Sounds tender missing magnet wheel...any workaround...

Couple of things:

#1 a typical Hall effect sensor specifically detects the South pole of a magnet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor

#2 yes, the magnet material is typically magnetized to one or possible more segments of orientation as the wheel/axle rotates. Again, the South Pole being detected as it aligns to the sensor.

Something small like this can be glued to the axle and easily trigger the hall effect sensor (superglue or epoxy)

TRYMAG Tiny Magnets, 360Pcs 3x1MM Small Rare Earth

Ok thanks... hopefully i can give it a try this weekend...

Glue one or two of these to the wheel passing near the hall effect sensor.

Small Neodymium Magnets

ok great...i'll get some of these magnets to try...

One more question...does the diesel hall sensor work the same way? i understand how the chuff will work, but how would the diesel know the speed...just different logic as the magnet passes, or is it totally different? and is it a totally different hall sensor for the diesel sounds

thanks

@davido1224 posted:

ok great...i'll get some of these magnets to try...

One more question...does the diesel hall sensor work the same way? i understand how the chuff will work, but how would the diesel know the speed...just different logic as the magnet passes, or is it totally different? and is it a totally different hall sensor for the diesel sounds

thanks

Pretty much the same idea, on a steam engine, the magnet creates a chuff, as the count of pulses increases, so do the chuffs. On a diesel, the increase in pulses tells the sound to go into ramp up, and thus, the sound of the diesel engine increases in rpm.

Pat

I still seem to be missing something...is there a side of the magnet i need to use and how do i figure that out? seems to be very sporadic when i try to use the magnet to make the chuff.

thanks

@Vernon Barry posted:

#1 a typical Hall effect sensor specifically detects the South pole of a magnet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor

"Quick and easy way to find North and South poles on any unmarked magnet"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYLiuGCPY9c

Also, distance between this new magnet and the sensor could come into play. You might even have to stack 2 of those tiny magnets to bring it near the sensor.

i almost feel like you are pranking me with that youtube ...i'm hoping to try this later...

thanks...

Vernon

On a diesel how does the ramp up sound work when you increase the train breaking on the cab 2 remote? As you increase the braking the turbo sound and smoke ramp up.

Marty

One word of wisdom. Those little Neo magnets may be too strong and saturate the entire area where the hall sensor is. You may have to experiment.

@martind posted:

Vernon

On a diesel how does the ramp up sound work when you increase the train breaking on the cab 2 remote? As you increase the braking the turbo sound and smoke ramp up.

Marty

Serial data commands. I don't claim to know down to the level of what exact command structure looks like in Legacy, but again, the simple answer is you are getting 2 inputs of data.

Suggest deep diving into the Legacy protocol https://ogrforum.com/...-and-wi-fi-protocols

#1 the engine knows the speed of the motors

#2 you get additional command input from serial data.

So maybe stupid question...the sensor is still sporadic ...If i tap magnet on and off the sensor should that keep making the chuff sound?... or is there some type of counting mechanism involved? seems i actually have to swipe the magnet on the top of the sensor and then i get the chuff...but sporadically...

thanks...

@davido1224 posted:

So maybe stupid question...the sensor is still sporadic ...If i tap magnet on and off the sensor should that keep making the chuff sound?... or is there some type of counting mechanism involved? seems i actually have to swipe the magnet on the top of the sensor and then i get the chuff...but sporadically...

thanks...

Options would be:

Replace the magnet with something different

Replace the sensor

Check the wiring for an intermittent connection

Shop Lionel parts for a bit and go through page after page of searching for a wheelset that matches yours and has a magnet of the correct diameter. https://www.lionelsupport.com/search?keywords=magnet

A few keys ones in the first 6 pages or so that were in stock.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...AT-TREAD-36-W-MAGNET

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...-ANGLE-36-W-MAGNET_2

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ST-ANGLE-36-W-MAGNET

https://www.lionelsupport.com/MAGNET-DOUBLE-POLE

Or buy a whole truck assembly with the wheelset that has a magnet

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...LR-W-MAGNET-W-O-COLL

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...PLER-W-COLL-W-MAGNET

So you do have the magnet wheel? Be sure the magnet wheel is directly above the sensor. use small washers on the axle ends if needed. Check to see if there is a clearance issue with the sensor. There should be only a hair and a half between the magnet and sensor. The sensor could also be defective. I doubt the magnet if present is the problem.

Ok thanks all...seems it was my spacing...i wrapped black electrical tape around axel to build up the layers and then added the magnet under last layer of tape...works pretty well now...and actually looks very close to the "real" thing now...

@Vernon Barry posted:

a typical Hall effect sensor specifically detects the South pole of a magnet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect_sensor

Vernon...

I read through your reference re Hall effect sensors.  I found no mention of magnetic polarity ("specifically detects the South pole of a magnet") and orientation thereof playing a significant or essential role in the operation of the Hall effect sensor.

Can you elaborate, please?

I do, however, see mention of operational problems if the magnetic field is too strong, underscoring Chuck"s possible caveat re Nd magnets in this application.

I've encountered hit-or-miss situations with this sensor several times.  It may well be a magnetic field strength problem.  Next time I run across this problem, I think I'll experiment with some of the Nd mini magnets as others have suggested.

But I wonder that the sporadic operation could sometimes be a series electrical issue (IOW, dirty contacts) in the power pickups...dirty wheels/axles/track, oxidized copper axle pickups, carpet fibers, pet hair, combinations thereof, etc.?  I've had some success in spraying electrical contact cleaner on the truck axle pickups, cleaning the wheels, checking for fibers and dirt at all the contact points/lines.  Not necessarily a panacea, but in some cases it's helped quite a bit.  If the magnetic field is marginal...at best..., perhaps a bit of bad ol' contact dirt in the circuit daisy-chain could be just the sporadic nemesis to gnash the teeth!

Just a thought...

KD

@dkdkrd posted:

Vernon...

I read through your reference re Hall effect sensors.  I found no mention of magnetic polarity ("specifically detects the South pole of a magnet") and orientation thereof playing a significant or essential role in the operation of the Hall effect sensor.

Having worked with the hall effect sensors in robotics, 3D printing, and many other sensing applications for what feels like an eternity, I thought that fact (hall effect generally senses the south pole of a magnet) was common knowledge.

Sometimes just best to go to a sensor manufacturer and get their info https://www.allegromicro.com/e...ect-sensor-ic-basics

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: How do I orient the magnet relative to the Hall device?

A: The magnet south pole is directed towards the branded face of the device package. The branded face is where you will find the identification markings of the device, such as partial part number or date code.

@Vernon Barry posted:

Having worked with the hall effect sensors in robotics, 3D printing, and many other sensing applications for what feels like an eternity, I thought that fact (hall effect generally senses the south pole of a magnet) was common knowledge.

Well, if you worked with Hall effect sensors for many years, it probably would seem like common knowledge to you.  However, many folks here haven't spent their life in electronics.

Does anyone know if there is a different hall sensor that is used by the Steam and diesel sounds? or can you use the same one?

thanks

@davido1224 posted:

Does anyone know if there is a different hall sensor that is used by the Steam and diesel sounds? or can you use the same one?

The sensor is the same.

I printed my own magnet cams for triggering reed switches. I’m sure something like this could Gauss up your Hall sensor.