Steam Loco’s Class & Marker light colors

Bob, I'm gonna take a wild guess and say clear...that's (until someone who really knows answers) my final answer

Bob, your saying clear for all positions of the classification lights. What about the tenders markers?

Most steam locomotives wouldn't even display markers on the tender in normal service as the tender is not the "end of train."

The only reason a steam locomotive would display markers on the tender is if it was running light or in pusher service. and more times than not in daylight hours would have a red flag in the knuckle instead.

Rusty

Rusty, that's true. But my question is for our models in particular...no marker jewel or light treatment would just be an incomplete appearance in my view. I feel the need to install something appropriate. Likely clear and green on the class lights, and red in the markers since none of them will actually be lit as if to denote status per the prototypes usage. Still looking for common consensus on this.

Thanks

Bob

Class lights are not lit if the engine is pulling a regular scheduled train unless it has another section following in which case green would be displayed. If there are three sections of the same scheduled train, the first two will each display green and the last section will not have any color displayed. If the train is an extra it will display white. The same color displays are done with flags. So, if your engine is going to be in normal service without sections following or pulling an extra, a muted clear would probably be what you want.

As mentioned above, tenders generally did not carry marker lights unless the engine was running light without a caboose. Markers indicate the end of a train movement.

The Pennsy had red marker lights attached to the pilot beam of the locomotive which I believe were lit when the engine was running light backwards or perhaps backing or pushing a train in reverse. I'll let any PRR experts clarify that one. I'm not sure about other railroads doing this but there may have been some that did which I don't know about.

At least, that's the practice I've always heard.

Bob, I think the other guys gave some pretty good replies.

I asked this question a while back when contemplating adding them to my Railking 2-8-0 tender.  In the end I added them cause they look cool, but the file I'm using doesn't have the LMK button to turn them on/off so they're on all the time (except for now cause I broke one of the LEDs this past weekend).

Yes a clear facing forward, what about the sides? Green perhaps? Then tender red facing rear and both sides? Bearing mind none of these small lights are being illuminated, a simple jewel or MV lens with be all I install.

Thanks

Bob

The class lights, obviously on the front of the locomotive, face forward and generally did hot have side facing lenses. However, if you really want to have a side facing lens, I suggest that you make the side facing piece the same color as the forward facing piece, i.e. "white" for a train running "EXTRA".

Also, if you really want to install ANY color pieces into the tender's rear marker lamps, then "red" would be the better choice.

For models, I use either clear jewels or green.  Once in a while I will use hollow class lamps with tiny bulbs in them.  The very best marker lamps were the ones K- Line puton that   little switcher, but I had mine specially cast to receive the jewels.  That way they sparkle while on the shelf.

OK Guys,

I'm doing this from memory and without notes, so hang on tight.

Marker and class light usage varied over time and slightly from railroad to railroad. My knowledge is limited to the PRR so I will reference their practice as it relates to model locomotives (and tenders).

Class lights were usually carried high on the smokebox front. PRR lights were the clawfoot style where the lenses could be rotated to change the color of the lamp. The lenses were clear (white) and green. An extra train would have the white lights to the front and the green lense to the side. A "section following" train would have the green lense to the front and the clear lense to the side. A regularly scheduled train with no sections following would have no class lights lit. On a model locomotive it would be best to have the white lense (or jewel) to the front and the green light (or jewel) to the side. This way you are just running a "regular" train. If the markers (on the model) are lit all the time (like most Sunset models) then you are running whatever the marker says it is, unless you can turn them off. In Sunset's case they usually have green

always illuminated, facing front, so you are always running a train with a second section following. Not a common prototype, especially in later years.

Marker lights were located on the pilot beam and were the "clawfoot style as well. They consisted of a red lense to the front and amber lenses to the side. The red was illuminated as the locomotive was backing up or was pushing a train in reverse as a helper engine. If the locomotive took a siding while operating in reverse, to allow another train to pass, the amber lenses were displayed to the front of the locomotive to indicate to the on-coming train that they were safely in a siding.  

The PRR eventually did away with class lights, but I'm not sure when. The modernized PRR steam engines had their much smaller marker lights in the location where the class lights used to be. These were the small round "bullseye" red markers or the slightly larger "tombstone" style. They displayed red only when the locomotive was backing up, never when going forward. They also did not have the "amber" option as described above.

Tender marker lights were the same arrangement as described for the Locomotive pilot beam mounted markers. "Clawfoot style markers mounted on the tender deck in the rear corners. The contained the red lense to the rear and amber lenses to the side. They were only illuminated if the locomotive was running alone, or was the rearmost helper on a train. The amber lense was used as described above, when the locomotive took a siding and was stopped, in the clear.

The most practical application for model tender markers would be the red lens facing to the rear and not illuminated. Again most Sunset engines have the reds lit even with a train in tow. I guess this comes from the 3-rail influence to whom they cater.

Anyway, I hope this helps and I'm sure it will cause more questions that it answers.

Please remember there were exceptions to the prototype applications, depending on the railroad and the era.    

Buzz...great info! Since I am modeling PRR your data was specific to my need. I appreciate your complete treatment of my question. I knew a Pennsy guy would eventually jump in here....

Bob

I remember that I have a 1910 rule book for the RR that I model; Cumberland Valley RR.  Several pages or rules on lighting and combinations with flags for all sorts of situations, locations, time of day, etc. 

I'd suggest that if someone wanted to get serious on prototype operation and detailing a specific engine for a specific use that they snare a copy of the analogous book for the RR that they model.  Could be educational!

"The class lights, obviously on the front of the locomotive, face forward and generally did hot have side facing lenses. However, if you really want to have a side facing lens, I suggest that you make the side facing piece the same color as the forward facing piece, i.e. "white" for a train running "EXTRA"."

"Class lights were usually carried high on the smokebox front. PRR lights were the clawfoot style where the lenses could be rotated to change the color of the lamp. The lenses were clear (white) and green. An extra train would have the white lights to the front and the green lense to the side. A "section following" train would have the green lense to the front and the clear lense to the side."

(Wasn't sure how to capture the quotes.)  I have a set of loco class lights with clear lenses on both sides and a set of green interior lenses that could be flipped down with an external paddle.  Not sure from what RR, possibly MoPac.  But just wanted to demonstrate that the colors would be the same front and side in this instance.  Hope this helps a little.

I seem to recall reading* that the PRR did away with them in the early 1930's [ 1932-34 ].  This is strictly from memory.

Best, SZ

*Probably in a 'Railway Age';  my collection of them began in 1931.