I'm replicating a Lionel postwar display (using tubular track) and want to be able to run Marx trains with the single-reduction gear motors (aka fat wheels). Is there a good substitute for Lionel's 022 switches (which derail the Marxes constantly)?
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Nothing in O gauge. Lionel 1121 027 switches are going to be the closest for your requirement.
Call Steve at Ross Custom Switches. He may have tested his switch with the Marx.
Another thought is prewar AF O gauge switches will also work, but their radius is 042, not 031.
I second giving Steve at Ross Switches a call, their tinplate switches might do the trick, they have pretty big tolerance from what I have seen of them.
I don't think the Ross switches will work. The guard rails will catch the drive gear. And they are not available in 031 to fit the footprint for his display.
Chuck Sartor posted:I don't think the Ross switches will work. The guard rails will catch the drive gear. And they are not available in 031 to fit the footprint for his display.
Thanks Chuck. I wasn’t aware of that.
NNJ Railfan posted:I'm replicating a Lionel postwar display (using tubular track) and want to be able to run Marx trains with the single-reduction gear motors (aka fat wheels). Is there a good substitute for Lionel's 022 switches (which derail the Marxes constantly)?
Which display are you replicating?
Marx made powered switches (#1590 I believe) that would be 034. You could probably play with the track geometry a bit to fit them in with 031 or super 0 (036). You could also add insulated sections adjacent to the switch to gain the auto non derail feature.
JD2035RR posted:NNJ Railfan posted:I'm replicating a Lionel postwar display (using tubular track) and want to be able to run Marx trains with the single-reduction gear motors (aka fat wheels). Is there a good substitute for Lionel's 022 switches (which derail the Marxes constantly)?
Which display are you replicating?
Marx made powered switches (#1590 I believe) that would be 034. You could probably play with the track geometry a bit to fit them in with 031 or super 0 (036). You could also add insulated sections adjacent to the switch to gain the auto non derail feature.
These are 027. The later 034 are plastic bodied & if I remember correctly, won't clear the fat gear wheel.
Chuck Sartor posted:Another thought is prewar AF O gauge switches will also work, but their radius is 042, not 031.
Also you could look into Ives prewar switches. The only thing is they will be manual switches.
Please let me try to clear up some misinformation on this thread...
Lionel 1121's are O27 gauge. They don't have tall flange guides, but based on my experience with an early Marx 333, they will probably cause your single-reduction locos to derail.
Ross O31 switches should conform to the geometry of Lionel O22's. You may have to cut off some of the excess length. But I can't personally vouch for whether they will allow Marx locos to operate without derailing.
The plastic-bodied Marx O34 switches (not pictured so far) will work great with single reduction locos. But their geometry is different, so it might be tougher to integrate them into your ovals. They'll take up more space, and -surprise- Lionel locos don't like them! So I advise against that option unless you're ONLY running Marx.
The 1950 Marx switches pictured by JD2035RR are O27. They will work fine, but obviously a little sharper curve that might cause trouble for big Lionel locos like the 746, TrainMaster, etc. The switch motor housings are pretty low. If you're not running any large locos that demand O31, this is the way I would go.
Your last option is just replace or remotor your single-reduction Marx. There were revised versions of the 4- and 6-wheel steam loco motors that came out circa 1956 specifically to address this problem. You should be able to find these on a popular auction site, or in a junk box at any large train meet. Your locos will run better, and slower too. My $.02.
You can also do what we did on our club layout - the outermost track has no switches at all. You can run anything on that track.
I only have one dual reduction, and it doesn't perform half as well as the SRs do, but does run at a slower max speed if that is a goal. (i.e., no guarantees IMEx)
My SR motors do not like the plastic Marx turnouts much either (just a crap sw. imo). Lionel pilot trucks derail, nearly every pass. It is because of spring loaded guide rails which has to be pushed down by the wheels to open that path up wider for the fat wheels. Great idea that needed more design finesse to work well and they never received it. I think "scale" Marx steam pilot trucks likely have less vertical travel ability or heavier springs for downforce than Lionel.
The early Marx 0-27 are GREAT though. The center pivot rail design (4-moving points on one simple assembly) provides a gapless set of outer rails. Smoother than any other turnout I've used, GG, Ross, Lionel, Atlas, or Marx. Add a few pins to close and straighten the center rail path and exit's short rails and the Lionels can creep across better than on most of Lionel's turnouts. (Pingman gave me a set (still looking for that "special thank you" gift for payback 🤔)).
How well they work blew me away. If I started again at square one in 0-27, I'd only buy those old Marx turnouts.
You do have to make your own anti-derail tracks for the 2 exits if you desire the feature. (make 2 issolated rail triggers on plain track. Real simple stuff)
You can see the pins I added below. 3 pins, one is on the strait short rail, but only sticks out 1/16", 2 are in the center rails 1-Marx pin/1-Lionel pin. This helps rollers and small shoes across, long shoes are ok as is . Even K-line's tiny dia. rollers work now.
With one 0-27 curve only(turnout), then a return to a larger dia. off that, your dual truck loco's will be ok if the truck can pivot enough. Steam with 8+ drivers, MIGHT bind on the one length of curve. Every other curve being bigger you can average the diameter. E.g.,.27", 31",27",31"= 29" "wavey" half circle.
