Lionel M7 operation issue

Is the worm on the motor slipping or the worm gear on the axle? Hard to believe the worm is slipping. These are typically an interference fit and very difficult to remove.  If it is the worm then a new motor should fix it. That setup is used on almost all the starter set engines and I have never seen one coming loose.

Pete

Motor car will run on its own but when adding 2 - 6 cars the motor sits there and spins. Will not turn the truck gears.

I have it apart but don't know how to remove the motor from the truck?

What is the Lionel number for the power car? 6-xxxxx

                       Lionel 6-30114- M7 LIRR Commuter Set

l.I. Commuters are very unhappy with the delays...…………. 

I haven't worked on one of these but would guess the key to remove the motor is this motor mount. You should see two screws, either side of the motor that hold it to the truck through the frame. The motor will be secured to the mount by two smaller screws visible when you lift the motor out. My money is still on either of the two gears on the intermediate shaft in the truck. Either the worm gear or spur gear near the wheels.

motor mount:

Pete

Thank you Pete. I will get back to it as time permits. 

I agree with Pete that it would be the worm gear not the worm on motor. It seems though that it it was the worm gear it would be slipping all the time. Are you sure the motor is spinning when under big load or could it simply be humming and not spinning. If that’s the case perhaps a new motor is the resolve. Good luck.

Thanks Rod, motor it is. Wish I could fit a Williams Motor in it. 

SIRT posted:

l.I. Commuters are very unhappy with the delays...…………. 

 

The way the long Island Railroad's service has been lately.... Your engine in it's current state might have a better on time record.

When the RR Museum of Long Island opened the Lionel Visitor Center we ran that set, originally with 6 cars then 5 then 4 then 3. When we got to 2 cars I asked George who was running things if I could take it home to work on it. He wanted to know what I was going to do but I said You don't want to know. George wanted everything Lionel.

I pulled the motor and opened the hole and opened another hole on the other end of the car. I cut a piece of frame from a Williams engine with the mount for the motor and made it a little bigger than the hole in the M7. I put a metal to metal glue for the two frames and it worked well. I did the same for the other end of the car with another motor. I had to cover the second motor and cover some windows.  Since then It has been running well with the 2 Williams motors.

I would suspect lack of lube causing the stress to make a gear slip on the shaft. The side gears in the truck photo look dry. When you have the motor out -put a dab of Red n Tacky in there under the motor. Keep the side gears lubed, also.

For a $67 + $10 shipping  you could add a second motor truck , motor and motor mount and reverse the wires for direction. Add the parts to this motor order - shipping is flat $10. Will the interior prevent this?

I wonder why they don't spline the shaft or rough it up? One more step to manufacturing more expensive, I suppose.

I looked at the newer LionChief subway parts, the motor looks the same with a harness and connector.

Finding a Williams powered engine with close to the same wheelbase would be the best solution. Then install the Lionel shell over the frame. You don't want to even try and do a motor swap. BTDT. You would have to swap worms as most 385 motors come with a larger gear. Then you would have to modify the motor mount as the new motor would cover up the holes that hold the mount to the truck. Hard to believe Lionel would use such a puny motor to try and pull add on cars. It can barely pull the engine alone.

Pete

Fixed –

Took the truck, motor and gears apart for inspection. Everything looked perfect. Re-assembled and the unit works as new. Don’t know what fixed it other than 2 screws that were not quite tight. It will pull 4 cars but with throttle UP, all 6 run again. I guess the key to this set is to acquire another power car for the end of train. I would like to buy one.

I don’t see how people modified them due to the speaker at the other end where another motor might go? This frame, shell design and area to work with is very specific to the item. 

Way to go SIRT. That’s the fun part in this hobby. Fixing the problems that come up. Very satisfying. Maybe that’s where the saying “you’ve got a screw loose” comes from. Enjoy.

I just had a similar issue on the Lionchief M7 Yankees set. It turned out to be the intermediate brass worm gear in the truck spinning freely on its shaft. The gear is press fit onto the splined portion of the shaft, but its not much of a spline. Looks like a tapered hole in the gear, so I'll try turning it around, press fitting it with some epoxy to hold it securely. Probably caused by a youngster trying to push the train along the track.

Think I posted this again on 3-13-19, but who knows how to find a search on it ?

Some years after this original post, the tuck finally failed for good. Inspection showed that a gear split in photos          4 & 5. 

I contacted Lionel and they had a replacement part. Had to replace the entire truck. M-7's have ran great ever since on my remote subway layout. The Grand kids love the easy to operate set especially the doorz.

Here are the old photo's and LIONEL P/N in case you need it...

I have the same set that I upgraded to command.  I really liked all the lighting.

SIRT: After my initial purchase of a MNCR set, I bought a "Christmas Set" for a song.  I changed out the carbody on the Xmas powered unit with that of a MNCR dummy and having a powered unit on each end solved everything.

Here's a photo of the intermediate shaft, bearings and gear from my M7, with the gear slid over to show the shaft spline. The external plastic gear is still OK. As mentioned I'll reverse the worm gear (the hole seems to be tapered), and press it onto the spline with some epoxy to keep it there.

SIRT - Thanks for the part info. Yes, Lionel still has the truck assembly available for $48, but that's a bit much for me to fix this problem.