central and I believe it was something that I was late to the party(meaning before I got back in the hobby) and didn't get it.
After York I'll get with you about my two CV's. Been a long work day, and all I can think about is the sounds of steam whistles from a distance. I don't have to dream or watch a video, Sunday after #60 was blowing hard coming into Pumpkin Junction. That's a new stop where they pop off for a bit, pick pumpkins, and can do a corn maze and other activities.
One of the times??…..I lost count of the mistakes,…..the Pacemaker cars that are a couple years old now are so far off it’s a sin,….I’m really thinking those cars will get a dose of Pullman green and downgraded to commuter duty,,,,,I have the Kline Pacemaker set which is far superior to the cars in the Legacy set,…but hey,….good news, the oober light gray will make a great primer base for Pullman green…..🙄
Pat
@harmonyards posted:One of the times??…..I lost count of the mistakes,…..the Pacemaker cars that are a couple years old now are so far off it’s a sin,….I’m really thinking those cars will get a dose of Pullman green and downgraded to commuter duty,,,,,I have the Kline Pacemaker set which is far superior to the cars in the Legacy set,…but hey,….good news, the oober light gray will make a great primer base for Pullman green…..🙄
Pat
Pat, I was referring to just one instance, lol. Like I said, can't remember what engine it was, but the excuse of it being the right color was they had a paint chip sample. Of course it still wasn't right. At least the Clown Challenger was the right color, fantasy. 
I think I read that the paint used on the shell of the light color CV did match or was very close to the paint chip but the paint chip was for the lettering on the engine not the main engine color.
@GregM posted:I think I read that the paint used on the shell of the light color CV did match or was very close to the paint chip but the paint chip was for the lettering on the engine not the main engine color.
That would be news to me,….can you think back and find the publication that you read it from?…..that would be good information on this thread for future questions and research materials,…..
Pat
@harmonyards posted:That would be news to me,….can you think back and find the publication that you read it from?…..that would be good information on this thread for future questions and research materials,…..
Pat
I know the old TMB documentary on the Hudson's had a guy from Lionel say it was the cab trim color. Probably old news at this point 😅.
I remember hearing the same story back then but have NO idea where we would find it or supposedly who said that about it being the color of the trim and lettering.
I recall that documentary now too,…..that was second hand information as well,….about as strong as the second hand info I’ve gotten from others,….it’s all got to be taken with a grain of salt……Unfortunately, since there’s nothing left concrete to hang our hats on, we’ll have to do our own research, and agree on what’s right in our own minds,….
Pat
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