A Czech. company called ETS makes turnout that will pass a fat wheel. (One N. American distributor only. The contact info is on OGRF in a few threads [try," ets, distributor, Czechoslovakia/Czech, fat wheel" as search terms HERE ... I can't right now]) I don't think the they make under 40-something-inch diameter, but I'd check the Czechs out and write that check out... wearin' houndstooth. 😏
Other members here have claimed good quality too. Try looking around the site with a translating browser. Nice, interesting tin equipment. I have a MOW VW-Beetle ETS made and imported by MTH. Best running modern age critter I've ran, 98% metal and VERY sturdy; I bet I could stand on it. It can pull one cast, 12 wheel, blunt axle, flat wheel crane car.(heavy) (I slipped the crane's hook over the roof and onto the Bug's front bumper one day for a funny picture and tried running it. The real Bugs abilities were underestimated too. Most folk used the motor at too low an rpm, they will turn 4200 rpm literally all day, every day; and 2000 rpm crusing like American cars, kills or overheats them. 2300+ rpm bottom end limit... Old man Porshe had designed the old motor. 😉
Ross does make an 031 turnout.
Sorry for the lack of focus.
BTW, Ross switches are the only turnout I would use for 3r. Look close at the contour of the leading edge of the points. Check out the feathering of the tope edge as it lays snug against the stock rail. view the razor sharp entrance edge which makes it hard for any flange to "pick" the point.
I use Ross turnouts without any spring, motor or retaining device controlling the points on reverse loops with long display trains for hours at a time and have never experienced a picked point or point caused derailment. The points float dependably side to side resetting perfectly against the stock rail hour after hour.
You can spend more on your switches with less of a selection but you will never get anything better than a Ross switch.
Adriatic was pretty darn close. The Czech company I remember though is Merkur Toys.
They closest match they show is an R760mm (O-60), Manual:
https://eshop.merkurtoys.cz/ko...ava-r760-rucni-i839/
Mike
Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Adriatic was pretty darn close. The Czech company I remember though is Merkur Toys.
They closest match they show is an R760mm (O-60), Manual:
https://eshop.merkurtoys.cz/ko...ava-r760-rucni-i839/
Mike
Wow! Those look nice. I wonder how much they are in USD.
I've seen someone on this forum who had bought them before.
Then I found this link:
https://ogrforum.com/...kur-trains-and-track
It might help.
Mike
I didn't realize Ross did 031, but same problem, guard rails will derail Marx locos.
ETS is another Czech company. Google is so screwed. The translation page isn't working. I get Czech no matter what I try to traslate it to.
I may have made a mistake between them, but I don't think so. "Electroliner"(R.I.P.) had some ETS and I think posted on them.
My own search ability is nill today.
The the various post's information above might find the threads though. "Ets, Merkur, turnout, switch, fat wheel, Marx" and "electroliner" in members spot, should do it.
Any realism desire? I'll give it to Ross there if they can hold fat wheel, shoes, and rollers. I still recall some gap stalls on them, though why leaked out of my left ear long ago.
O Line Reproductions, possibly? I have their O-72 switches on my layout and they work great with both prewar tin and modern trains. I'll be glad to try one of my Marx locos on them and report my findings.
John
If the Ross guard rail does not handle a funkie chassis simple adjust the guard rail. Move it, adapt it, what ever. You will simply never do better than Ross for a dependable, available turnout.
I have found replacing or relocating guards were needed to cure unique situations.
If you have a loop of track with all turnouts faceing either towards center of the loop, or facing to the outside of a loop; then you can at least run it one direction only, with the fat wheel against the turnout long rails, but straight path only. It just can't use the deviation exit, only straight, and either clkw or cclkw, not both.
To ilustrate the issue, here is a fat wheel. Most guidrerails simply wont be able to do their job. . I want to say NO guiderail is needed period dot, but I hate to so pessimistic. Remove a guidrail from tracks and your going to have derailments on normal locos. The guides aren't there to be pretty. They are especially needed keep pilot wheels on path when you want to go straight because they like to turn, and to make drivers turn because they like to go straight. (I tried elemination on the plastic Marx and lionel 1122)
There is the possibility of cutting off the last rail sections on the Marx 027 curve out and replacing them with flex track, maybe 0-36, or even hand bent rails to get an 0-31 average. I think many more trains would make 2/3 of an 0-27 curve. Bending tubular track isn't that hard. I've bent 0-27 down to 0-17, 0-19, & 0-21 a few times on a bender made of wood, washers, and some Stanley hardware brackets. (idea supplied by another member)
Replying to an early post, the display I'm replicating is the D-190, a folded dogbone (one end elevated) with three sidings for accessories.
Adriatic, thanks for your advice against cutting out guiderails, you just saved an O-Line Repro switch I was about to test that on!
Blue Comet, the guiderails on the O-Line Repros are too close to allow Marx's fat wheels through.
I may try out Ted S' suggestion to re-motor the locos. One of my M10005 engines with the later motor design is dead, so it's a good candidate for experimentation.
Just as an FYI, I have a couple of Sakai switches that were occasionally sold with Marx sets lying. I'll see if they're 031; even though they're reliable they're quite ugly and would not remotely blend in with the layout.
NNJ Railfan posted:Just as an FYI, I have a couple of Sakai switches that were occasionally sold with Marx sets lying. I'll see if they're 031; even though they're reliable they're quite ugly and would not remotely blend in with the layout.
Those Sakai switches are 027. I like them myself.
Oh yeah, duh, my bad!
And it's funny when those directional indicators get loose and occasionally spin off when the switch snaps.
I'd like to see the Sakai. I have a 90° by them that is definitely fat wheel friendly.
Thor's train site says no Lionel's will work and reminded me that accessory and uncoupling tracks are also an issue.
(I can squeeze by the uncoupler track "eyes" with a bump and occasional derail or stall; not perfect, but I put up with it. My other flanges will likely crack before the gear wears from it, and it may not effect engagement anyhow.
I really wish someone would cast new Marx toy-steam fat wheel drivers. (very brittle to pull)
This ebay listing shows them clearly:
Sorry for the delay, but I tried a Marx loco on the O-Line switches and no such luck: derailed.
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